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Please no raised weapon as default

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I'd hate having lowered hands in 3p but ready-to-kill in 1p, totally kills immersion.

 

Well first, you'll just never see yourself as 3p, ever. Not sure whose immersion you talk about since other players don't see your 1p view either, so they just dont know if you're aiming or not.

Second, in PR, the weapon is lowered only when having the weapon down to the hip. Are you really ready-to-kill when having your weapon down to the hip ? When you're not aiming ?

 

PS : remember we talk about situations from slow paced games, not CoD or BF.

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Well first, you'll just never see yourself as 3p, ever. Not sure whose immersion you talk about since other players don't see your 1p view either, so they just dont know if you're aiming or not.

Second, in PR, the weapon is lowered only when having the weapon down to the hip. Are you really ready-to-kill when having your weapon down to the hip ? When you're not aiming ?

 

PS : remember we talk about situations from slow paced games, not CoD or BF.

 

I think he means that if you watch someone and the weapon is raised up, but in reality the player actually has the weapon lowered in 1st person.

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Yea maybe I should have clarified that to me, in a game where 1p and 3p are seperated, the lowest position a weapon can reach is to the hip.

Thing is there's probably no game in which the weapons go away from the screen when it's lowered.

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Doesn't seem like something that would serve gameplay and would just be an annoyance once you actually get in to a fight, the only reason I would see it being implemented is if it's automatic when you aim at a friendly or running around no-fire zones (main base).

 

ArmA is a sim and there's more downtime in that game, PR/Squad is more action packed and is supposed to have simple/intuitive controls so this feature doesn't make sense.

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*Cough* Stamina gets depleted by keeping the weapon in high ready position for prolonged periods of time *cough*. No seriously, adding a penalty for having your weapon raised all the time should be implemented to simply prevent the never ending immersion breaker where everybody walks around with it pointed regardless of activity and situation. By that I do not mean some sort of block, merely an additional minor sway/bob/shake to the aim, it would suffice to encourage people in passive roles and non-combat situations to lower their weapons without implementing a potentially annoying system (auto-lower, perhaps only after prolong period of afk, say a min, or 2), while also keeping players combat effective even with said drawback.

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Doesn't seem like something that would serve gameplay and would just be an annoyance once you actually get in to a fight

How would it be an annoyance? when you're going into a fight you raise your weapon and when you're out of it you could lower it. You don't have to.

and doesn't serve gameplay? how about an unobstructed view? how about not being shot by that AFK guy who just alt+tabbed back in? How about extra stamina conservation? Not to mention that they seem to be really interested in making cinematography a pretty interesting thing, man i'm sure it'll look great to have everyone weapons up all the time in videos...

 

the only reason I would see it being implemented is if it's automatic when you aim at a friendly or running around no-fire zones (main base)

If they do that they might as well add a key binding to it so people can do it whenever. Literally no reason not to.

 

ArmA is a sim and there's more downtime in that game, PR/Squad is more action packed and is supposed to have simple/intuitive controls so this feature doesn't make sense.

first off, Arma is NOT a sim.

 

and secondly, what's so complicated about hitting a key on your keyboard? I don't how or why people keep bringing that up as if you have to do some kind of killer instinct combo to lower it. If you've played arma then you know how simple it is, if you haven't, you just tap Left CTRL twice(can rebind it to 1 key/button if that's too complicated for you).

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and secondly, what's so complicated about hitting a key on your keyboard? I don't how or why people keep bringing that up as if you have to do some kind of killer instinct combo to lower it. If you've played arma then you know how simple it is, if you haven't, you just tap Left CTRL twice(can rebind it to 1 key/button if that's too complicated for you.

Why it needs to have an extra keybind? What prevents from having it in Right Mouse Button where the aiming function already is?

Tap the RMB once to lower/raise your weapon. Press it down to aim down the sights.

Is it that, that some people wants to have the aiming as a toggleable function, or am i missing something else? I have posted in this topic about these concerns a couple of times already but i haven't got a proper answer yet.

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Why it needs to have an extra keybind? What prevents from having it in Right Mouse Button where the aiming function already is?

Tap the RMB once to lower/raise your weapon. Press it down to aim down the sights.

Is it that, that some people wants to have the aiming as a toggleable function, or am i missing something else? I have posted in this topic about these concerns a couple of times already but i haven't got a proper answer yet.

 

Right click needs to toggle ADS, most prefer it that way. I honestly don't know how people deal with the hold RMB to ADS, how do you even keep covering a position for more than a minute.

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How would it be an annoyance? when you're going into a fight you raise your weapon and when you're out of it you could lower it. You don't have to.

and doesn't serve gameplay? how about an unobstructed view? how about not being shot by that AFK guy who just alt+tabbed back in? How about extra stamina conservation? Not to mention that they seem to be really interested in making cinematography a pretty interesting thing, man i'm sure it'll look great to have everyone weapons up all the time in videos...

 

If they do that they might as well add a key binding to it so people can do it whenever. Literally no reason not to.

 

first off, Arma is NOT a sim.

 

and secondly, what's so complicated about hitting a key on your keyboard? I don't how or why people keep bringing that up as if you have to do some kind of killer instinct combo to lower it. If you've played arma then you know how simple it is, if you haven't, you just tap Left CTRL twice(can rebind it to 1 key/button if that's too complicated for you).

 

Unobstructed view - Why would this be a problem if you weren't in a fire fight? and if you were in / expecting a fire fight, why wouldn't you have your gun up? the view models in Squad don't take up half the screen.

Accidental Alt+Tab - Honestly, happens waaay too seldom for it to warrant a specific animation / function. Could just be a mechanical thing where there's a 1 second delay till you can shoot after you Alt+Tab instead - problem solved.

Cinematography - NO actual gameplay purpose, purely for visuals sake.

 

You're adding additional key bind(s) to a game that will have plenty, take a quick peak at the PR key binds lists and ask yourself if a newcomer would appreciate less or more.

 

Automatic lowered weapons in main base would actually serve a gameplay purpose because it is forbidden (to shoot) on most servers and the player gets a visual confirmation as to why he isn't able to shoot his weapon, ie. he doesn't have to ask why his weapon doesn't work if it's just "disabled".

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Cinematography - NO actual gameplay purpose, purely for visuals sake.

 

Visuals is linked to immersion, which is linked to gameplay.

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Right click needs to toggle ADS, most prefer it that way. I honestly don't know how people deal with the hold RMB to ADS, how do you even keep covering a position for more than a minute.

 

It's not harder than holding your finger down.

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Visuals is linked to immersion, which is linked to gameplay.

 

The immersion part of it is not worth it in this case, also he's talking about videos of the game and machinima type stuff - which I'm sure, the people who are in to will mod themselves if they are dedicated enough.

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Right click needs to toggle ADS, most prefer it that way. I honestly don't know how people deal with the hold RMB to ADS, how do you even keep covering a position for more than a minute.

Hmmm... personally i don't find holding down my finger that difficult. Maybe some people that are used to have the ADS as a toggleable function will find the holding system a bit inconvenient, but i like to think that system more as a ''realistic'' feature. Like when you're aiming your weapon in real life, you actually are holding it up on your shoulder. If we have the ADS holdable in the game, it sort of ''imitates'' the thing you're doing, when you're aiming your weapon down the sights in real life. I know that many people still doesn't like that but i personally like to think it in that way.

But of course, that thing is not relevant anymore when your weapon is mounted, or supported on something, like a bipod.

Since your weapon is supported, it's not possible to lower it. So In that case, it would be more practical to have the ADS toggleable.

What do you guys think?

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I like seeing my weapon all the time, just because they look so cool and besides I don't want to forget what weapon I have on me  :D

 

Besides, in real life our peripheral vision is much larger so even if you are running and walking with your gun down you always see your gun! Try it! It is not a focused view but you always see your gun in your hands if it is as big as a rifle!

 

And don't get me started on the "touch" sense that gives us feedback in real life of having something in our hands while in games we only have the visual and sound feedback. 

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Unobstructed view - Why would this be a problem if you weren't in a fire fight? and if you were in / expecting a fire fight, why wouldn't you have your gun up? the view models in Squad don't take up half the screen.

Accidental Alt+Tab - Honestly, happens waaay too seldom for it to warrant a specific animation / function. Could just be a mechanical thing where there's a 1 second delay till you can shoot after you Alt+Tab instead - problem solved.

Cinematography - NO actual gameplay purpose, purely for visuals sake.

 

You're adding additional key bind(s) to a game that will have plenty, take a quick peak at the PR key binds lists and ask yourself if a newcomer would appreciate less or more.

 

Automatic lowered weapons in main base would actually serve a gameplay purpose because it is forbidden (to shoot) on most servers and the player gets a visual confirmation as to why he isn't able to shoot his weapon, ie. he doesn't have to ask why his weapon doesn't work if it's just "disabled".

I really don't get why you seem so against something that no one would be forcing you to use. 

 

And again, if they're already going to add lowering weapon why not have a key binding for those that want to do it outside of the base(if they were to do it that) Saying that the game doesn't need more keybinding because, new players, has to be one of the poorest excuses i have ever heard. 1 more keybinding isn't suddenly going to overload your brain, especially when you don't have to use it.

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I really don't get why you seem so against something 

 

 

Because it's a waste of development time, like I've explained, it serves no gameplay purpose.

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IMO, stamina conservation should be in The Squad. Period.

IMO, different stances is a must. Running around with your weapon ready on the huge map is too primitive and boring and completely not new-gen.

What's the deal with these magical "new players"? Tbh, we are all gonna be "new players" once The Squad is released. Don't make The Squad primitive and lacking cool unique features because magical "new players" will prefer another survival-minecraft-lifesim to The Squad. Ask yourself a question:"Do you really want to simplify The Squad so more headless chickens can have fun in there?".

 

How many "new players" joined BF2:PR during these last 2 years? Did BF2:PR died out because of lack of new players? IMO, PR community is the most dedicated community I have ever seen, let's not forget that.

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IMO Squad needs immersion. That was one of the things that made PR great.

I really dont want to travel kilometers with my weapons raised. This looks completely unrealistic, dumb and boring.

I would love to see this system:

Weapons goes into travel mode after some time not ADS or shooting.

You have a key where you can bring up your weapon in ready mode without firing or ADS.

You dont have to press a key for travel mode, its automatic.

So player has to think wisely about when raising his weapon.

Travel mode gives stamina bonus.

That would be a perfect system in my opinion. Automatic enough to not hinder gameplay and manuell enough to make it tactical important.

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I would love to see this system:

Weapons goes into travel mode after some time not ADS or shooting.

 

And then an enemy pops out in front of you... This is not a good system. Either have it as a key or don't have it at all.

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And then an enemy pops out in front of you... This is not a good system. Either have it as a key or don't have it at all.

 

What about my system is not understandable? You can press the key to raise your weapon whenever you want. And that should be kinda instant.

So if you know you are in a hot situation you can press the key or toggle it to make sure that your weapon is on alert.

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As it stands today, i have no issue not seeing this in the immediate future. The good news is that its not off the table and it seems reasonable enough to me for them to come up with a system and test it.

 

I envision a system where there are three general weapon stances:

 

  • Relaxed  Position (weapon  canted across your chest - barrel pointed toward the ground toward the left)
  • Ready Position (current default weapon position / hip fire position)
  • ADS (current precision aiming using optics and iron sights)

Maybe I'm going out on a limb but these can be important to game-paly once they are tied into the player movement, posing, and stamina systems. Having yet to play the game, this is largely conjecture on my part.

  • Relaxed: unable to use weapon system; ability to sprint and/or generally move quicker; x% reduction in the rate at which stamina is consumed and x% decrease in the time it takes to recoup stamina - envisioned to be useful when having to sprint or hump moderate / long distances
  • Ready: ability to use the weapon system w/ reduce accuracy; sprinting for x time will automatically put weapon into relaxed state to facilitate sprint; x% reduction in the rate at which stamina is consumed and x% increase in time it takes to recoup stamina - envisioned to be useful for majority of play time
  • ADS: ability to use weapon system w/ far improved accuracy; sprinting will automatically put weapon into relaxed state to facilitate sprint; ability to toggle out of ADS to ready state; x% reduction in the rate at which stamina is consumed and x% decrease in time it takes to recoup stamina - envisioned to be used during precision shooting at short to moderate distance engagements including CQB

As far as movement  (big thanks to Wartick for helping iterate / discuss this; also note that there would be transitions between each of these that simply require the player to start walking, start jogging or start sprinting)

  • Walking: The default movement for ADS, offers improved accuracy when in ready position (doesn't automatically put player into ADS, ADS requires player initiation)
  • Jogging: The default movement for ready (because the player by default is in jogging mode), reduce accuracy for ready stance when compared against walking
  • Sprinting: The default movement for relaxed; unable to use weapon system

As far as 1st and 3rd person, i have to assume that its not beyond the realm of feasibility to sync those animations.

 

This is just me typing out loud. I've tried to consider key usage and simplicity as most of what i wrote out would be code rather than player decision. Like i said, just me typing out loud :)

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As it stands today, i have no issue not seeing this in the immediate future. The good news is that its not off the table and it seems reasonable enough to me for them to come up with a system and test it.

 

I envision a system where there are three general weapon stances:

 

  • Relaxed  Position (weapon  canted across your chest - barrel pointed toward the ground toward the left)
  • Ready Position (current default weapon position / hip fire position)
  • ADS (current precision aiming using optics and iron sights)

Maybe I'm going out on a limb but these can be important to game-paly once they are tied into the player movement, posing, and stamina systems. Having yet to play the game, this is largely conjecture on my part.

  • Relaxed: unable to use weapon system; ability to sprint and/or generally move quicker; x% reduction in the rate at which stamina is consumed and x% decrease in the time it takes to recoup stamina - envisioned to be useful when having to sprint or hump moderate / long distances
  • Ready: ability to use the weapon system w/ reduce accuracy; sprinting for x time will automatically put weapon into relaxed state to facilitate sprint; x% reduction in the rate at which stamina is consumed and x% increase in time it takes to recoup stamina - envisioned to be useful for majority of play time
  • ADS: ability to use weapon system w/ far improved accuracy; sprinting will automatically put weapon into relaxed state to facilitate sprint; ability to toggle out of ADS to ready state; x% reduction in the rate at which stamina is consumed and x% decrease in time it takes to recoup stamina - envisioned to be used during precision shooting at short to moderate distance engagements including CQB

As far as movement  (big thanks to Wartick for helping iterate / discuss this; also note that there would be transitions between each of these that simply require the player to start walking, start jogging or start sprinting)

  • Walking: The default movement for ADS, offers improved accuracy when in ready position (doesn't automatically put player into ADS, ADS requires player initiation)
  • Jogging: The default movement for ready (because the player by default is in jogging mode), reduce accuracy for ready stance when compared against walking
  • Sprinting: The default movement for relaxed; unable to use weapon system

 

This is just me typing out loud. I've tried to consider key usage and simplicity as most of what i wrote out would be code rather than player decision. Like i said, just me typing out loud :)

 

Very nice,"Rush The Bus" very nice indeed!

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I just don't want to see soldiers running everywhere with their weapons pointed forward, simply because it looks retarded.

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The discussion in this thread has mostly been garbage because only like 3 posters are recognizing the difference between the hipfire position and a weapon shouldered position.

Everybody is just talking about different things instead of the same subject matter.

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I really don't think it's fair to write everyone off like that.

Can you maybe offer your two cents? I'm Interested in what you envision as the best case scenario.

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