bumfluff

Please no raised weapon as default

413 posts in this topic

I hate to be the one to reference Arma... but the combat stance function is gold!


 


For those not familiar it is a function that allows you to have your weapon raised while moving, at the expense of some of your stamina. In combat stance you moved slightly slower but have the advantage of a raised weapon. Keybinding this to a mouse button makes for one of the most fluid methods of transitioning from "low-ready" to "raised" position.


 


This will bring me to the topic of walking in Squad, since it is really not too far off the standard running speed. I think it would be an interesting idea if the "walk" function was used in conjunction with a combat stance in order to minimize the creation of another keybind. If weapons were set to low-ready as a standard stance, one could use a toggled "walk" keybind to raise their weapon. This can applied to both static and mobile scenarios. If static, simply press the button to raise weapon, press again to lower. If mobile, one could run low-ready, and upon activation of "walk" the player would: Raise weapon, run slightly slower, and use more stamina to move with weapon shouldered. The only affect this should have on ADS is the time it takes to complete the actual raising of your weapon to aim down sights. Whether you are low-ready or raised, ADS will activate, but with faster acquisition if already in raised position, naturally.   


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Watching your team moving together bobbing up and down while aiming their weapons at each other to look behind them is a bit silly to witness.

So im all for a solution to lowering weapons.

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On 13-3-2015 at 0:31 AM, bumfluff said:

Perhaps the biggest issue for me that would seperate this game from other more game orientated shooters is the issue of having a raised weapon all the time.

Think about it. You imagine trying to run with a weapon aimed. It's impossible. Likewise, your arms would get tired if you had your weapon up all the time.

I reckon if the developers really want to make this game different from all the rest you should have to click your mouse once to bring your weapon to bear. Or something like that. And you would get fatigued if it was at ready all time time.

My two cents.cheers.

Can you add a vote to your topic?

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Somebody give me the cliff notes for this amazingly long thread, please!

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i just add my view again,

 

as long there is an option for it to auto drop/raise and effects nothing within the Gameplay at all. i be happy to get this feature if added.

Edited by RaulO4

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One more bit of information for the server to track for every player while adding little to nothing for gameplay. Im for it at no performance cost in maybe a year after they get done with things that matter.

 

 

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2 hours ago, RaulO4 said:

i just add my view again,

 

as long there is an option for it to auto drop/raise and effects nothing within the Gameplay at all. i be happy to get this feature if added.

This^ The way it was done in PR is good (auto raise and lower your weapon - no need for arma stance system)

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There are a lot of reasons for a lowered gun position.

  • signaling readiness
  • gun doesn't cover field of view (mg, sniper)
  • possibly faster stamina regeneration and/or faster walking

IMO this is a must have and I'm looking forward to it.

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18 hours ago, Disco said:

This^ The way it was done in PR is good (auto raise and lower your weapon - no need for arma stance system)

 

Please no auto lower-raise weapon.

If you dont want to use this feature, dont use it. Nothing is easier than going to options and unbind the key to raise/lower weapon.

One key that only people use who want to use it. Thats how it is in Arma. Dont tell me you are forced to use the weapon lowering key. I know a lot of people not even knowing how to lower/raise their weapon in Arma because they never bothered doing it.

I think that people who dont want to use that feature should even talk about it because it doesnt affect their gameplay at all. The only thing they are going to notice is that people who look into options and bind a key to that feature are sometimes running around with their weapon lowered. No drawbacks no perks nothing, just a guy running around with their weapon lowered, because he pressed a key.

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Have devs played Op Flashpoint Red Dragon? Their weapon stance system is the simpliest, esiest and most functional for this question.

 

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Fallout 4 has a mod which allows the player to do place the weapon in a relaxed position when not firing, it adds alot to immersion and is one of the best mods made so early on after the game was released.

 

If the player wants too shoot they just press left click one time and the weapon will get into firing poistion. It works relatively well in Fallout 4, I don't see any problem with Squad.

 

 

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@Shenk, I think I'd prefer to have the trigger ready at all times and be a constant danger. Two clicks in an unexpected circumstance can really be the difference between life and death.

Edited by Lutz_Persn
Added receiver.

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+1 I'm all for this. It was a feature I really appreciated in PR and something I would like to see here

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22 minutes ago, Shenk said:

Fallout 4 has a mod which allows the player to do place the weapon in a relaxed position when not firing, it adds alot to immersion and is one of the best mods made so early on after the game was released.

 

If the player wants too shoot they just press left click one time and the weapon will get into firing poistion. It works relatively well in Fallout 4, I don't see any problem with Squad.

 

 

 

or the weapon fire the moment the player press Fire. this way you wont have the issue the poster below you posted and you get your weapon down. its very easy to streamline the animation to be fluid and no delay between the player pressing fire and the character raising/firing his weapon.

 

No one loses, everyone is good, and gameplay is not effective in anyway.

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I think a lot of people misunderstand the concept of lowering the weapon. You dont have your weapon lowered when you need to fire. You dont lower it in Close Quarter Combat. You lower it when you are walking or standing without any threat nearby. If there is a chance that at anytime an enemy could come around the corner and shoot you, you dont have it lowered. Thats how simple it is.

 

And then again, if you dont want it you dont use it.

How can anyone complain about such a feature.

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Definetily need for FPS aimed on slow paced gameplay and extensive stamina management. How I see it:

 

Default position with lowered gun. Auto-raising on fire/ads key and while walking.

Keeping gun raised during 5-20 seconds (depends on gun: longer for pistols and carbines, shorter for full-sized rifles and machineguns) after turning off ADS, last shot while non-ADS or stopping movement for standing stance, 20-30 seconds for crouch.

 

Auto lowering when player starts to run or changes stance from prone to crouch/standing.

 

Speed of transfering from low ready to ADS depends on type of gun, faster for pistols, slower for machineguns and sniper rifles.

 

Keeping gun raised progressively increases starting values for sights tremor, if player turns ADS.

 

Moreover, it would help make Non-ADS worthless without arcadey 2x recoil (will work perfect with ADZ).

Edited by ZiGreen

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On 27/5/2015 at 0:23 PM, Soulvaki said:

And if it doesn't change from what it is now...oh well. I'm just happy the game is being made. If this really breaks it for you, maybe you should try going outside. Or go try out Airsoft. That's bound to be more realism for you.

 

I don't know why people insist to see Airsoft as a legit based thing for tactical simulation. Saying that Airsoft is a "real combat experience" now you need to go outside more often... Airsoft = geardos...

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A old rule from PR i allways gave my Squadmembers

If you are in base, take the Field Dressings in your hand.

 

Simple reason. The A..holes Shooting at friendlys in base. (Woundet only, never killed)

Sometimes a Admin was there and had to decide who shoot. 

Really bad for the A..hole when you have your Field dressing out all the time
 

Quote

 

I don't know why people insist to see Airsoft as a legit based thing for tactical simulation.

 

Gotcha is in germany Illegal, Laserdome too.

(At least you get no new Licenses to open Playgrounds)

Edited by Royal Deluxe

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This actually seems like a pretty damn good idea, especially for the newer players who have trouble identifying targets in close proximity. It sort of gives some people a chance to correct themselves if need be, at the same maybe we should have a choice in how it works depending on teams?

After watching a lot of military vids online (LiveLeak etc), there does seem to be a lot of running around hip firing in the Middle East. 

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On 1/10/2016 at 1:52 AM, whoiscasey said:

I hate to be the one to reference Arma... but the combat stance function is gold!

 

 

 

 

For those not familiar it is a function that allows you to have your weapon raised while moving, at the expense of some of your stamina. In combat stance you moved slightly slower but have the advantage of a raised weapon. Keybinding this to a mouse button makes for one of the most fluid methods of transitioning from "low-ready" to "raised" position.

 

 

 

 

 

This will bring me to the topic of walking in Squad, since it is really not too far off the standard running speed. I think it would be an interesting idea if the "walk" function was used in conjunction with a combat stance in order to minimize the creation of another keybind. If weapons were set to low-ready as a standard stance, one could use a toggled "walk" keybind to raise their weapon. This can applied to both static and mobile scenarios. If static, simply press the button to raise weapon, press again to lower. If mobile, one could run low-ready, and upon activation of "walk" the player would: Raise weapon, run slightly slower, and use more stamina to move with weapon shouldered. The only affect this should have on ADS is the time it takes to complete the actual raising of your weapon to aim down sights. Whether you are low-ready or raised, ADS will activate, but with faster acquisition if already in raised position, naturally.   

 

this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On 1/10/2016 at 1:52 AM, whoiscasey said:

 

 

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I would love to see weapons lowered! Would help with capturing footage.

 

 

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Old tps SOCOM had it where your weapon is naturally at rest and if you tapped R1 one time it would raise up. Its called "guns hot". Going from rest to gun hot with one mouse click is something id like to see. It adds a tacical reaction to returning fire.

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Greetings everyone,
let me say that i am also one of those finding the current "always up" weapon system annoying, so i will give a(nother) suggestion for a possible low-overhead implementation of a weapon raise/lower system in SQUAD. An auto-management is a no no for me: a weapon-world collision system as stated by Nightingale on page 12 of this topic might provide a logical basis for discarding this auto way.

 

Motivation:

SgtSalty on page 13 (above) gave very good motivating values for a system like this. I don't agree that a system like this would be of visual benefit only as stated by someones on this topic.

 

Regarding realism and clumsiness:

Looks like many people are really fighting against realism implementations on the sake for a simpler game play experience. Touching on the realism question on SQUAD, seems that KlasiK116 has a very valid stance on page 12. When talking about realism on video games, ARMA is indeed a kind of reference product on the scene. I consider ARMA clumsy by clumsy design implementation methods. Some people translate this clumsiness into realism which i don't agree. Human beings are really agile and dynamic in reality's realism. I think that realism aspects could be implemented in many games, SQUAD included, in graceful ways without making the game play tedious. This elegant design approach (SQUAD obviously inherits much care for detail as observed in PR) could help SQUAD delivering a further brutal experience in the good sense. It is already a very good experience. Already was when in purchased it for almost a year ago and so tried it for the first time. I think a lot of "realism things" didn't get implemented on PR by game engine limitations, not because they wanted an experience for those players with simpler needs. I don't think those were the ones that made PR grow. I am a little realism biased though.

 

Solution suggestion:
*Basis considerations: manual toggle, no dedicated key bind, low player input management overhead, character velocity constraints, character stamina constraints (possible merge with RushTheBus input on page 4).
*Default weapon mode (on spawning and on getting out of vehicles): weapon low.
*(Uncertain about these) Need weapon low for entering a vehicle, no weapon high/low toggle while on prone position.
*(Implementation Assumption) Suggested mechanism can be implemented on UE4.

 

Looking at the way SQUAD currently implements its player sprint system: when holding left shift while already holding the move forward key, some delay is generated for which after the character transitions to sprint state. This greatly emulates inertia/acceleration on velocity state transition. This delay represents a possible time window that could be exploited to listen for a right mouse button click, in order to generate an event for weapon raise/lower toggle.

There is no need to cancel the sprint state transition: if left shift keeps being pressed after this weapon toggle, SQUAD provides a smooth transition to "weapon toggled & running" state.

 

If weapon is low (constraints: Aim Down Sights always OFF; standing and crouching valid (possible "no meaning" while on prone position)):
|
|-> Character behavior: if standing still -> ...; if walking -> ...; if running -> current sprint way.
|-> Stamina consumption: if standing still -> no consumption; if walking -> no consumption; if running -> high consumption.

 

If weapon is high (constraints: Aim Down Sights ON or OFF; standing, crouching and prone position valid):
|
|-> Character behavior: if standing still -> something like current way; if walking -> tactical walk; if running -> tactical run.
|-> Stamina consumption: if standing still -> very low; if walking -> low; if running -> moderate consumption.

 

Solution Pros:
No waste of a dedicated input key bind.
"Mouse button holds" get saved for further event/triggering implementation necessities.
Fluid transition system with low player input management needs.
A clearer world view, specially while holding bigger weapons.
Addition of "good realism" and care.
Removal of annoyance.

 

Solution Cons:
Additional player input management needs.

I can't think of further cons as i am facing this system as a fundamental need.

 

Further and less related and personal questions:
A weapon-world collision system would be a magnificent achievement (Nightingale on page 12).
Mouse scroll for Back Up Iron Sights (while ADS is ON) might be another nimble low overhead implementation (as on PepperBelly's video on page 6).

What do you guys think of a prone tactical emergency move like on Metal Gear Solid 4, where character rolls belly up and aims back (assuming that character rotation while on prone will be more constrained)?

 

Cheers,
DC.

Edited by DC85

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+1 for weapon lowering

 

Double-tap left control to bring your weapon down to the low ready, or front slung, would be very nice and add a lot of realism

 

Anyone who would rather sacrifice that realism to save the extra second of time it takes to raise the weapon before shooting should go check out a game called "Call of Duty" and stop playing Squad

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