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Game optimization/CPU bottlenecks GPU

Jedi89Jedi89 Member Posts: 7

Hello,

I have a question to the devs. Are you working on the game optimization as after V1.0 and further updates, game performs very badly on any kind of hardware. I mean even strongest hardware performs insufficiently comparing to possibilities or other UE4 games.


General problem is underutilization or not proper utilization of CPU causing bottleneck to GPU and huge FPS drops during heavy load, which is not present in most of the UE4 games.


I think this is the most pressing problem which may drive old and new players away. Performance is a kind of showcase of a game and Squad is not the newest title (2015) with not the best graphic on the market.

Comments

  • soraflairsoraflair Member Posts: 55 ★★

    Although I don't have an official answer, I can tell you to check out their Trello board.

    This is their official roadmap for new updates on squad, and what they are working on in each new build:

    https://trello.com/b/12AMfhIv/squad-roadmap

  • soraflairsoraflair Member Posts: 55 ★★

    Update: I can't edit my post however I did find this as it relates to V3 (The next build of squad.)


    Force Enable Distant Shadows on Low Settings

    This requires significant optimizations to the way shadows in the distance work. Will need to be carefully monitored with consideration given towards performance issues.

    This change will be client-side only, and may be released on an experimental branch and tested on live Squad for a variety of systems to ensure acceptable performance prior to full release.

    This is also linked to the Graphics Settings & Options Overhaul.


    Source:

    https://trello.com/c/7WN4DP5T

  • Jedi89Jedi89 Member Posts: 7

    Hello I checked every possible forum/roadmap/reddit/discord including trello and unfortunatelly I heaven't found any information related to game optimization or described by me CPU underutilization causing GPU bottleneck. It is not present in other games except HLL from 20.12.2020, which supprisingly since always 100 players game.


    Unfortunately I don't see the connection between "Force Enable Distant Shadows on Low Settings" and optimizations.


    The best example is performance downgrade after releasing V1 in 09.2020 so was changing from 80 to 100 players was tested in terms of performance before release? It was unfortunatelly not and caused problems for lot of players forcing some of them to change for the newest CPUs for this not the newest game.


    Thank you for your explanation atempt, nevetheless this is questions for the devs as I can't find the answer anywhere and even e-mails exchange with support doesn't brought any answer. There is no better place to ask this kind of questions than thier own forum right? 


    They probably need some time 😉.

  • ThiagolpvThiagolpv Member Posts: 22 ★★

    I agree with Jedi and I have to say SQUAD looks like abandoned by Devs.

    I see all the time a 15 ton armor (BTR) rolling or flying after hit a little stone, small trees stoping a 50 ton tank, AP penetring while close angle and other inumerous bugs posted in SQUAD Official Discord.

    When 100 players was lauched, it was noticeble the performance downgrade and here we are.

    No matter which hardware you have, some time, you will get poor CPU performance.

    I love this game, but we aren't receiving need attention.

  • ThiagolpvThiagolpv Member Posts: 22 ★★

    Add:

    When playing armored, the command position still has the camera shake bug;

    MEA Simir Jeep still understructible;


    Do Devs play SQUAD? Do they play armored vehicles?

  • MunsterMunster Member Posts: 17 ★★

    I think map design has a huge impact on performance. Falluja for example performs the worst. There is an area around the crane when my frames often drop from 60ish to 4 FPS (and I am on a 3900X, 2080 Super, 64GB RAM, NVMe). I think in order to improve performance they would have to redo alot of their maps.

  • koschileinkoschilein SpaceMember Posts: 7 ★★
    edited May 3

    That sounds like an issue off your settings / configuration though to be honest, are you sure you are running your ram on their overclocked profil?

    I found out myself that you need really fast ram + a fast cpu to have good / stable frames.

    Your hardware is amlost like mine and I never dip below 50 fps on falluja in maxed out 1440p

    Even on my old system I never had under 20 fps, so 4 fps seems like there is something not running right on your machine :O


    EDT: Oh and of course it had to be asked... did you "clear cached user data" in the settings after the last update?

  • MunsterMunster Member Posts: 17 ★★

    Ram profile is set to 3200Mhz. I haven't played fallujah in some time. It might be different now, but I agree, something is off. On other maps I often get 100+ FPS.

  • OWI_KrispyOWI_Krispy Vancouver, B.C.Posts: 56 Community Manager

    Finding opportunities to optimize the game is certainly something the team is always exploring. More importantly, is finding new solutions for older systems that could help us remove parts of the "tech debt" that has accrued over the years since Early Access and beyond. There's no definitive update currently scheduled which is aimed at improving the optimization, but that could change once we have finalized some internal planning.

    Another thing the team is looking at is the current backlog of issues, including some of the legacy bugs which are mentioned in the patch notes when we release a build. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to see that list get shorter, but it would also likely improve performance for many people when this is tackled.

  • Jedi89Jedi89 Member Posts: 7

    Hello,


    Let me answer partially:

    "Finding opportunities to optimize the game is certainly something the team is always exploring."

    This is some general statement that unfortunatelly doesn't mean anything. To prove that I can say that team wasn't exploring opportunity to optimize when the game was released out of "Early Access" and performance dropped in 09.2020. This was more than a half year ago... V1.0 brought de-optimization instead of performance increase.


    "More importantly, is finding new solutions for older systems that could help us remove parts of the "tech debt" that has accrued over the years since Early Access and beyond. There's no definitive update currently scheduled which is aimed at improving the optimization, but that could change once we have finalized some internal planning."

    That is my biggest concern. We are today May (05.2021) 8 months after V1.0 release and roadmap remains without update. One could think that game optimization after V1.0 release should be priority for devs as in reality this should be done before full release. This drive us to the conclusion that V1.0 was only marketing move and game never came out of "Early Access".

    "Another thing the team is looking at is the current backlog of issues, including some of the legacy bugs which are mentioned in the patch notes when we release a build. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to see that list get shorter, but it would also likely improve performance for many people when this is tackled."

    To the point. I asked several times including my e-mail exchange with OWI support about (underulitization of CPU, GPU, poor performance issue), whether team can officialy announce it and make it as a kind of priority, because problem touches literally everyone and everyone can agree that it might even drive old and new players away.


    That's the part of the answer I received:

    "Hello,

    The team is still looking into the CPU/GPU utilization issue as it does not appear to be affecting the majority of players so it was not added to public known issue lists. ..."


    The question is, why this wasn't even added to "v2.0 Known Issues" or "Legacy Known Issues". This send the message that devs do not recognize underutilization of CPU cause GPU bottleneck as an issue.


    Well known Logi Bug was presented in V2.4 released 25.03.2021. In one of the reddit posts Fuzzhead said that they got 5 attempts last week (17 week of 2021), to fix this issue and all failed. I mean it really sound strange that developers of the game don't know how to fix thier own game code... :D.


    All of this drives me to conclusion that with this speed of light of bug fixes and changes, when we can expect optimization issue to be done? End of 2022? I'm pretty sure that you're guys gonna push of content release for V3.0, instead of bug fixes and optimizations.


    No ones know what you guys working on and let's be honest, it's known fact that Australian Army mod was bought from modders 2 years ago and it just need tweaks. Also amphibious content is some kind of basic change with the vehicles and mechanic of floating is also basic mechanics of Unreal Engine.


    What are you guys working on then?

  • ArdurasArduras Member Posts: 3 Civilian

    On an R7 2700X and a 1080 TI and I still drop to 20-40 FPS on max player count servers. The game isn't demanding graphics wise at all, my 1080 TI can draw in 4-10ms even on my 144hz 2K monitor.

    The biggest killer of FPS is player count (even if they're nowhere near you, not rendered, and generally irrelevant) and vehicles (likewise, doesn't matter if they're sitting in main base or actually shooting at you, they'll tank FPS.)

    Had a reddit post where I outlined my FPS going from like fps cap of 150 to 60 and the only difference was the vehicles spawned in on the training range meanwhile I'm staring at the wall of a tent, nothing demanding rendered or even piloted/crewed.

    Can't use launch options for FPS or INI Tweaks either, -sm4/-d3d10 won't start anymore.

  • ArdurasArduras Member Posts: 3 Civilian

    Apparently you can't edit posts on this forum? Anyway, if I can find anything in stock I'll see if I can get an R7 5800X in June with a new x570 board. Just transfer my 16 GB of ram and 11GB 1080 TI over to the new board since it's just the CPU that squad **** on.

  • internetzspacezshipzinternetzspacezshipz Member Posts: 5 Dev

    Well, the whole logi bug thing is actually an Unreal Engine bug:

    https://issues.unrealengine.com/issue/UE-95295

    So we're basically trying to fix someone else's problems, not our own. 🙂

  • OWI_JhettOWI_Jhett Member Posts: 1 Dev

    Hello, I am working as a systems designer on Squad. I can't speak fully to the CPU side of optimizations currently, but I have been heavily involved in an ongoing optimization for several areas in the game affecting the GPU. Since V2, we have rolled out various GPU optimizations already, and there are more to come including far shadow optimization, distance fields and shader optimization.

  • Jedi89Jedi89 Member Posts: 7

    Wait, am I missing something. The last update of Unreal Engine in Squad was May 6, 2020 to version 4.23, right? The Logi Bug was presented in Squad V2.4 released 25.03.2021 and this bug wasn't existing in Squad never before right? It looks like problem appeared after V2.4 release by simple logic. What am I missing 😉?



    "Since V2, we have rolled out various GPU optimizations already, and there are more to come including far shadow optimization, distance fields and shader optimization."

    But it doesn't increase performance FPS in game, in fact after V1.0 as I mentioned before FPS decreased and after V2.0 decreased even more. On top of that almost every player report that changing Video settings in game doesn't decrease or increase performance (FPS) in game noticeably. It's because of CPU which bottlenecks GPU.

    In this case it's difficult to believe that GPU optimizations will bring significant increase in FPS as GPU is bottlenecked by CPU and in my case utilized in 30-50% while heavy load.


    I know it because I can see the difference when I put my CPU clock on 3.2 Ghz and 3.6 GHz. Increasing the clock speed reduce bottleneck to GPU.


    "...I can't speak fully to the CPU side of optimizations currently, but I have been heavily involved in an ongoing optimization for several areas in the game affecting the GPU..."


    Thank you for your reply, but unfortunately it doesn't answer my question.


    Problem in Squad as I described is related to CPU underutilization/bad utilization causing bottleneck to GPU. It's not hardware issue as it's not the problem in any other game except Hell Let Loose since 20.12.2020, not before.


    The question still remains. Are you guys working on CPU optimizations because CPU is not utilized properly and causing bottleneck to GPU significantly decreasing performance (FPS)?


    BR

  • DesvergerDesverger Member Posts: 12 Civilian

    Optimization does not always mean performance enhancing.

  • DesvergerDesverger Member Posts: 12 Civilian

    optimization

    [ɒptɪmʌɪˈzeɪʃ(ə)n]

    NOUN

    1. the action of making the best or most effective use of a situation or resource.


  • internetzspacezshipzinternetzspacezshipz Member Posts: 5 Dev

    Yes, you are actually missing something. I don't know if you've seen the 'missing turret' bug that happens every now and then, or the bug where you enter a vehicle and then 'die' and get sent back to the spawn screen... Those are the same bug as this one, and it seems to have metastasized into the resource/ammunition components, while it previously was not. It doesn't appear to be anything we actually changed.

  • Jedi89Jedi89 Member Posts: 7

    Thank you for self explaining, this safe some of my time. Optimization of CPU means "making the best or most effective use of a (in this case) resource."


    Let's see what devs gonna say :)

  • Jedi89Jedi89 Member Posts: 7

    I don't understand. You are using Unreal Engine of which you are customer for Epic since the game has been monetized? I belive this is your right to ask for support if you belive that problem is on Unreal Engine side. I don't know how this relationship works so I'm asking, but I'm again trying to understand this with simple logic.


    "...Those are the same bug as this one, and it seems to have metastasized into the resource/ammunition components..."


    The term that you used, metastasized it is related to biological organisms that are actually living and changing evolving under 10000000 of different factors. We can consider biological organism as a some kind of extremally complicated computer but I think is not proper to use this comparision, otherwise I must ask you this question:

    Is your own game and code that you created a living organism that you don't have control on? :D


    I also believe we deviate too much from the main thread of underutilized CPU that bottlenecks GPU causing FPS drops.


    Still waiting for devs to answer this as I believe, heavily important question.

  • ThiagolpvThiagolpv Member Posts: 22 ★★

    Why is it so hard to be objective?

  • internetzspacezshipzinternetzspacezshipz Member Posts: 5 Dev

    As I mentioned in the previous post, Epic knows about the bug, but will not fix it until UE5, so we're on our own in that sense. Epic answers to no one hahah.

    As for the use of "metastasized", I feel it is apt, since any one developer on the project does not know everything about the project, and the project is massive, so one tiny change can affect something on entirely the other side. Making games is a complex situation, and it would be good to keep that in mind. We do the best we can with what we're given.

  • Jedi89Jedi89 Member Posts: 7

    I wrote this few posts before but seems it was forgotten:


    The last update of Unreal Engine in Squad was May 6, 2020 to version 4.23, right? The Logi Bug was presented in Squad V2.4 released 25.03.2021 and this bug wasn't existing in Squad never before right?


    i think it's time to stop blaming Epic for bug that appeared after your Update.


    Announcing to the public that you as company don't know what caused problem and inability to fix it in almost 2 months is I believe highly unprofessional. Early access excuse, small studio excuse but I will tell you something, no one cares 😉. You're professionals or not. At the end of the day you're company that sell product, I'm customer.

    Company that asking customer for indulgence with smallest things look silly and as I mentioned, unprofessional.

    If one day I will become known/recognizable owner of company I will have to deal with critics/problems, that's how it works.

    Here I would like to remind something with previous post:

    I also believe we deviate too much from the main thread of underutilized CPU that bottlenecks GPU causing FPS drops.


    Still waiting for devs to answer this as I believe, heavily important question.

    Are you not worried about Battlefield 6 release...?

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