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*Poll* 3rd Person Vehicular Controls. Yea or Nay?

3rd Person Vehicular Controls  

68 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think Squad should allow 3rd person for Vehicular Combat?

    • Yes, Absolutely.
      2
    • No, Never.
      63
    • Only for land based vehicles.
      0
    • Only for Air-assets.
      2
    • Only for non-pilots/drivers
      1


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Topic and Poll kinda say it all, but lets yell at each-other till we convince everyone our way is right, eh? :P;)

Ok, lets be civil. 3rd person?

 

I never play it, but I know some people cant play without it. So have at it boys

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If they ever decide to do it, then make two kinds of servers, core and hardcore. 

that´d split the community

 

and been discussed before

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If I gave my honest opinion I would be instantly executed. 

 

Safe to say I won't be part of this decision process. heheh

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Dont be afraid Taxi, people here need to remember that we are not making a mil sim, even though every suggestion on our forums seem to indicate so. People need to remember what our mission is: to bridge the gap between BF and ARMA, not go beyond ARMA on the arcade-mil sim axis.

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Safe to say I won't be playing much if 3rd person is implemented!

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I believe as I do most people expect the squad is a realistic game and having a good level of complexity but has the fluidity as the pr, without compromising the immersion, realism  and teamwork.

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While we have not decided on 3rd person camera yet, and it is likely that there wont be any because of immersion, I pose the question - what difference does it really make if it is there or not?

 

1. It takes a bit away from the immersion - then don't press the camera button.

2. It allows for a small amount of increased situation awareness that you are not able to have from 1st person. But nothing game breaking. You cant aim your weapons when viewing from outside anyway - if it is even implemented........

 

What other effect does it have other than that? Surely nothing that makes you want to stop playing the entire game just because vehicles may or may not have this?

 

Am I missing something?

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Well this is obviously from Arma and some things won't apply to how 3rd person could be adapted into Squad but it pretty much sums up my views on it!

 

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If you are right behind a wall, then you will be able to see perfectly around that wall without exposing any part of your body. Anyone who is on the other side of that wall will have to run all the way to you then press himself up similarly to be able to see you. I think that has very huge implications on gameplay.

The increase in situational awareness, if you ask me, is huge, not small.

EDIT: Melbo posted a better explanation of the argument. Refer to that video instead.

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After a few hours of needed rest, I feel a little bit more capable of coherent expression.  I edited OP to remove any immediate slant toward the topic. Sorry for creating an instant bias, and honestly I expected the opinions from the community  to be much more varied on the matter than thus far have been expressed.

I do think that the confines of an armored shell come with excelent advantages to avoiding small arms fire etc, at least with respect to tanks. This advantage IRL comes at a cost of S.A./perspective, one that is readily afforded due to the extreme advantages that mechanisms provide.

If 3rd person is implemented, its not going to stop me from playing.

What would forcing 1st person do for your teamwork? Your pilots would be very much more dependent on crewmembers for eyes on. Troops in transports would need to actively be scanning the terrain for AA threats to make the pilot aware of... With 3rd person this might not be all together necessary due to the wider FOV afforded.

Think of what going into a city means for someone driving a tank locked in 1st person...

Again, as long as I can go 1st person, I'll be fine. And I'll be crushin fools whether they have 3rd person or not.

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The problem with 3rd person is that it ruins it for people that use 1st person strictly. Exploiting in a way. Now it would be fine if it was a server option, but for a default option, no. Personally, I'm against adding 3rd person in every form just wouldn't work. I would argue you can make a fun non mil sim tactical shooter without 3rd person. Look at Rainbow Six, or SWAT 4. No third person, tactical, and fun. Is it complex like ARMA, no.

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Warning somewhat unrelated rant incoming:

 

Whether I agree or disagree with the video doesn't matter. I am simply trying to make you guys think about the things you suggest. I must admit that one of the most toe cringing combination of words for me is fast becoming "like in ARMA".

 

While I have nothing against ARMA, I do see this combination of words in every single suggestion thread. We are *not* making a mil sim, and while realism is extremely important for us (me more so than most), there are a few things that are even more important to us, such as facilitate teamwork (which 1st person only does) and the ability for us to be able to continue to do what we love - which is work on Squad.

 

Furthermore I am also a little disheartened when I see some of the PR/Mil Sim elitism spilling over to this forum and community. It is not healthy for growth of the community. There is a lot of hostility towards youtube personalities and lots of comments around this forum of how people dont want followers of said personalities around, or people that play other *less realistic* games to migrate over to this game. People always pile on to the "realism argument" and no one is allowed to challenge it.

 

/End rant that was somewhat unrelated to this thread and not directed at anyone in particular.

 

For the record I am personally against 3rd person cameras, but that doesn't matter at all. And Squad is likely to not have 3rd person cameras at all.

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Biggest reason I want 1st person locked;

Imagine your thought process when you hop in a tank in BF3.

"Ima rip into town and roll over shit and blow things up! WoooOOOOooH!"

Now, imagine you gotta lead a t-80 into a tight corridor teeming with infantry, and you can only see out safely through your little periscope.

 

Uhhh. Ima go ahead and stay back here till my infantry unit shows up... kthx.

 

This is a self-balancing mechanism for infantry versus armored units.

 

---

That being said.

 

I can see the reason 3rd person perspective *could* be justified in Air Vehicles.

 

In air vehicles, helicopters and fighters, you have MUCH more visual real-estate built into the machines. Helicopters have floor-windows and fighter-pilots have big glass bubbles. Without track-IR, accessing this realistic ability to see beyond the HUD is hard to approximate. Once we're all sporting Oculus Rifts, 1st person will make really really awesome sense for Air Assets, but. If we are looking for a comprimise, I think in the Air, I could do it.

On the ground, I think locking it in for at least combative vehicles is a part of the trade off of having inches of armor covering every side of you.

<3

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well said Z, this 'elitism' drew alot of people away from the PR forums, hopefully the same doesnt happen here. Sorry for off topic, as a faithful tank crewman in the PRT, i would have absolutely zero fun if 3rd person perspective were implemented. might as well be able to see tanks through buildings/walls. but it seems this discussion is pretty much done anyways. 

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I would argue you can make a fun non mil sim tactical shooter without 3rd person.

This. emphasis added.

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3RD person view iso far more efficient while driving in tight spots and lots of easier and mre smoother (someone could descripe it more joyful), but it have these "extra" vision boost problems. Which could and will end up some really severe "tank camping" issues. ..And for some it would kill the "immersion" which is a word I have just recently learned and started to hate in fast schedule.

 


I can see the reason 3rd person perspective *could* be justified in Air Vehicles.

 

In air vehicles, helicopters and fighters, you have MUCH more visual real-estate built into the machines. Helicopters have floor-windows and fighter-pilots have big glass bubbles. Without track-IR, accessing this realistic ability to see beyond the HUD is hard to approximate. Once we're all sporting Oculus Rifts, 1st person will make really really awesome sense for Air Assets, but. If we are looking for a comprimise, I think in the Air, I could do it.

<3

 

The reason I answered yes 3rd person view for flying objects (can we have spy flies as founder characters btw j/k) is that It would make my survivalibility a bit better while in passenger in the helicopter since the pilot could actually see where he/she is landing in tight spots. Kind what you said. While I like the idea of teamwork, in that particular transport vehicle I would just hope it isn't a guaranteed oneway ticket. Co-Pilot still would / could be needed as a map reader, a spotter and to use ie. counter measures and ropes etc..

 

well said Z, this 'elitism' drew alot of people away from the PR forums, hopefully the same doesnt happen here.

I noticed it (a kind of elitism) while coming here, which have grinded my gears once or twice, but only option for fight against such thing is just to stay and interact. It's especially ugly when it is directed in cocky and elitist way toward persons and gamers.

 

Warning somewhat unrelated rant incoming:

 

Whether I agree or disagree with the video doesn't matter. I am simply trying to make you guys think about the things you suggest. I must admit that one of the most toe cringing combination of words for me is fast becoming "like in ARMA".

 

While I have nothing against ARMA, I do see this combination of words in every single suggestion thread. We are *not* making a mil sim, and while realism is extremely important for us (me more so than most), there are a few things that are even more important to us, such as facilitate teamwork (which 1st person only does) and the ability for us to be able to continue to do what we love - which is work on Squad.

 

Furthermore I am also a little disheartened when I see some of the PR/Mil Sim elitism spilling over to this forum and community. It is not healthy for growth of the community. There is a lot of hostility towards youtube personalities and lots of comments around this forum of how people dont want followers of said personalities around, or people that play other *less realistic* games to migrate over to this game. People always pile on to the "realism argument" and no one is allowed to challenge it.

 

/End rant that was somewhat unrelated to this thread and not directed at anyone in particular.

Good points. *applauses*

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