bumfluff

Please no raised weapon as default

413 posts in this topic

I think it should be an option in settings, because not everyone wants it, but I totally understand you, OP. But i think it shouldnt be mandatory and should be an option. or a mod?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but how about having the gun drop the low ready after sprinting, and back to shooting position with right click?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but how about having the gun drop the low ready after sprinting, and back to shooting position with right click?

ya that too. but i would prefer it it were an option, not something mandatory, since not everyone wants it. i would like to see how this looks like if it becomes an option. because if u suddenly encounter an enemy, you must right click, then shoot again? in war, you may not have the expense of such time. Thats what im saying. lets see how the cards are dealt from the devs hands

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ya that too. but i would prefer it it were an option, not something mandatory, since not everyone wants it. i would like to see how this looks like if it becomes an option. because if u suddenly encounter an enemy, you must right click, then shoot again? in war, you may not have the expense of such time. Thats what im saying. lets see how the cards are dealt from the devs hands

 

If war you would never carry your gun ah high ready for that long and the odds of you encountering a soldier with your gun lowered is extremely high but the enemy is also probably not with a readied weapon either.

 

To explain this... take a brick or rock or 5lb weight or something and hold it out in front of you for 30-45 min. Then once you cant hold it any more trying to draw a circle inside a circle with the lines as close together as possible. Thats what it's like to hold your gun ready for extended periods of time and then trying to shoot it accurately. That is why NO ONE does it and why it looks so ridiculous in game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watched and passing on to the team to get feedback on it. 

 

Imagine that, we do listen and watch community videos! ;)

 

You just never know, worst thing anyone can do is nothing at all, just general advice by the way.  B)

The other great part of ground branch is the gun customisation part.

While squad is mostly regular soldiers who wouldn't be allowed too much weapon customisation, a bit would be nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I feel it would make it look like a better game, which is certainly something that should be done. Having it be a key has cons and pros 

 

- You have control of when you raise your weapon

- Idiots will walk into a building with it lowered and die and thus complain about it 

 

 So the natural thing is to make it like on walls, looking at teammates, looking at FOB, or after a certain amount of time you lower. It does look silly to having your weapon at the ready all the time. There are certainly options to tweak it a bit. 

 

 Bumfluff, the only customization we would maybe see is like the US rifleman class, they all have the m4 but different optics. I could just see them condensing that down into one role with the ability to choose between which optics you want to use. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny this was revived from a while back. Still though, it's something I'd personally like to see in SQUAD. It's not a requirement, at all, but it would be a nice addition.

 

I actually made a video on this very subject about a month back:

Personally i like the idea. Press Control to switch between lower weapon and raised weapon. Holding shift when lowered would make you sprint and the raised mode would make you walk faster. Everything is just pure logic and simple. Also the M249 with Red Dot wouldn't take half of the screen all the time ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally i like the idea. Press Control to switch between lower weapon and raised weapon. Holding shift when lowered would make you sprint and the raised mode would make you walk faster. Everything is just pure logic and simple. Also the M249 with Red Dot wouldn't take half of the screen all the time ;)

I believe that the issue of lowering the weapon should be an option. realistic, yet if not at all, a blue moon in games (blue moons are common now though..). but in game options there should be a thing. Thats my belief. I like the idea, but i dont think everyone wants it as a mandatory piece of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me re-iterate what I said in the video for simplicity's sake.

 

In Ground Branch, there's two main 'buttons' you press to alter character speed and stance: shift and middle mouse button (MMB) by default; I personally changed it to right mouse button (RMB).

 

MMB toggles the weapon from low ready, to shoulder ready. Shift is the 'speed' modifier. Much like SQUAD, WASD has you moving at the default slowest speed. Holding shift makes you move faster, based on the weapons position.

 

So from slowest to fastest - low ready walk (slow) -> shoulder ready walk (slow) -> shoulder ready run/shuffle (fast) -> low ready run (faster) -> sprint (fastest).

 

The trouble of having to manually raise the weapon isn't as tedious as most would think. For example, I changed my weapon toggle to RMB. As a result, it feels no different than ADSing in any other shooter. The difference here, is that you can use the scroll wheel to toggle between using your sight/optic or the 'point-shooting' stance. The game remembers the last stance you took with the weapon in the shoulder ready. So if I was looking through a holographic sight, clicked RMB to lower the weapon, when I click it again, it's back to looking through my holographic.

 

If you panic and instinctively left click with the weapon in the low ready, it'll automatically raise the weapon, and allow you to fire. It happens really fast, so it isn't a tedious slow toggle like in Arma 3. The way Arma 3 does it, is technically a lowered weapon posture (a relaxed demeanor). Ground Branch utilizes the low ready posture, meaning you're anticipating a threat. So raising the weapon takes very little time, and is comparable to most games ADS time.

 

There are a ton of benefits to such a system. Makes changing movement speeds far less tedious and natural; you're focusing on playing and controlling your character vs. which keys to hit to alter speed. You always have your fingers on WASD without compromising anything. You're not lasing friendlies for no good reason. It acts as a "safety" as well, in case you accidentally left click, it'll only raise the weapon instead of immediately firing. It grants full screen awareness, no intrusive weapon allowing you to seek out targets more efficiently. And it just looks good; more authentic.

 

I'd encourage you to download the free Tech Preview available on their website to demo it and get a feel for it. I can promise you, you'll probably end up loving the system/concept.

 

As I said in my original post, it isn't a requirement for SQUAD (it's amazing as is), and most people won't care too much. But it could be a nice addition to further enhance immersion and full body awareness/control.

 

P.S. mastah4, the M249 and Red Dot is exactly what I was thinking of in my head when I mentioned full screen awareness in the video.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still cringe at all dem raised weapons in videos guys...make it happen :P

 

And I pretty much sign everything Pepperbelly says in that video.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think best option would be to automatic like in PR ?(I mean third person view) ADS rises your weapon and 10 seconds after stopping ADS it lowers itself back. Pressing FIRE automatically rises you weapon and fires, again lowers itself few seconds after shooting. (there will be small delay caused by the need to rise your weapon and it would be good thing imho - reduced hipfire, people use ADS more when expecting contact).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think best option would be to automatic like in PR ?(I mean third person view) ADS rises your weapon and 10 seconds after stopping ADS it lowers itself back. Pressing FIRE automatically rises you weapon and fires, again lowers itself few seconds after shooting. (there will be small delay caused by the need to rise your weapon and it would be good thing imho - reduced hipfire, people use ADS more when expecting contact).

Why you don't want to have a bit more control of your player? Imagine this: You are clearing out a big compound with only 1-2 enemies in there, why would you want your weapon lowered automatically just a second before an enemy pops out? I don't like the PR option at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why you don't want to have a bit more control of your player? Imagine this: You are clearing out a big compound with only 1-2 enemies in there, why would you want your weapon lowered automatically just a second before an enemy pops out? I don't like the PR option at all.

Because as long as it's just aesthetic change, lot of people won't even bother with another button and they will keep running always rised and other half will complain about them running like that. So as long as you don't implement other mechanic connected with it like decreasing stamina/ changed walking animation/speed it won't work imho. Situation you brought up can be easily avoided by using ADS, I am not talking about walking with ADS all the time but when I am clearing some compound I ADS every 1 or 2 seconds on different places where I expect enemy - cover those windows, corners when you teammates move to another cover. This way I will never be caught off guard and with my weapon lowered. I just don't see any need of implementing another stance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because as long as it's just aesthetic change, lot of people won't even bother with another button and they will keep running always rised and other half will complain about them running like that. So as long as you don't implement other mechanic connected with it like decreasing stamina/ changed walking animation/speed it won't work imho. Situation you brought up can be easily avoided by using ADS, I am not talking about walking with ADS all the time but when I am clearing some compound I ADS every 1 or 2 seconds on different places where I expect enemy - cover those windows, corners when you teammates move to another cover. This way I will never be caught off guard and with my weapon lowered. I just don't see any need of implementing another stance.

ADSing every 1, 2 or 3 seconds just to cheat on the timer? that really sounds annoying and painful to me imho. We are talking about having 1 additional button, be it CTRL, that switches between lowered weapon and raised weapon. Running with raised weapon should be slower than sprinting. You really think people would not bother with 1 additional button that is located just below the sprint button (SHIFT) ?. Anyways even if that weapon mode switching is a bad idea then the PR automatic lower/raise weapon is even a worse solution and it should just stay in the current state.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have literally had this exact same conversation more than three times in this thread now. I think we should just wait and see what the devs cook up for us.

Maybe it's time for a lock?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have literally had this exact same conversation more than three times in this thread now. I think we should just wait and see what the devs cook up for us.

Maybe it's time for a lock?

INdeed. I'd like at least one dev to give some insight. If they cant, this thread should be swept away. Devs can't be sure ATM, because I believe they would go for what the majority says.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Double tapping Ctrl never caused me any issues. What exactly do you find "horrible and buggy" about it?

if you want to frame the issue soley on double tapping you only cover the HORRBILE part... double tapping for raising and lowering the weapon is merely HORRIBLE (and the fact that you couldnt set it up differently despite having like 5 different actions assignable for the thing was HALF-BAKED in addition).

the BUGGY part was refering to animation issues that where cause by raise/lower... it doesnt require further elaboration, it can be experienced by anyone who has arma (and isnt yet accustomed to bugged clunkyness to a dregree of indifference) :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The amount of hate Arma gets by people who don't understand it is unreal.

i dont know about you but in all humbleness i trained arma movement to a degree so that i actually learned to use my feet to extend my infantry movement control with usb foot switches.

based on the fact that i put quite some effort into it and mastered it with a certain rafinesse i think i am qualified enough to point to the fact that the raise/lower action in particular wasnt adequate.

I not even saying that arma didnt make some progress and even brought nice innovations into inf movement but the legacy issues are simply still present and you may well be defensive about it but it doesnt change the fact.

p.s. why dont you go jump up a curb? :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not a fan of the added inconvenience of having to press an extra key for lovering and raising weapons. I think an automated system that lowers your weapon if you dont use it for some time would fit Squad better. Sprinting would instantly lower it, pressing fire or ADS would instantly raise it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not a fan of the added inconvenience of having to press an extra key for lovering and raising weapons. I think an automated system that lowers your weapon if you dont use it for some time would fit Squad better. Sprinting would instantly lower it, pressing fire or ADS would instantly raise it.

Please read my earlier post in which i explained why the automatic system is a bad idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ADSing every 1, 2 or 3 seconds just to cheat on the timer? that really sounds annoying and painful to me imho. We are talking about having 1 additional button, be it CTRL, that switches between lowered weapon and raised weapon. Running with raised weapon should be slower than sprinting. You really think people would not bother with 1 additional button that is located just below the sprint button (SHIFT) ?. Anyways even if that weapon mode switching is a bad idea then the PR automatic lower/raise weapon is even a worse solution and it should just stay in the current state.

really shud stay like it is. we dont need people to argue and sht about that. just leave it the way it is or make it a non mandatory option

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please read my earlier post in which i explained why the automatic system is a bad idea.

I read your post already and it dosent change my opinion.

"ADSing every 1,2 or 3 seconds to cheat a timer" Go read my post again, when did i write anything about your weapon being lowered every 4 secs? I think the automated way would work, its just a matter of balancing the amount of time it would take for it to kick in.

And yes, im sure alot of players would HATE to have to push "just 1 extra button", thats why i'we suggested something less intrusive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read your post already and it dosent change my opinion.

"ADSing every 1,2 or 3 seconds to cheat a timer" Go read my post again, when did i write anything about your weapon being lowered every 4 secs? I think the automated way would work, its just a matter of balancing the amount of time it would take for it to kick in.

And yes, im sure alot of players would HATE to have to push "just 1 extra button", thats why i'we suggested something less intrusive.

That's the thing, its impossible to balance the amount of time until the weapon gets lowered automatically. In a close combat situation when an enemy pops out in front of you, your character decides that it is safe to lower his weapon because the C++ code told him so. Really? You're up for that? You would be rage quiting the game in no time ( I assume that you're aware of the fact that raising your weapon up again takes time too and even 1 second makes a huge difference in a battle). If having "just 1 extra button" that your pinkie finger can easily reach is such a big deal to you then i can tell that i've heard about games that require only mouse. Just saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time based is easily the worst possible way to do it.

 

Just make it a keybinding like Arma does it, those that want to use it wll use it and those that don't want to use it *gasps* won't use it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now