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Using LAT as an example to explain what's wrong with Persistent Ammo and how it can be fixed.

Bill NyeBill Nye Member Posts: 15

Persistent Ammo was added to the game with the intention of emphasizing how important logistics is. It's a reasonable idea for one side to beat the other because their supply chain was better/ existent, but it's current implementation leaves a lot to be desired. Currently we exist in a feast or famine landscape where you either have ammo and you're having a good time or you're hating life, which definitely "Encourages" better logistics.

But what if there was a way to both have an enjoyable gameplay loop while also still emphasizing proper logistics?

Enter the current light-anti tank kit. Now the light anti tank kit currently exists as a way to track/engine and disable vehicles to allow anyone else that can actually do anything to get the kill. Only being equipped with one round means that learning the kit is very frustrating and rearming is a pain. Light Anti-Tank as its role of anti-tank is currently is a very unfun kit. Most LAT kit players I know enjoy the kit because it possesses frag rounds that are effective and fun to use. When actually doing ones job of destroying armor the gameplay is fire single shot, run to ammo box like a lil b, rinse repeat. Or die rearm at the hab etc... It's a very unsatisfying loop.

The Fix : Now this is quite a big change so it's very unlikely to be implemented but here's the idea.

Update Coalition LAT Kit to 3-4 Heat Round capacity.. Persistent ammo caps out at respawning with one round available. Squad kit limit changed to 1.

Update Unconventionals to 2-3 HEAT round capacity (If keeping the Squad limit of 2)

The effects of this change are obvious, for starters the light Anti-Tank kit now possesses the ability to destroy most light armor! Imagine destroying a lightly armored BTR as a LAT, what a crazy concept. Proper logistics allows the kit to operate offensively, while the reduction in the number of kits, keeps the anti-vehicle capacity of infantry relatively the same. Now when you pick the LAT kit, you aren't just one of two guys mandated to the kit to try and survive heavy armor pressure, you are the Light Anti Tank man, capable of destroying a light armor before resupply and operating for a little bit before being required to run back to the ammo box, which is a pretty unfun thing to do after every shot.

This change is still a minor buff to LAT and a "Nerf" to persistent ammo but it encourages supply lines to enable kits to operate more effectively and have more fun as opposed to forcing them to enter the no fun zone and just making everyone hate life. Proper logistics will still win the game with supplied infantry being more effective than teams without it.

This style of change could be applied to persistent ammo as a whole to honestly improve the system a lot further.

Potential Cons : While overall a pretty good idea it doesn't come without flaws. The most obvious one would be players dying repeatedly to refresh that single rocket they are given. This seems like an acceptable cost though, as dying isn't free and a single LAT rocket in todays vehicle landscape really isn't that impactful besides tracking vehicles. (At the same time additional LAT firepower could allow for a reduction in vehicle track damage just a thought)

The second would be allowing LAT players to misuse the kit harder and fire more HEAT rounds at enemy infantry but with the explosion size of HEAT rounds, that's not really that much of a negative. If you're nailing infantry with HEAT... good job champ.


  • EcchiRevengeEcchiRevenge Member Posts: 528 ★★
    edited June 2022

    Persistent ammo mechanic may be a shoddy approximation of project reality's kit re-request system(because that one drains ammo whether you fired or not and you can lose an important kit for 5 minutes or more depending on where/how you died) but it's there for a reason.

    LAT has same gun(usually) as rifleman, + grenades, it's just as effective at killing infantry without the need for rpg-7 frag(which shouldn't even be in hands of insugents...etc.).

    It represents "just another guy in squad, but with a tube."

    Hilarious how you want blufor to have more tubes when they also have better vehicles. 4 shots of LAT could rival HAT in terms of damage dealt due to different tandem modifier of different vehicles.

    LAT should do more substatial damage to IFVs(for example bradley can take 6 or more shots depending on where they hit, fv432 takes 8-9, warrior can take around 8 when they hit addon armor) like they do to BTR(4 shots kill outright), that's it.

    Respawn meta is already there(if there's no ammo at fob, respawn in main, respawn again on rally...etc.). Dying is free compared to a vehicle kill being at minimum(anything below generally doesn't matter and doesn't need AT weapons) 5 tickets + crew(plus the fact that the vehicle is off the field until respawn timer is up).

    You know what else encourages supply lines? Having rifleman bring you ammo(coincidentally most LAT cost 30 ammo points out of 100ammo). Also, losing kit(or at least all ammo beside the minimum amount of magazine/bandage) when dying so you have to rearm all ammo at fob. (that would also discourage fob spamming because having a ton of ammo in the truck is suddenly important, as well as discourage giveup/respawn meta, but it's too hardcore for squad's casual playerbase)

    If OWI implements the above paragraph on losing all ammo...etc. on death, then having one LAT be able to destroy apc...etc. would be acceptable.

  • thebiglezthebiglez Member Posts: 40 ★★

    i prefer the current system. Its quite fun actually to hunt a vehicle with a rifleman with you to supply you ammo.

  • TartantycoTartantyco Member Posts: 3 Civilian

    LAT Rifleman is not a Rocket Soldier class, it's a rifleman with some AT capability. The LAT is not your primary weapon, the rifle is. I'm not looking for a game with Quake-level rocket spam.

  • Bill NyeBill Nye Member Posts: 15

    I mean the change is designed to only be a slight buff hence 3-4. With 3 only a single kit would be one additional LAT round per squad. As it stands a single extra LAT rocket isn't really that big of a game changer. In addition the amount of LAT on the field shrinks limiting encounters but making them more impactful against light armor. Honestly as a whole this change would likely buff heavy armor, as the only thing you fear is getting tracked, and you're more likely to get tracked in a situation where more AT threats exist on the battlefield.

    Heck you could change it to 2 rounds to keep LAT consistent and it'd just be a net enjoyment bonus with more fire support kit diversity and a LAT kit with a greater focus on being light anti-tank.

    As much fun as being a man with a rifle with a single **** LAW is, you could be having more fun. Insurgent LAT would like to know your location.

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