bumfluff

Please no raised weapon as default

413 posts in this topic

I was about to make this thread.

I would personally like to see it implemented like this:

3 Positions (1 of them dynamic): Down, Up and Floating
Down - your weapon is down
Up - opposite of down
Floating - your weapon is disconnected from your shoulder, you are not bracing


Affecters: Fire, Aim Down Sights, Sprint
Affected: Accuracy/Sway, Fire Mode and Inventory Switch, Movement, Stamina Consumption and Stamina Refresh speeds

Effects
-/permanent effect
effect increasing over time
- effect diminishing over time
+ increasing over time
+ diminishes

++ more pronounced effect
Down
Accuracy - -
Fire Mode +
Movement + (profile height -, leaning angle +, walking speed +, sprinting speed +, jump +, changing to prone +)     
Stamina Refresh + (walking +, standing ++, crouched +++)
Stamina Consumption - (crouching/sneaking --, start/end of sprint -)

Uses: While moving out of an captured objective you lower your weapon. You move faster and your stamina lasts longer. If you do come across enemies, it is faster for you to change to an appropriate firemode or weapon depending on their distance, the environment or type. You also lower your profile and clear your view. Possibly decreasing the noise you make because your body is relaxed.

 

Down + Lean + Fire = Floating
Accuracy - - - - - -
Fire Mode, Inventory - - - -
Movement - - - (lean +)
Stamina Refresh -
Stamina Consuption ++

Uses: You're pinned and need to supress the enemy. You are out of grenades and there's a group of enemies behind a wall, that's just a little too high. You do have a grenade, but can't make the throw without exposing and getting shot.

Down + ADS = ADS
Acc -
Down + Fire = Up
Acc +
Floating + ADS = Up
Acc - - -
ADS + Down = Up
Up + Down = Down


Control SCHEMES
Down = 2x Sprint key
AND OR
Down = Hold Forward + Backward key (for like 1.5 sec)

Up from Down = Fire key

ADS = ADS key

More on ADS... 

I personally think there should be a way to toggle the focus, while in ADS. Also replace the focus time limit with increased sway the longer you hold it. 

Point and Case
...would be to make Squad more adaptable for players, when fighting in different environments and at different ranges.
In an open area, but up-close you'd want to keep your weapon up at all times. In closed areas you might want to keep it down or even engage the Float in places like tunnels. Whereas when moving between points or flanking unsuspecting enemies weapon Down would be the go-to.
Coupled with the aforementioned gun collision system and the free look system, which I am sure is on it's way would make Squad's gameplay more dynamic and not so monotonous(not in a good way) as it often gets.

ps: mightve missed or botched a couple things, but the premise is made clear in teh p&c 
 

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You're over complicating this - just get rid of the true 1st person system. No more shitty sights and you could focus on animations like these, without any additional buttons.

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1 hour ago, banOkay said:

You're over complicating this - just get rid of the true 1st person system. No more shitty sights and you could focus on animations like these, without any additional buttons.

;)

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...yeah I realized. Well you could just make it so that when you have free look you first aim the gun down, then you click free look, position your head normally then hold free look to toggle it and there you go.
I honestly could not be without the true first person, well... what I mean by that is being able to see my body really - I guess the camera doesn't need to be controlled by the body, I even think it would look better to have the body hang from the neck, but whatever... I am sure whatever the devs make will be good enough

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I'd like Squad without raised weapons, like how ArmA 2 had it.  But ArmA 3's "combat stance" system was also nice because, in reality, you can kinda jog with a weapon up, but it does tire you out.

 

I'm almost inclined to suggest a separate "arm fatigue" stamina bar that gets used up for holding your gun too much, and it increases weapon sway.  But that may be too complicated.

 

Then again, does anyone really expect simplicity for a tactical shooter like this?  I know I don't.

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+1

I think Arma 3 is a worthy comparison, but their system is very clunky. When you lower/raise a weapon when walking, your soldier will continue to walk straight for 1-3 seconds and there is no way to interrupt it. Sometimes pushing a different key immedialty afterwards, might interrupt raising the weapon. Its a nice feature to have, but in combat its best not to mess with it due to the clunkiness. It'll just end up getting you killed. I do use it for traveling long distances as having your weapon lowered has a big impact on saving stamina.

 

I think this would be a nice addition to Squad, but obviously it should be done in a smooth and functional fashion.

For example

1. Keybind to lower or raise your weapon. (Like pushing "V" for example.)

2. Pushing right click would raise your weapon and immediatly ADS.

3. Pushing left click would raise your weapon, ready to be fired.

 

I think this way the system would remain smooth and not compromise in your reaction time.

Having these 3 methods would allow even a player in panic clicking left click while his weapon is lowered, to raise it and fire at the enemy. You wouldn't have to "remember any complex keybindings". Just one key, or simply use your mouse to fire or ADS.

I would not like this to be an automatic function as i would see problems with that like other people.

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On 10/25/2016 at 4:04 AM, banOkay said:

You're over complicating this - just get rid of the true 1st person system. No more shitty sights and you could focus on animations like these, without any additional buttons.

I agree 100%. The benefits of true first person don't go much further than immersion, at the cost of negatively affecting the gameplay. TFP gives us bugs like misaligned sights, where aiming up and down shift your sights left and right, weapons and body parts clipping through literally everything, and just issues with immersion like having soldiers constantly shoulder their weapons. I honestly don't think that TFP is worth all the problems that it brings, better to just add legs to a traditional first person rig.

 

Also, switching to a traditional first person rig will allow us to have lowered weapons without the need to add overly complex systems just to raise and lower your firearm. I feel like adding a lower/raise button is not only completely unnecessary, but would also probably feel very clunky and awkward. 

Edited by ILikeTastyBread

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6 hours ago, Shields said:

+1

I think Arma 3 is a worthy comparison, but their system is very clunky. When you lower/raise a weapon when walking, your soldier will continue to walk straight for 1-3 seconds and there is no way to interrupt it. Sometimes pushing a different key immedialty afterwards, might interrupt raising the weapon. Its a nice feature to have, but in combat its best not to mess with it due to the clunkiness. It'll just end up getting you killed. I do use it for traveling long distances as having your weapon lowered has a big impact on saving stamina.

 

I think this would be a nice addition to Squad, but obviously it should be done in a smooth and functional fashion.

For example

1. Keybind to lower or raise your weapon. (Like pushing "V" for example.)

2. Pushing right click would raise your weapon and immediatly ADS.

3. Pushing left click would raise your weapon, ready to be fired.

 

I think this way the system would remain smooth and not compromise in your reaction time.

Having these 3 methods would allow even a player in panic clicking left click while his weapon is lowered, to raise it and fire at the enemy. You wouldn't have to "remember any complex keybindings". Just one key, or simply use your mouse to fire or ADS.

I would not like this to be an automatic function as i would see problems with that like other people.

 

I'd like to point out that the issue you cited is caused by using arma 3's "combat stance for 3 sec." button, which is a pretty irrelevant button since you can just toggle combat stance off and on, and you won't get the "continue to walk straight" issue.

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Can anyone say ready up drills? You're not supposed to use your optics in cqb unless you're Support by fire or pulling security..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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My brain hurts from this. Why doesn't anyone ever think about how complicated they're making the game by suggesting things to be as realistic as possible. A PURE simulation is no fun and is only useful for training. 

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12 minutes ago, Robin Sage said:

My brain hurts from this. Why doesn't anyone ever think about how complicated they're making the game by suggesting things to be as realistic as possible. A PURE simulation is no fun and is only useful for training. 

One more key is to much?!

 

I still think this feature would be awesome.

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could be as simple as adding in a timer after Aim Down Sight is pressed, say after 10 seconds with out pressing ADS(right click) your gun automaticlly lowers same for left click could ready up (off hi type thing but not ads and another left click would start shooting once stopped stays at ready position unless ADS is click or more shots are let off but ultimately not pressing any weapon functions button automatically lowers your weapon..?

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12 hours ago, ILikeTastyBread said:

Also, switching to a traditional first person rig will allow us to have lowered weapons without the need to add overly complex systems just to raise and lower your firearm. I feel like adding a lower/raise button is not only completely unnecessary, but would also probably feel very clunky and awkward. 


How would you achieve that just by removing true first person?

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1 hour ago, koschilein said:

One more key is to much?!

 

I still think this feature would be awesome.

Why would we need a raise and lower weapon key? Please tell me. 

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19 minutes ago, Peerun said:


How would you achieve that just by removing true first person?

 

Because you would have a world model, which everyone else sees, and a first person model which only you see. This means you can have the world model could have the weapon lowered but the first person could have it raised.
 

I don't like the solution though, simply because I think it's better to try and go 1:1 for what a single player and what everyone else sees. Apart from just having a philosophical issue about not everyone seeing the same thing there's the issue that you as the player don't truly know what your character is doing, so you might have your head or hand around a corner by accident.

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lol. All these complicated ass solutions and parallel universes for a purely cosmetic look. Yeah no. 

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4 minutes ago, Robin Sage said:

Why would we need a raise and lower weapon key? Please tell me. 

We don´t need it, it would just be a lot cooler to have it. I myself think it is stupid that you have a raised weapon all the time, it just looks wrong when you stand in your main with a raised weapon.

 

In BF2/PR it was automatic to have your weapon in lowered position if you where not shooting, I also don´t like that to much and prefer the way Arma 3 does it. But that is just my opinion.

 

2 minutes ago, Robin Sage said:

lol. All these complicated ass solutions and parallel universes for a purely cosmetic look. Yeah no. 

I don´t get why it is so complicated to have a dedicated button for one more function....

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People talking about two different world views. List of all other shit to include. Scroll up. 

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On 25.10.2016 at 0:04 PM, banOkay said:

You're over complicating this - just get rid of the true 1st person system. No more shitty sights and you could focus on animations like these, without any additional buttons.

Praise the lord.

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On 11/15/2016 at 1:03 AM, Robin Sage said:

My brain hurts from this. Why doesn't anyone ever think about how complicated they're making the game by suggesting things to be as realistic as possible. A PURE simulation is no fun and is only useful for training. 

 

That is incredibly subjective.  Some people don't like complicated games, you're right, but I do.  I love flight sims.  Making this into more of an infantry simulator like ArmA would be fine.

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30 minutes ago, NikolaiLev said:

 

That is incredibly subjective.  Some people don't like complicated games, you're right, but I do.  I love flight sims.  Making this into more of an infantry simulator like ArmA would be fine.

ArmA isn't an infantry simulator in the least. If you want arma, then play arma. If you want Squad then play Squad. 

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2 hours ago, Robin Sage said:

ArmA isn't an infantry simulator in the least. If you want arma, then play arma. If you want Squad then play Squad. 

 

Sure, but this thread deals with changing the game, and thus changing what "if you want Squad play Squad" entails.  Just because a change makes Squad more like ArmA doesn't make it a bad change.  The two don't have to be different for its own sake.  If a feature improves the game then it ought to be implemented.

 

And I think making unraised weapon the default way to move about would make the game more realistic and tactical, and thus better in what it's trying to be: a realistic and tactical shooter.

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I would appreciate this from a practical point of view, too. For example walking around with a SAW w/ a red dot is effectively taping up half of your screen, unless you're willing to look at the ground.

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I'm just another guy saying that is really really necessary and that the game will look much better with a weapon rising/lowering function.

 

 

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