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OWI, please release a statement on the drastic reduction of TOW-MRAPs on so many layers

Dani3lDani3l Germany/NetherlandsMember Posts: 37

In a recent patch, some OWI mappers removed TOW MRAPs from quite a lot of layers. Please state why you did so, OWI, that MRAP is one of the most fun vehicles in Squad.

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Comments

  • GeebusGeebus Member Posts: 56 ★★

    I'm convinced that the CROW's M-ATV doesn't exist.

  • XXPX1XXPX1 Member Posts: 45 ★★

    I would assume it's because the real Oshkosh M-ATV never really saw a TOW variant.

    The TOW variant is listed on the wikipedia. Here is an article about the TOW variant and here is one on the waybackmachine and here is a photo of it on the showroom floor. But that's all there is; if anyone has more information or pictures of it, I'd love to read/see them.

    As far as I know, it was a prototype variant that never made it pass that stage.

    And for those interested, there is also a single photo of a MILAN ATGM mounted on M-ATVs by the Saudi's, according to wikipedia.

    I'm convinced that the CROW's M-ATV doesn't exist.

    I was just gunning one last night for @ChrisJ on Narva (US vs RUS)

  • TheInvincibleAceTheInvincibleAce Member Posts: 4 Civilian

    As far as I know TOWraps were a casualty of the spandrel, the spandrel is quite frankly, OP compared to the other nation's equivalents, so they removed them from a lot of layers.


    I've fairly regularly 1 manned spandrels and ambushed and killed pairs of enemy tanks, this is next to impossible with the TOWrap due to it's lower rate of fire and the exposed gunner.

  • Doctor HammerDoctor Hammer Member Posts: 23 ★★

    They removed it because of balance, vehicles were too strong and ruined gameplay.

  • Dani3lDani3l Germany/NetherlandsMember Posts: 37

    exist where, irl or in Squad?


    Source please for them having removed it because of "balance"? Other Squad factions have the quite OP Spandrel, so removing TOW MRAP for "balancing" makes 0 sense. On the contrary, 2-3 more TOW MRAPs would make sense, or even 2-3 more Bradleys.

    And since we have Stryker in Squad, I hope we'll soon see M1134 TOW Stryker

  • JulesBJulesB BelgiumMember Posts: 13

    As XXPX1 said the TOW M-ATV probably doesn't exist. They should replace the M-ATV TOW with a Humvee M1045 or M1134 Stryker IMO.

    According to Wikipedia Russia only has 60 Spendrals (They still have a thousand active normal BDRM-2's). These vehicles are a relic of the cold war and it doesn't really make a lot of sense to give them to Russia IMO. Giving them the 9P149 Shturm-S (Spiral) (based on the MTL-B) would make a lot more sense and it would be more balanced as well.

    Giving the spandrel to the unconventional factions makes more sense than giving it to Russia though. They mainly use cold war equipment and they have weak MBT's so giving them the Spandrel can make up for that.

  • Dani3lDani3l Germany/NetherlandsMember Posts: 37

    XXPX1 said that it was a prototype variant that never made it pass that stage... so it does exist, it just seems that it didn't make it into serial production... Humvee can't go back into Squad it seems "legal concerns", "concerns about licensing"

  • Dani3lDani3l Germany/NetherlandsMember Posts: 37

    squad[DOT]fandom[DOT]com/wiki/Vehicles#Trivia

    web[DOT]archive.org/web/20180210203209/

    pcgamer.com/activision-has-been-sued-by-the-maker-of-the-humvee-over-the-call-of-duty-series/

  • JulesBJulesB BelgiumMember Posts: 13

    AM general lost its case against Activision and the insurgents now have a Humvee... And it doesn't exist as a piece of US army equipment so it should be in-game.

  • XXPX1XXPX1 Member Posts: 45 ★★

    Oshkosh Defense's JLTV is an L-ATV and I have seen photos of ATGMs mounted on those more frequently.

    Here is a picture from their website. And here is a video of it firing a Spike LR ATGM.

    I would love to see more vehicle diversity added (ideally, by better mod support). Although a lot of these variants have pretty dramatic impact on vehicle gameplay.

  • JulesBJulesB BelgiumMember Posts: 13

    Looks like I made a typo and wrote "should" instead of "shouldn't" in my last comment. They really have to allow you to edit things like that.

  • Dani3lDani3l Germany/NetherlandsMember Posts: 37

    Oshkosh Defense's JLTV is an L-ATV

    and this is important why/how? 🤔

  • Dani3lDani3l Germany/NetherlandsMember Posts: 37

    And here is a video of it firing a Spike LR ATGM.

    wow I didn't know that those launchers are reusible 😮 (they are, right?) i.postimg.cc/tCy5qgDL/launchers.jpg

  • GeebusGeebus Member Posts: 56 ★★

    exist where, irl or in Squad?

    In Squad. I can remember seeing them tons of times in the past but I believe they got taken from most the layers that they were on and replaced. It's a bit of an exaggeration but I almost never see them anymore.

  • XXPX1XXPX1 Member Posts: 45 ★★

    and this is important why/how?

    @DanielNL, you brought up the HMMWV. I was just saying that the JLTV was probably a better alternative to the humvee.

    wow I didn't know that those launchers are reusible 😮 (they are, right?)

    The tubes are disposable. The tripod and CLU are reused. See this video

  • Dani3lDani3l Germany/NetherlandsMember Posts: 37

    The tubes are disposable. The tripod and CLU are reused.

    Wow, then strange that the tubes are so scratched in that image i.postimg.cc/tCy5qgDL/launchers.jpg

  • Doctor HammerDoctor Hammer Member Posts: 23 ★★

    The Spandrel isn't very common either, it's on like 2 or 3 layers. I don't have an exact reference, but I remember hearing from internal sources that they were removed for balance reasons. ATGM vics are very unbalanced and makes armor extremely frustrating to play.

  • Dani3lDani3l Germany/NetherlandsMember Posts: 37

    they were removed for balance reasons.

    The Spandrels aswell, Hammer?

    ATGM vics are very unbalanced and makes armor extremely frustrating to play.

    What?? Hell no... ATGM vics make armor extremely interesting and at least a bit challenging to play, as that at least promotes one of the most important aspects of games like Squad (and Project Reality), communication between squadmembers and -leaders, to warn the tank crews if an ATGM vic moved past the infantry for example... plus only 1 LAT shot on an ATGM vic and it's most likely tracked already. And snipers can immobilize some ATGM vics in a splitsecond (TOW-vehicles where the gunner is unprotected).

    But hey, even though OWI took a more amateur-step by removing important game-content (yes, that's in fact what OWI did, they removed quite a bit content from the game by removing ATGM vics from 90% of layers), at least OWI very recently took a step in the right direction (towards PR gameplay) by reintroducing the system that promotes tactics! https://forums.joinsquad.com/discussion/188/squad-changelog-discussion#latest

  • Dani3lDani3l Germany/NetherlandsMember Posts: 37

    (remove "#latest" from that link.)

  • EcchiRevengeEcchiRevenge Member Posts: 90 ★★

    TOW MRAPS have a lot of advantages too like zoom, smoother traverse, and far higher penetration(it can shoot enemy tanks from the front in over 90% of frontal profile due to 900 penetration while Spandrel fails against at least 50% of enemy tank frontal profile due to the 500 penetration being unable to go through M1 hull front which is also 500, but at an angle).

  • EcchiRevengeEcchiRevenge Member Posts: 90 ★★

    Btw there's also a glitch that lets people see more than intended(basically use the maximum zoom without reticle/black borders covering any part of screen) with TOW MRAP.

  • EcchiRevengeEcchiRevenge Member Posts: 90 ★★

    If OWI ever learned that Spandrel can't fire behind it(or rather it only had ~90 degrees traverse to each side due to sight/guidance unit taking the place of commander station -> can't see behind it due to missile rack in the way), and only has -5 degrees of depression...


    Maybe Spandrel would have been more balanced.

  • EcchiRevengeEcchiRevenge Member Posts: 90 ★★

    Also they're more all-or-nothing; if they work then they work too well, if they suck then the team gets rolled over by enemy armor(like at certain points of Skorpo US/MIL invasion).


    Often they depend on skill and luck of one player and that's never a good thing in a supposedly "teamwork oriented" game.

  • EcchiRevengeEcchiRevenge Member Posts: 90 ★★

    Dead-Dead being added alone is actually a step backwards.


    Because now I'm extra-incentivized to not wait for medic.

  • EcchiRevengeEcchiRevenge Member Posts: 90 ★★

    It's almost like tubes are carried/loaded/unloaded before/after battle or something.

  • Doctor HammerDoctor Hammer Member Posts: 23 ★★

    Difference between squad and project reality is view distance... these games are completely different. tech is different and the way the games were made were completely different. ATGM vics at the moment do not have a place in the game. They ruined most armor engagements, the vehicle requires 0 skill that in return destroys a vehicle that requires much more skill. It's not needed in the game in their current iteration.


    You may have opinions other wise, but I don't think you are right on this one.

  • EcchiRevengeEcchiRevenge Member Posts: 90 ★★

    Not to mention spandrel in PR actually has those downsides mentioned above, massive gunner seat warmup time(so it basically kills one-manning even if you don't blackscreen from lack of driver), are much more fragile(can be damaged by rifles), far more spin to missile, plus substantial delay before firing, as well as lacking thermals(where as tanks typically have them).


    And PR actually has a single-shot Russian ATGM vehicle based on MT-LB, the 9p149 Shturm, for balance.

  • TheInvincibleAceTheInvincibleAce Member Posts: 4 Civilian

    I am aware, however in my opinion, and a lot of others the advantages offered by the spandrel outweigh the advantages of the towrap, but if you've found a way to make the towrap work, good on ya.

  • EcchiRevengeEcchiRevenge Member Posts: 90 ★★

    The point is whatever "disadvantage" tow mrap has(aside from being unrealistic as hell) doesn't even come close to counterbalancing bradley/m1 easy mode.

    And OWI has every reason/responsibility to nerf spandrel in future.

  • Dani3lDani3l Germany/NetherlandsMember Posts: 37

    EcchiRevenge are you saying Spandrel in Squad can not be damaged by rifles?

    Btw there's also a glitch that lets people see more than intended(basically use the maximum zoom without reticle/black borders covering any part of screen) with TOW MRAP.

    I never had that glitch. Or are you saying it's a triggerable exploit?

    If OWI ever learned that Spandrel can't fire behind it

    OWI might know, due to some of the team coming from the PR team afaik

    Difference between squad and project reality is view distance... these games are completely different. tech is different and the way the games were made were completely different. ATGM vics at the moment do not have a place in the game. They ruined most armor engagements, the vehicle requires 0 skill that in return destroys a vehicle that requires much more skill. It's not needed in the game in their current iteration.

    View distance doesn't change player-ability to check with binoculars before crossing a ridgeline or an open area... checking an unsafe area before rushing into it with an expensive vehicle is and always has been one of the most important aspects of PR/Squad........

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