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Ex British CMT here with 2 tours of Afghan. Let me tell you that implementing a casevac mechanic would be boring as hell in a game! I'm in the group that says a slightly more detailed version of PR:BF2 medical system would do fine. There's no need to add in things like "sucking chest wounds" or the need for surgical crics as anyone in need of these is out of the game. Hell even adding a tournquet is pretty much game over.

Any questions feel free to ask.

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Greatly appreciated Melbo, I am sure that we have a few things we may run by you as we start to implement the medical system. That is still a tiny bit in the future though.

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having Arma 2/3 medic system with epi,bandages,morphine would be awesome it is not to advanced to use but still goes into the dept of a medic system. 

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I believe that a blend of the medical system ACE2 + Medical System America Armys (Yes AA3) along with MEDEVAC would be something that can be done with UT4

 

AA3 medic form:

Shallow breathing = OPA

Weak Pulse= Saline

Labored movement = Splint

Pale Skin = Smelling Salt

I think was it

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I believe that a blend of the medical system ACE2 + Medical System America Armys (Yes AA3) along with MEDEVAC would be something that can be done with UT4 AA3 medic form:Shallow breathing = OPAWeak Pulse= SalineLabored movement = SplintPale Skin = Smelling SaltI think was it

To complex, medevac has been discussed - It wouldn't add anything to the gameplay and I imagine players would try to get themselves killed rather than wounded to avoid having to be medevaced.

 

As outlined in the description of ACE's medical system, the medic only needs to worry about these things: Is the patient bleeding, are they conscious, are they in pain and can they walk and aim. Applying the appropriate medical supplies would just be done via a menu with hotkeys as in ACE, they wait for it to be applied by their character, then the appropriate symptom is treating. Healing, ie returning their actual hitpoints back to normal would be doable in the field but would take time its self. The "medkit" item would contain all the necessary supplies (Bandages, morphine etc) and would be limited in use, requiring resupply when depleted just like any other piece of equipment.

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Here's my idea in regards to the medical system: I think that what the OP mentions is pretty much spot on, but I'd like to see characters not fully healed until they can reach the nearest friendly building, So you wouldn't have to RTB every time you're shot, your squad could just set up or travel to a nearby FOB to get rid of slower movement speed (If you're shot in the leg, medic can fix it but not fully), or lowered overall health. If one person gets shot in the arm and has dodgy aim, you can keep on going. But if the whole squad has these minor injuries, you'll probably want to take the squad somewhere to heal up. I think it'd add more serious consequences to being shot, without disrupting gameplay too much.

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Here's my idea in regards to the medical system: I think that what the OP mentions is pretty much spot on, but I'd like to see characters not fully healed until they can reach the nearest friendly building, So you wouldn't have to RTB every time you're shot, your squad could just set up or travel to a nearby FOB to get rid of slower movement speed (If you're shot in the leg, medic can fix it but not fully), or lowered overall health. If one person gets shot in the arm and has dodgy aim, you can keep on going. But if the whole squad has these minor injuries, you'll probably want to take the squad somewhere to heal up. I think it'd add more serious consequences to being shot, without disrupting gameplay too much.

The medic should be able to heal these issues, but the maximum health of each squad member would deteriorate each time they get shot. Maybe taking a certain number of shots to each body part would decrease the medic's ability to fix it.

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The medic should be able to heal these issues, but the maximum health of each squad member would deteriorate each time they get shot. Maybe taking a certain number of shots to each body part would decrease the medic's ability to fix it.

Yeah, that's basically what I'm saying. The medic can heal you almost completely, but to get back to 100% you would need to go to a FOB or RTB or some other friendly building.

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I really like the concept of medevac, but it's simply not viable, even in ArmA which is slower-paced than PR.

 

It's not that players would not do it, but that it would be too stressful on already limited manpower. If servers could support 200-300 players, then I could see choppers being designated for med evac, but with 100 player servers there just won't be enough manpower for that. To be clear: it *would* be useful and immerse, but it's just not realistic with the current setup.

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the purpose of healing/medics is to increase the time that fire fights last and to increase gameplay time. i thought PR was near perfect in this with its medics, and u could only be revived one time and healed indefinately.

 

also, in PR there was a field "hospital" for the ins and an ambulance in the Falluja map. the ins only had to stand in it and would get healed. something like that would be cool for unconventional forces, or for conventional forces getting auto-healed while in any vehicle if there is a medic in it it too. and plz no bolt action rifles or sub mg's for medics though, like the Taliban of chechen militia in PR iifc, unless it is an alt weapon. plz only semi/full auto combat rifles, and maybe give only like 3 or 4 mags to balance.

 

plz, no RTB or RTFOB for healing. imagine "ah, 2 of our guys got shot in the legs, lets walk (slower now too) 400 meters to the closest friendly building/fob, and since were in a fire fight, we'll probably get shot at and take more casualties along the way" --no ty!

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While we're making it more difficult for the medic, why not add difficulty for the soldier. Lets make it so where he gets shot has an impact on how the soldier continues to operate:

  • One shot kill to the head, kills player outright. No reviving him.
  • Shot in the chest, slower moving in general, less accurate and generally just "worse".
  • Shot in the arms, way lower accuracy, slower reloads
  • Shot in legs, limping and can't run. Both legs shot means you have to crawl.

great idea, but would require specific animation for these, would really add to immersion.

 

also some1 mentioned writhing on the ground if wounded and healable, and straight passed out/silent if dead--yes plz! but, if some1 is "dead" but revivable and is writhing on the ground, can enemy forces fire on him to make him "dead dead"? i think that would be ok

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Medic is pretty much "my" role in PR. So from the medics view I have a couple things I'd like to see and not see. I only skimmed the above posts, so sorry if I repeat stuff. This is just my take. 

First off, asking people if they are "Dead dead" is stupid. I'm pretty sure only PR players do this, all my mates think I'm bonkers when I ask that in, say, BF4. So lets get rid of this, it's super easy to do, too: 

  • Dead people cant talk (at least not in local) 
  • Wounded people can talk 

Ok so this gets a little complex if you add concious states, states of disability etc. But do we need people collapsing, and the extra stress it puts on medics? Not really. Personally I'd keep it as just 4 health states: Fine, walking wounded, wounded or dead.

You have to remember that this is a game where bridging the gap between BF4 and Arma is important. It's just an extra level of detail that just gets clunky and confusing, and in general is not needed.

Dragging bodies is also badly needed. I really hate repeating "follow my voice" over and over. Not very immersive or realistic. 

If we want to make it more involved for the medic, why not have it so you have to heal the part that's wounded. Say that a guy says he's hit, find the blood on him and heal the blood. It's much more realistic that having him lay prone while you bandage his foot up after he got double tapped in the chest. 

While we're making it more difficult for the medic, why not add difficulty for the soldier. Lets make it so where he gets shot has an impact on how the soldier continues to operate:

  • One shot kill to the head, kills player outright. No reviving him.
  • Shot in the chest, slower moving in general, less accurate and generally just "worse".
  • Shot in the arms, way lower accuracy, slower reloads
  • Shot in legs, limping and can't run. Both legs shot means you have to crawl.

This makes it both more realistic and helps the medic identify what needs treating on the 'patient'.

+1 on this as a medic like 99% of the time  Reaper has a point 

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+1 for shot in the head = dead.

Everything else should be able to get threated, untill than you should have these effects which sound pretty fair imo.

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Battlefield style: The Omnipotent Defibrillator, whom is capable of reviving a person from heat shot, knife stab or even a tank shell in the face!

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I would like to see the medic apply aid based on the type of wound (wound specific animations) but I don't want a clunky ARMA control scheme to do it. The simple switch to med pack and mouse click in PR and the press E "Use" function in America's Army were great. You shouldn't need to map a new keybind for each type of injury. Personally, my preference would be the simple America's Army 1 and 2 style of medic. Walk up to a casualty and click E to heal, each type of wound takes a different time to heal and has a different animation. This method of applying first aid would be easy for new players to pick up on and visually appealing.

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Yeah, I agree. Something as or more streamlined compared to PR when it comes to reviving, but I still really want to see being shot carrying greater consequence than your screen just flashing red every few seconds - impaired accuracy or mobility.

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Medic is pretty much "my" role in PR. So from the medics view I have a couple things I'd like to see and not see. I only skimmed the above posts, so sorry if I repeat stuff. This is just my take. 

First off, asking people if they are "Dead dead" is stupid. I'm pretty sure only PR players do this, all my mates think I'm bonkers when I ask that in, say, BF4. So lets get rid of this, it's super easy to do, too: 

  • Dead people cant talk (at least not in local) 
  • Wounded people can talk 

Ok so this gets a little complex if you add concious states, states of disability etc. But do we need people collapsing, and the extra stress it puts on medics? Not really. Personally I'd keep it as just 4 health states: Fine, walking wounded, wounded or dead.

You have to remember that this is a game where bridging the gap between BF4 and Arma is important. It's just an extra level of detail that just gets clunky and confusing, and in general is not needed.

Dragging bodies is also badly needed. I really hate repeating "follow my voice" over and over. Not very immersive or realistic. 

If we want to make it more involved for the medic, why not have it so you have to heal the part that's wounded. Say that a guy says he's hit, find the blood on him and heal the blood. It's much more realistic that having him lay prone while you bandage his foot up after he got double tapped in the chest. 

While we're making it more difficult for the medic, why not add difficulty for the soldier. Lets make it so where he gets shot has an impact on how the soldier continues to operate:

  • One shot kill to the head, kills player outright. No reviving him.
  • Shot in the chest, slower moving in general, less accurate and generally just "worse".
  • Shot in the arms, way lower accuracy, slower reloads
  • Shot in legs, limping and can't run. Both legs shot means you have to crawl.

This makes it both more realistic and helps the medic identify what needs treating on the 'patient'.

As a PR Medic who has played ARMA2, I +1.

 

I'm also hoping that if I run into a guy and burst him, and he goes down- I can finish him off before his team hunts me down, murders me, and begins healing him up like new as if nothing ever happened five entire minutes later.

 

If you can't completely heal a bloke right away, he would suffer a movement decrease and a lack of accuracy.

For this you could just jab him with morphine- It would slow the health drain down for a limited time and allow him to move freely while you fall back to a more secure place to heal him properly- Which would include finding where we was hit-Maybe, I mean that's not something we really need.. Imagine the frustration in a squad if their medic was a noob, and still working this stuff out??-  Applying gauze to it, say a 3-5 second animation, and then a bandage- Another 10 seconds.

 

Maybe it'd be too much as well, but perhaps have a minute or so where he has more ADS sway that slowly returns to normal, and decreased stamina for the same amount of time while he "recovers".

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Given that Squad is a game that works in both public and organized environments and has a certain flaw that is easily to understand and emphasizes teamwork, I feel like staying close to the PR-way of healing is the way to go.

 

Small adjustments are fine, but please please don't overcomplicate things.

 

Many of you guys seem to forget what made PR:BF2 so fun to play.

That it was so simple, yet a to a certain extend pretty realistic.

 

^ This.

 

Squad is about Teamplay. A simple medic system boosts teamplay. A super-complicated surgeon simulator does not and takes too much time compared to the speed of the game. If you need 5 minutes to patch someone up (and apply 4 different types of treatment, drag the person somewhere, medevac him or whatever) then the game itself needs to be much much more slow-paced and that's not what I think the game should head for. I don't want to play ArmA and I don't want to play Red Orchestra.

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Many of you guys seem to forget what made PR:BF2 so fun to play.

That it was so simple, yet a to a certain extend pretty realistic. 

 

Yes, it's possible to do alot of stuff with the new engine, but changes like this will have a huge impact on the so loved pace and feeling of PR's gameplay.

I personally don't want this project on a realism level like ARMA Ace. 

I'd stick to PR's idea of saying gameplay > realism.

 

That means tha I would love a simple medic system like in PR:BF2 with some new features, that Comrade already suggested.

I think the ACE like medical system is good idea, yes, I understand that they want to make it appear to more players 'cause it's a commercial game but some of us are sick of the "get shot, run to a medic, feel better" system, it makes no sense, but they could have a casual mode with the simple system and then we could have a hardcore mode with the ACE like medical system, it would more or less keep both groups happy.

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I think the ACE like medical system is good idea, yes, I understand that they want to make it appear to more players 'cause it's a commercial game but some of us are sick of the "get shot, run to a medic, feel better" system, it makes no sense, but they could have a casual mode with the simple system and then we could have a hardcore mode with the ACE like medical system, it would more or less keep both groups happy.

 

I can not WAIT to be a Medic in Squad. I was ranked Top 10 in BF4 - California for Revives. However, in PR I am / was not a Medic very often. I can't wait to step up to the plate and be the guys responsible for saving my Squad-mates. Also, everyone loves a Medic ! Oh man, that is a great idea for a Squad Tee. BRB writing that one down.

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Dragging bodies is also badly needed. I really hate repeating "follow my voice" over and over. Not very immersive or realistic. 


While we're making it more difficult for the medic, why not add difficulty for the soldier. Lets make it so where he gets shot has an impact on how the soldier continues to operate:

  • One shot kill to the head, kills player outright. No reviving him.
  • Shot in the chest, slower moving in general, less accurate and generally just "worse".
  • Shot in the arms, way lower accuracy, slower reloads
  • Shot in legs, limping and can't run. Both legs shot means you have to crawl.

This makes it both more realistic and helps the medic identify what needs treating on the 'patient'.

 

+1

But one exception, sniper/marksman should not be able to one shot kill in the head. I feel that it would be too overpowered. Yes, this is realistic and the point of sniper is to create fear for the enemy so they have to either dug in their cover or relocate elsewhere. But, I believe that wounded the player to the point where they need to be revived is enough to achieve this purpose.

 

These ideas are fabulous but to make this work, we need another item for the medic kit. 

I propose that PR medic kit should have "morphine". 

 

The purpose of morphine should be temporary heal soldiers, similar to patch but the health will decline over certain period of time. Thus, you still need healing from the medic.

 

In more details:

 - Morphine is temporary.

   ~  Morphine can heal the soldier so they can be at their full potential but the health will decline and the effect of morphine is lost when the soldier enter b/w stage.

 - Morphine cannot be stacked, which means it can be only use once every "x" minutes.

   ~ if the morphine is stacked, it will cause the player to be overdosed and enter a wounded stage instead.

   ~ I suggest that morphine effects should last somewhere between 5~10 minutes. If the period is too short then player would just spam them and if it's too long, then player can face another firefight and cannot regain its full potential.

 - Morphine will remove all the negative buff.

   ~ Morphine can remove any injuries/buff that either slow down the movement or affect the ability to aim. 

   ~ However, morphine can only remove the negative buff once. If the player is somehow injured again then the new negative buff will not disappear.

 - Morphine will stop reducing player's health when they are treated with medical box (medic's first aid kit)

   ~ The morphine and medical box can be stacked so the player can be healed very quickly.

   ~ Yes, this can be seen as cheating but in a way, the fact that morphine cannot be stacked will make player think twice before using the morphine.

   ~ Yes, this can be stacked with epic-pen as well. 

 

and to me, I don't like patches. While it served its purpose, healing player faster or player can last longer in combat. It also promoted One Man Army. The idea that one can go around, killing number of players, takes their patches so he can do it again, is not teamwork. By replacing patches with morphine, it forces player to stick in group, and work their ways around the medic. This also means that morphine might as well be the first aid kit for every kit in the game.

 

Also, the player should have an ability to move their teammate's body. The ability to move bodies can save their life/teammates/medic from imminent threats such as enemies storming or explosion. Although anyone can pick up medic kit, but if the medic ends up 25 metres away from the whole squad, who is going to heal the rest of the them. So manipulating body is needed. 

 

And because the body can be manipulated by friendly, enemy should be able to do the same. Enemy can perform "execution", which means shooting at the wounded player. Maybe shooting 2-3 shots to make sure he is no longer revival. However, I'm not sure if execution should be done at all range or all type of weapon. For instant, a sniper can take out one player from a distance but should that make him capable of killing too? I don't think so. Maybe there should be a limitation of either type of weapon or range it could be done. Otherwise, people would just simply keep shooting at it. In my opinion, the type of weapon that can perform "execution" should be for everyone except for sniper/marksman. (As you can see, i do not like sniper/marksman too)

 

To me, these would be great for Squad because while it does resemble to realistic and similar to Arma mod, it is simple enough for everyone to use them. And I wonder what others would think about this?

 

 

Many of you guys seem to forget what made PR:BF2 so fun to play.

That it was so simple, yet a to a certain extend pretty realistic.

 

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Everything should 1 shot kill to the head.

No exceptions, except that you hit the helmet instead. Even that should only save you sometimes.

 

And besides, Snipers are completely combat ineffective if they lack the ability to pose a consistent risk on the enemy.

One shot rings out, a guy is KO'd. Okay, throw smoke- revive- Continue. Nobody gives a fuck, he can't see us anymore, and if he can- Rinse and Repeat last.

 

If a shot rings out, a guy is instantly killed- That gap becomes an obstacle, and people become careful.

Or maybe he's wounded? If the Sniper has the ability to kill a downed enemy, it means he can purposely leave him alive to draw out more soldiers.

As soon as someone goes out to grab him, he is downed, and killed. The sniper will actually become a deadly battlefield enemy rather than someone who's only real purpose is to cap lone wolves that don't have a medic to revive them. (And yes I know recon/laze targets/intel, Whatever that's not my point here.)

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