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Olicarnage

Minimap, map icons, compass, show wounded members and squad state

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Hi,

 

After a few hours playing squad, this is very promising so far. Some performance issues prevent me to enjoy it completly but there is no sense to complain on that subject since it's an alpha.

 

Here is some of my first suggestions:

 

1. Add a minimap in the top right corner

 

Numerous times, I found myself looking at the top right corner of my screen starring at nothing to check my team members location, check my squad members position and cover some unattended directions. I think the minimap is a very usefull tool and it would be nice to bring it to squad. I can't imagine driving a vehicle or worse, piloting a chopper without it. Also,maybe you could add a checkbox in the options to disable it for the players who want a clear screen with the less UI as possible.

 

2. Make bigger map icons with more contrast with regards to the map

 

I think the map icons, especially the flags, are too smalls and melt into the map. I could see them bigger and with more "colors". I could also see the spawn points more bigger and easy to find (something like the big dots of PR but not necessary a copy and paste). However, the squad members icons are great. 

 

edit: also, display the name under each flag

 

3. Add some sub-graduation in the compass

 

I like to give an accurate direction of a target by giving the azimuth plus or minus the number of sub-graduations. With Squad's compass, it's difficult to do this because there is no sub-graduations.

 

4. Show wounded team members on the map for medics

 

So it's easier to find wounded people and revive them.

 

5. Show wounded/dead team members and their role in the score board and find them on the map by clicking on their name

 

It would be great to have one column in the score board that show the role of each team member and therefore each squad member so it's easy to see what role is missing in the squad. The ability to find a person on the map by clicking on his name in the scoreboard would be nice too (the same little menu that appears on the map by clicking on a player icon). Also, I would like to interact with the score board to hide/show the others squad so it's possible to isolate my squad in the scoreboard. Finnally, I think it would be great to see the health state of each player in the score board with some colors on their name or a colored dot in a dedicated column. Green = full health, Orange = Hurt, Red = Incapacited, Grey or White = Dead.

 

I suppose you have already thought to implement some of these suggestions but who knows.

 

I believe Squad will become a great game, I can't wait to see the vehicles. Keep going the good work ! :)

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Remember that the game is still way early in its development and a lot of the features are subject to change, we won´t get a mini map as infantry though, that is a core feature of the game that you have to check your map or give directions with the compass. Maybe will get a map in the corner in a vehicle as a driver/co driver though (that´s how PR did it)

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"4. Show wounded team members on the map for medics

So it's easier to find wounded people and revive them."

As a core medic, it's not supposed to be easy to just open your map and see where your wounded mates are. Communicate via in game radio to navigate where they are, it's squad, a team based game. The compass is enough of a hint in my opinion.

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As for the Minimap > Use the map! (Default key M) opens up a map and you can move around with it open!

Edit: you can allways see your squad mates Kits, press Enter and clixk on the "Squad" tab :)

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Hi,

 

After a few hours playing squad, this is very promising so far. Some performance issues prevent me to enjoy it completly but there is no sense to complain on that subject since it's an alpha.

 

Here is some of my first suggestions:

 

1. Add a minimap in the top right corner

 

Numerous times, I found myself looking at the top right corner of my screen starring at nothing to check my team members location, check my targets or check my squad members position and cover some unattended directions. I think the minimap is a very usefull tool and it would be nice to bring it to squad. I can't imagine driving a vehicle or worse, piloting a chopper without it. Also,maybe you could add a checkbox in the options to disable it for the players who want a clear screen with the less UI as possible.

 

2. Make bigger map icons with more contrast with regards to the map

 

I think the map icons, especially the flags, are too smalls and melt into the map. I could see them bigger and with more "colors". I could also see the spawn points more bigger and easy to find (something like the big dots of PR but not necessary a copy and paste). However, the squad members icons are great.

 

3. Add some sub-graduation in the compass

 

I like to give an accurate direction of a target by giving the azimuth plus or minus the number of sub-graduations. With Squad's compass, it's difficult to do this because there is no sub-graduations.

 

4. Show wounded team members on the map for medics

 

So it's easier to find wounded people and revive them.

 

5. Show wounded/dead team members and their role in the score board and find them on the map by clicking on their name

 

It would be great to have one column in the score board that show the role of each team member and therefore each squad member so it's easy to see what role is missing in the squad. The ability to find a person on the map by clicking on his name in the scoreboard would be nice too (the same little menu that appears on the map by clicking on a player icon). Also, I would like to interact with the score board to hide/show the others squad so it's possible to isolate my squad in the scoreboard. Finnally, I think it would be great to see the health state of each player in the score board with some colors on their name or a colored dot in a dedicated column. Green = full health, Orange = Hurt, Red = Incapacited, Grey or White = Dead.

 

I suppose you have already thought to implement some of these suggestions but who knows.

 

I believe Squad will become a great game, I can't wait to see the vehicles. Keep going the good work ! :)

learn to play,learn to use a compass

 

 

Project Reality  no minimap in the top right corner

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learn to play,learn to use a compass

 

 

Project Reality  no minimap in the top right corner

 

he was giving feedback... "learn to play" is such a retarded response

first few seconds you have a minimap... because you are in a vehicle.

thats what koschi was saying nothing else.

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Yes, unhelpful responses are just...un helpful!

 

I'd just posted on another thread about having an indicator on the map for wounded persons. Here are my thoughts:

 

The current system is not easy to use - fact! Those saying "its meant to be hard, you need to communicate", well yes, upto a point I would agree. However what I have seen in the weeks I've been playing is that it is quite hard to describe to someone where you are, yes you can give a map ref but in the heat of battle its hard for the medic to then pull up the map and work out whos been injured and where they are.

 

I'm certainly not advocating a permanent mini map, I wouldnt even want the injured icon for all to see, just the medics ( unless it was simpler programing wise, to provide an injured marker for all ) and its no less realistic than having a wounded indicator appear over someones body, now is it?

 

Lastly, it would hopefully stop those players that just keep shouting "MEDIC" over the squad radio without giving their location when they are injured!

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I Dont want a BF3 , when injured you could have the player ¬ scream more to aid the medic in ,  to treat his wounds , the icon does a good job .

Repeat i do not want anther BF3 game here .

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i think the current system is ok.

the major problem is people calling out for medic and expecting the medic to look for their coordinates instead of themselves.

had a squadleader and some squaddies who told Me to look at the map while we where under fire to get them up, but thats just wrong. they are incapacitated and have absolutly nothing else to do than press "m" and pass over their grid or their bearing.

its just a matter of communication in my oppinion and if the medic is clear about it, not being responsible for that, its not a problem at all.

 

edit: not saying there is nothing to be improved or fine tuned

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A minimap is highly unlikely for infantry.

 

The rest has been stated before or is already planned and not in yet.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

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A minimap is highly unlikely for infantry.

 

The rest has been stated before or is already planned and not in yet.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Good to hear, thanks for your efforts, its already an awesome game, It will only get better!

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Open up your map with m and scroll over the person's icon and it'll show a name whoever been calling out to you over invoice chat. It's meant to be difficult in a firefight and intense and feel stuck and frustrated like "wtf! I gotta save that dude". Use technics that make it easier for you, adaptation. Ofcourse this is feedback for future improvements but just implimenting something to make it simpler for a hard class, why? Be up for a challenge. Medic class is only to heal people, priority one. Again, adapt, shout at players if they don't give directions and drill you for not helping them. Us on BVAR announce at the start who are medics in the squad and rules that are set, don't give up, learn to coordinate and tell us where you are and what or who are or was around you etc etc. If a medic is down, we will Prioritise getting the medic up before anyone else, if both are down we will advise you if to give up.

I personally feel the challenge for the medic is needed and it doesn't need to be simplified any further. It just adds to the intensity and feeling of being a medic and people relying on you.

But of course feedback from players is always needed.

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A minimap is highly unlikely for infantry.

 

The rest has been stated before or is already planned and not in yet.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

the only thing i like to say...is it by design to have the map be that large when press m?  if not i like to reduce it by 25% so i can see a little more

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Related to this topic, I'd like to see being able to select squads and then having their members light up on the map, like in PR. It makes choosing a good squad easier and not ending up somewhere where the SL is running around without the slightest clue, and the members are each on their own sides of the map.

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A minimap is highly unlikely for infantry.

 

The rest has been stated before or is already planned and not in yet.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Thank you for your response  ^_^

 

Open up your map with m and scroll over the person's icon and it'll show a name whoever been calling out to you over invoice chat. It's meant to be difficult in a firefight and intense and feel stuck and frustrated like "wtf! I gotta save that dude". Use technics that make it easier for you, adaptation. Ofcourse this is feedback for future improvements but just implimenting something to make it simpler for a hard class, why? Be up for a challenge. Medic class is only to heal people, priority one. Again, adapt, shout at players if they don't give directions and drill you for not helping them. Us on BVAR announce at the start who are medics in the squad and rules that are set, don't give up, learn to coordinate and tell us where you are and what or who are or was around you etc etc. If a medic is down, we will Prioritise getting the medic up before anyone else, if both are down we will advise you if to give up.

I personally feel the challenge for the medic is needed and it doesn't need to be simplified any further. It just adds to the intensity and feeling of being a medic and people relying on you.

But of course feedback from players is always needed.

 

Find wounded people only with squad radio or in local leads to a very high number of give up. How can you tell to a medic who is not in your squad 50 meters away from you to revive you ? You basically isolate the job of the medic to your squad only or the teammates fallen at his feet. You think the squad leader will bother checking his map to see in which squad is the medic nearby you and contact his squad leader everytime it happens ?

 

This system works very well in PR, I don't know why it would deteriorate the teamplay.

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a mini map would destroy the realism.. I'd like to ditch the on screen map and change it for a hand held one, so it's an inconvenience to view it.

means you'd have to out your gun away.

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Find wounded people only with squad radio or in local leads to a very high number of give up. How can you tell to a medic who is not in your squad 50 meters away from you to revive you ? You basically isolate the job of the medic to your squad only or the teammates fallen at his feet. You think the squad leader will bother checking his map to see in which squad is the medic nearby you and contact his squad leader everytime it happens ?

 

This system works very well in PR, I don't know why it would deteriorate the teamplay.

 

A good squad leader will organize his squad and keep a high level of situational awareness. That includes checking the big map, not a minimap which is more for instantly identifying enemies in every other shooter instead of the big picture.

 

A good medic will keep eyes out for casualties instead of focusing being on the front line.

 

A good squad member will say he's down, the location and whether he was exposed or not.

 

A good team member will tell you the direction of contact before helplessly yelling "I NEED A MEDIC" the second he goes down - neutralizing contact is more important than risking more lives to get someone up ASAP.

 

You're a medic at squad level here, not platoon level. It makes sense that the job would be isolated to the squad and close team mates, even though it's not actually restricted in that manner. You need to adapt to this play style, not simplify it or make it like an existing title. It's not easy but then again this isn't supposed to be a quick, drop in the middle of the shitstorm and rack up bare kills action title. The whole team is supposed to pull their weight and act as one.. getting things down to assist squad roles / players on an individual level such as minimaps and a quick way of medics finding casualties is just going to make it easier for a player to play as an individual (lonewolf).

 

Of course, these mechanics are going to go through iterations and won't stay 100% as they are now.. but I'm sure you'll appreciate the reasons why Squad doesn't have things such as minimaps, extra layers of map markers and player statuses on the scoreboard.

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A good squad leader will organize his squad and keep a high level of situational awareness. That includes checking the big map, not a minimap which is more for instantly identifying enemies in every other shooter instead of the big picture.

 

A good medic will keep eyes out for casualties instead of focusing being on the front line.

 

A good squad member will say he's down, the location and whether he was exposed or not.

 

A good team member will tell you the direction of contact before helplessly yelling "I NEED A MEDIC" the second he goes down - neutralizing contact is more important than risking more lives to get someone up ASAP.

 

You're a medic at squad level here, not platoon level. It makes sense that the job would be isolated to the squad and close team mates, even though it's not actually restricted in that manner. You need to adapt to this play style, not simplify it or make it like an existing title. It's not easy but then again this isn't supposed to be a quick, drop in the middle of the shitstorm and rack up bare kills action title. The whole team is supposed to pull their weight and act as one.. getting things down to assist squad roles / players on an individual level such as minimaps and a quick way of medics finding casualties is just going to make it easier for a player to play as an individual (lonewolf).

 

Of course, these mechanics are going to go through iterations and won't stay 100% as they are now.. but I'm sure you'll appreciate the reasons why Squad doesn't have things such as minimaps, extra layers of map markers and player statuses on the scoreboard.

 

I'm not talking about a minimap where you can see 100m around you but 10m or 15m as infantery. But I can understand the choice to get rid completly of the minimap to oblige more communication between squadmembers. I just hope it will be possible to reduce the big map when driving a vehicle (even more with air vehicles), because let go the controls, pressing the M key, find where you are on the map, find where you must go is not a pleasant thing to do in my opinion.

 

I have difficulties to see why a wounded marker (only for medics) would suddenly transform Squad to a quick nervous shooter for lonewolfs. I see it as a mean for wounded player to get the attention of a medic too far away to hear the local voice but close enough to tempt a revive.

 

I would like to add that Squad must stay accessible for a large audience. Adding more and more layers of difficulty to promote communication could have a negative impact and make the game frustrating. It would be sad to see Squad with private communities everywhere and locked servers like in Arma.

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I'm not talking about a minimap where you can see 100m around you but 10m or 15m as infantery. But I can understand the choice to get rid completly of the minimap to oblige more communication between squadmembers. I just hope it will be possible to reduce the big map when driving a vehicle (even more with air vehicles), because let go the controls, pressing the M key, find where you are on the map, find where you must go is not a pleasant thing to do in my opinion.

 

I have difficulties to see why a wounded marker (only for medics) would suddenly transform Squad to a quick nervous shooter for lonewolfs. I see it as a mean for wounded player to get the attention of a medic too far away to hear the local voice but close enough to tempt a revive.

 

I would like to add that Squad must stay accessible for a large audience. Adding more and more layer of difficulties to promote communication could have a negative impact and make the game frustrating. It would be sad to see Squad with privates communities everywhere and locked servers like in Arma.

 

For the scale of the game, 10m to 15m would be completely useless. That's the size of a small compound and displaying enemy players on that minimap would make it less of a challenge than it already is. Fair enough for the vehicles though, good point! You would be dead or spotted the second you glance at the minimap.

 

It wouldn't transform it but it would definitely be one of the few steps towards it. It's promoting gameplay at an individual level and taking away the responsibility of players as well as the whole team play ethic by allowing us to rely on ourselves instead of squad mates. The current markers on the compass are enough for me, personally. Honestly, I would be more concerned with people learning to play as an effective medic first and then hearing their judgement after they've experienced the real side of it, not a first impression. Far too many people jump to revive a player the second he calls them or goes down which leads to their instant death. Adding an even further amount of people to the equation will just make the medic role feel "underpowered" or "too difficult".

 

Those private communities are there because those players want to experience a more hardcore (maybe different is a better word to use) play style and not play casual game modes such as KoTH, Wasteland, Tactical Battlefield etc. They play custom missions tailored to their play style, and that's completely fine and how it's been in ARMA for years. The main reason for these private communities and not enough accessibility for the large audience is mods, not difficulty of gameplay. A large portion of players just cannot be arsed installing a whole new set of mods for different servers.. especially when there's so many different sources to download mods from which also include different versions - something that leads to frustration and eventually giving up.

 

If people want to experience something easier or accessible they have a whole range of titles and franchises for that. Players who want to experience the gritty side, the side that requires excellent communication skills and playing in a whole different style, only have mods to create this experience for us in a select few games. It's about time we got a game made for us, the minority who get shut out within the larger titles because we're not important enough or because it would "make the game too difficult". I'm not talking about a realistic game or a simulator, I'm talking about SQUAD and the way it's literally built on team work and authenticity.

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Who talked about displaying ennemy players on the minimap ? I've just talked about an OPTIONAL minimap to have a quick understand of our close surrounding, like a compound, and see where are the entrances, where are posted our squadmembers, etc, without the need to open the big map and scroll the hell out of the mouse to have a zoom on that area. But hey it's only a suggestion. PR doesn't have it (anymore) and I'm fine with it.

 

Squad should stay on the line between a military simulation and a game. PR does it quite right. For example, I'm not a big fan of not being able to pick up the kit of a medic to revive him when the rest of the squad went OK during the battle. He is forced to give up and respawn far away from the squad (since spawnpoints cannot be placed near frontline) and if other members are killed, they can all give up too, wich spread out the Squad. I know, picking a medic kit is not possible in reality but it's a good thing to maintain the squad cohesion. With this kind of situation, medics must stay away from any firefight because if they are down, it's over. As a result, playing as medic it's not interesting anymore. But again, it's my opinion, some people like that.

 

I don't see why some features must be banished from Squad because this is present in a game you don't like. If it's practical and it could help the player to enhance his teamwork, why not talk about it ? You can surely make a step forward into a "battle duty modern warfare premium elite", but you can also make a step forward into a rigid military simulation.

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Olicarnage - I agree with some of your points; the devs DO read these posts and the game is still being developed, some of what you're suggesting may make its way into the game. Patience

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