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Razor Wire

3S_Moe3S_Moe Member Posts: 16

I LOVE using razor wire, but I find it crazy that it costs as much build points as sand bags, and takes just as long to dig as sand bags. Isn't one (of the many) reasons that the military uses razor wire is due to it's cheap cost and rapid deployment? I mean, they have vehicles now that will literally go string a circle of razor wire around an area.


Razor wire, put out far from a FOB, can often help provide that protection you need to slow and kill the enemy at a distance before they get to your fob. The problem is, it takes SOOO much razor wire to do that (wayyyy more than sand bags,) the cost is high and it takes forever for the rifleman to dig it up!


Please consider halfing the cost of razor wire and halfing the build time of razor wire. I'd also love to see more razor wire options like you have with sandbags (maybe a longer version available or a curved option.)

Comments

  • Titan84Titan84 Member Posts: 6 Civilian

    I agree, right now time and build spend are mostly not wothwhile, Razor should be easy and cheap to set up but a nuisance for the enemy to tear down...

  • GeebusGeebus Member Posts: 26 ★★

    For context, razor wire costs twenty five points to build. From the point of being at the "stakes" level to the "functional" level takes roughly eight seconds for a rifleman with a shovel. From the "stakes" level to being fully built takes roughly fifteen seconds. Just looking at those numbers on paper doesn't seem like all that much but it feels like you are trudging through mud in-game. It takes forever to fully build the wire.

    I think the sweet spot for build time should be five seconds to get the structure to the "functional" state and an additional five seconds to fully build the wire. As to the cost to build, halving the amount of build points required doesn't sound too bad. I don't think that twenty five points per is too much but it certainly wouldn't hurt to lower that price more.

  • XXPX1XXPX1 Member Posts: 30 ★★
    edited April 30

    With the ability to vault over any wall and use spacebar spam to parkour across buildings, razor wire and other fortifications have become rather useless. The cost and time is a factor of course, but I feel like the ease in which they're evaded is ultimately the reason we don't see them used much.

    It would be nice for razor wire and even sandbags if you could select a start point and then place the end point, rather than placing each chunk individually. Then just make the cost X per 5 meters or whatever. Besides the time it takes to actually shovel, there is also the time it takes the SL or FTLs to place the structures.

  • Titan84Titan84 Member Posts: 6 Civilian
  • 3S_Moe3S_Moe Member Posts: 16

    I totally disagree with you about the effectiveness of razor wire, but I love of your idea of a start/end point for placing it down. It does take an SL a long dang time to place a long series of razor wire to encircle something.


    1) You can use it as a choke point. That choke point can be to direct the enemy in different ways. ONE of the ways to direct them is to force them to climb a wall. It is incredibly easy to pop them off when they are at the top of a wall to avoid the razor wire. So your theory (or use of it) is wrong. The sheer act of trying to avoid the razor wire means the razor wire is doing exactly what it's intended to do if it's placed correctly. I've sometimes placed it near a wall that I know will force them to scale over the wall to avoid the wire. This works amazingly well on concrete walls that they can't see the other side before climbing as then I put razor wire directly on the other side of the wall for them to drop in to. If they don't get killed at the top of the wall, then they drop into the razor wire on the other side and get shot or massively slowed down. Other choke point uses are on open maps to for them one way or another. I put it at tree lines to prevent them from coming through tree lines and instead force them to swing around to open fields. The point being here, the enemy will choose the path of least resistance. Put up ANY sort of thing that impedes their direction of travel and most will attempt to go around as the cost to go through (dig down, waste a grenade to blow a hole in a section, etc.) is just not worth it.


    2) Where it is best used is on those larger open maps where you can put it far out from a point and encircle an area and then get MG's covering different segments. The key though is you want it in a spot where the enemy can't hide when they get to it. You want them nice and exposed in the open so the MG's can just pluck them off.


    3) To deal with vehicles (especially on suburban maps.) How many times has an armored vehicle come rolling in via a street in one of the highly congested city maps and just sat there and killed everyone in site near a HAB? If you put razor wire at the various points on the road to stop them from rolling in, then they can't do this, but your AT can still shoot them. If you try to accomplish this with sand bags, then it takes at least 2 vertical rows of sandbags to even remotely equal the height of the razor wire that can stop them, which means more build time, and once it's up, your AT can't shoot through it. Hesco walls are just wayyyyy to expensive to be put up on various spans of road between buildings to prevent vehicles from running in. Razor wire fits the bill here really well.


    I can promise you that if the cost of razor wire was cheaper (build points and dig speed) that we would see a lot more of it and hopefully and they would be used in better manners, and fobs would not be as vulnerable as they are now. Fob's are supposed to be a forward operating base, but it takes a good amount of build points to get it secured very well. Cheap razor wire can be that stop gap to help protect a fob on an initial setup while you are waiting for more logi runs, especially when you consider that FTL's can drop razor wire as well.

  • soraflairsoraflair Member Posts: 30 ★★

    Quote: "With the ability to vault over any wall and use spacebar spam to parkour across buildings, razor wire and other fortifications have become rather useless. The cost and time is a factor of course, but I feel like the ease in which they're evaded is ultimately the reason we don't see them used much."

    Hmm, razor wire is effective if we can get a lot of them build quickly and placed effectively.


    I think a good medium would be to bring the build point cost down too 10 per unit" and lower build time from 15 seconds to 5 seconds.


    This allows a FTL to drop 10 of them per 100 build points, and his squad members to build a "razor wire wall" in about 50 seconds, or a bit less than a minute.

  • XXPX1XXPX1 Member Posts: 30 ★★

    Just to be clear, I'm not advocating we remove vaulting. Simply reduce the height so HESCOs and other large walls cannot be vaulted over without a buddy to boost you over.

    I can promise you that if the cost of razor wire was cheaper (build points and dig speed) that we would see a lot more of it

    We used to see razor wire built along with the other fortifications. The build cost and time has only been decreased over the years.

    It was the introduction of destructible fortifications (in A9.6) and vaulting (in A10) combined with more and more ways to destroy fortifications (engineers, IFVs, tanks, increased vehicle count and commander assets) that created the current FOB meta (HAB + Ammo crate) became the standard.

    You can use it as a choke point. That choke point can be to direct the enemy in different ways.

    Except you're dealing with an enemy team of spider-men that jump and climb over any obstacle in their way.

    I would agree with you before A10 but creating an effective choke point with soldiers that can leap 8' walls in full kit is practically impossible.

    Where it is best used is on those larger open maps where you can put it far out from a point and encircle an area 

    Consider the time it takes to do such a thing. 15 seconds per segment + the time to place them and why not add in a logi run while we're at it.

    It's just not very practical. Especially when one IFV or tank can clear a good portion in a matter of a minute.

    if you put razor wire at the various points on the road to stop them from rolling in, then they can't do this...

    The vehicle can just shoot its way past it. I have never seen razor wire used to impair a vehicles movement and if it actually works, I would suggest that it probably shouldn't. I would go as far to say that razor wire should be treated like small trees, with vehicles allowed to pass through them unimpaired.

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    I'm not against trying to make razor wire relevant again, but we have to look at why it's not being used. We cannot just slash construction costs and build time until it starts being used. That's not addressing the issue and it creates a "race to the bottom", which is not effective game design nor is it fun.

    I will reiterate: Razor wire and other fortifications were used in Squad's past (and the construction cost was higher back then).

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