bumfluff

Please no raised weapon as default

413 posts in this topic

It's not rocket science to learn to double tap a key or hold a key for a modifier though. The amount of hate due to misunderstanding Arma gets on this forum is unreal.

 

Comparing Squad to Arma is pretty damn ridiculous anyway. Totally different style of games. If you're playing Arma like you're playing Squad then something is wrong.

 

Anyway, how are you finding the Steam controller? I need a new one as my old wired 360 pad has literally just given up the ghost and as it's Christmas I just might treat myself!

there is no misunderstanding when ti comes to Arma. The Devs simply put did not put much thought behind their controls. every action has its own buttons without thought to where it's placed. When your top fan on youtube that pretty much makes only arma vids complains about your UI, interface, and control system...you have a problem. its not about the gameplay style its about Arma controls are a Clutter and controls should not be a clutter of a mess to use. image if your car had a two wheels. one controls its left and another controls its right. ask yourself...why why not have one damn wheel to control both. simple example but pretty much can sum up arma.

 

i spend 4 hours setting up the controls to my liking that cover my gameplay. there are control setup for tank only, heli only, and soldier only. that is how much of a clutter it is that people rather just have profiles for each thing and switch them as they go for their steam controller. there is no need for that.

 

now off topic on the steam controller.

 

1. its not plug and play. if you on pc then you are pretty used to customizing controls to your liking and this is fucking customizable to all hell.

2. you will hate it for the first 4 - 5 hours of used but once you get used to the touch pad/gyro fucking golden. it has replace my X1 controller because its useless at this point. i can play Squad without the worry of my aim being F because im using a controller.

3. looks wierd but its feel good in your hands.

4. it uses battery but fuck load it last for 80 plus hours.

 

http://store.steampowered.com/controller/update/dec15

 

check out the link so you can get an idea how you can set it all up to your liking also check out youtuber name Woodsie. he shows you how to set up controls for each type of game. give you a small idea what the steam controller can do.  it can handle Arma, MMO, FPS, RTS, RPG, and anything else with ease.....just not sports game XD

 

if you want to know the aiming... well if a mouse is a 10 and a controller is a 5. the steam controller is a 8 or 9 rating. 

 

 

 

 

 

"The point of it for me is what it symbolizes. Having it up means you are ready. You can't be ready all the time. A bit more conscious effort to be ready for engagements. That <1/2 second extra to shoulder it will remove the twitchshooting occurrences. 

Makes ambushed on patrols more fun and rewarding etc. You caught them off guard! "

 

here the problem. the game already has animation lag...too much of it. it takes time to change weapons, it takes ages to get a pistol out, it takes time to do and that. adding more lag like a animation to bring up the weapon will effect the gameplay more. the weapon bring up and down should be fast and on point....if i can do that im pretty sure a train solder should out do me like nothing....unless im some god of the battlefield i don't know about,.

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The point of it for me is what it symbolizes. Having it up means you are ready. You can't be ready all the time. A bit more conscious effort to be ready for engagements. That <1/2 second extra to shoulder it will remove the twitchshooting occurrences.

Makes ambushed on patrols more fun and rewarding etc. You caught them off guard!

You won't keep it up all the time cause it will affect your sway is what I'm hoping.

 

To me this is milsim, I have a milsim game its called Arma 3, DCS etc, please do not clutter it up with stuff like this which detracts from the point of the game, this would ruin the game if you had to think of your hydration levels, shitting into cling film and whether the guy next to you is about to crack.

 

Lets keep it simple folks, too many useless features a good game does not make, while were at it if were adding in weapon lowering, can we also have tactical shitting? basically if your under fire you don't even pull your trousers down.

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Also, I would venture to argue, that for realism sake, in the video game setting, it is realistic to be at the ready or low ready when you enter a match. When you move into an area that you expect contact is imminent, you will raise your weapon. This is essentially what is occurring when you join a game, you are thrown DIRECTLY into a hostile environment with imminent contact right out the door. This isn't ARMA where you spend two hours briefing in a school circle and then go out into a village and role play with civilians. This is combat as soon as you enter the game.

 

I share this vision from Ross. Arma 3 map is like 10x bigger than squad's maps. So, it make sense to have resting position in A3, where you are actually really far from the enemy. But squad is alot smaller. The main base is already at risk of enemy fire, it makes sense to be ready all the time.

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To me this is milsim, I have a milsim game its called Arma 3, DCS etc, please do not clutter it up with stuff like this which detracts from the point of the game, this would ruin the game if you had to think of your hydration levels, shitting into cling film and whether the guy next to you is about to crack.

 

Lets keep it simple folks, too many useless features a good game does not make, while were at it if were adding in weapon lowering, can we also have tactical shitting? basically if your under fire you don't even pull your trousers down.

 that why i say American army proving grounds is a good example.

 

the gun is lower a littler bit. the moment you fire or aim the gun snips to it smoothly.

 

there. the gun is out of the way and yet does not removing anything from the gameplay

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"Why are we/other people comparing this game to Arma?"

 

Maybe it's because we have folks talk about low ready when it is unncessary for a tactical shooter. "It kills my immersion", go cry me a river; "it's not realistic to run at high ready all the time", neither is respawning and people having HP; "it's only at the press of a button", great, that's one saved!

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"Why are we/other people comparing this game to Arma?"

 

Maybe it's because we have folks talk about low ready when it is unncessary for a tactical shooter. "It kills my immersion", go cry me a river; "it's not realistic to run at high ready all the time", neither is respawning and people having HP; "it's only at the press of a button", great, that's one saved!

Nice that you won´t tolerate other opinions then yours and know whats necessary and what´s not...

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Is there a game that has a default weapon at ready when not ADS? ARMA seems like the obvious comparison with the toggle weapon lowered, but what are others? How do they take care of it? Is it faster than ARMA or slower? Would one of these ways make the game slower than ARMA just because of the toggleable weapon? What is the purpose for this function? Is it just to leave the screen clear? If so what if an enemy pops up will one of the ways make it less easy to shoot the person? 

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Is there a game that has a default weapon at ready when not ADS? ARMA seems like the obvious comparison with the toggle weapon lowered, but what are others? How do they take care of it? Is it faster than ARMA or slower? Would one of these ways make the game slower than ARMA just because of the toggleable weapon? What is the purpose for this function? Is it just to leave the screen clear? If so what if an enemy pops up will one of the ways make it less easy to shoot the person? 

I for one can sadly not think of one game, what PR/BF2 had was like this: your weapon is lowered in third person but not in first and raises up in third person if you aim down/fire it.

 

Because of the awesome system we have in Squad were everything you see in first they see in third person(I still think this is one of the best things ever and it already works so great) this would not be possible and for me it looks a bit silly that everyone always has their weapons up.

 

I can totally understand that a lot of folks don´t care about this.

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Nice that you won´t tolerate other opinions then yours and know whats necessary and what´s not...

 

I'll tolerate that these opinions exists and I know why they do, but still, don't expect me to agree with it. The game was advertised as a tactical shooter and the Devs have said time and time again that gameplay takes priority over realism if either a) a realistic implementation hurts the gameplay(which this admittedly doesn't) or b ) the implementation of a feature is of cosmetic nature or doesn't affect gameplay. Again, there are most definately bigger fishes to fry at the moment, so development time is also a factor. That's just me though.

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Just make it a toggle like Lean and ADS.  Then you can have it however you want it with no arguements about what is better.

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To me this is milsim, I have a milsim game its called Arma 3, DCS etc, please do not clutter it up with stuff like this which detracts from the point of the game, this would ruin the game if you had to think of your hydration levels, shitting into cling film and whether the guy next to you is about to crack.

Lets keep it simple folks, too many useless features a good game does not make, while were at it if were adding in weapon lowering, can we also have tactical shitting? basically if your under fire you don't even pull your trousers down.

I can do without shitting into cling film.

It's not even close to what I'm debating.

But yes, having features for taking a dump would be very MilSim :)

I could summarize your post in one sentence really. Since I have Arma3 I don't like it and it will ruin the game for me.

For me, any one feature here and there will not make me want to play SQUAD any less. It's the whole package and I'm not overly sensitive.

What I experience bad is that a good ambush can be defused by players (120 FPS twitchers) just swirling around and putting those HS, when they really should be dashing for cover. If players are good enough, this is what will happen. As soon as we know we can, we will. I don't want to kill you that easy;)

The delay from weapon down-up seems like a good way to deal with this, IMHO.

About extra buttons to push. None in my book. Tap RMB for weapon up/down. Hold RMB to aim. Hopefully we could set it any way we want in settings.

I'm a pragmatic person, not everything I say or suggest is for my own pleasure but that I see it working well for the overall gameplay/playerbase.

PS. I'm not MilSim cause I like one thing another don't. We lose much in our discussions when we constantly just throw stuff like this in. Keep it short and on point. Our opinions aren't facts, aka this will ruin the game (for me, not the game itself).

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guys, I did it... Arma 3 is on a steam controller...i have all the binds you use for a soldier would use. i have the gpu,map, compass, and all...

 

well i did it. GG Arma.

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Is there a game that has a default weapon at ready when not ADS? ARMA seems like the obvious comparison with the toggle weapon lowered, but what are others? How do they take care of it? Is it faster than ARMA or slower? Would one of these ways make the game slower than ARMA just because of the toggleable weapon? What is the purpose for this function? Is it just to leave the screen clear? If so what if an enemy pops up will one of the ways make it less easy to shoot the person?

Go back to page 8... or 11... or 12.

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Just make it a toggle like Lean and ADS.  Then you can have it however you want it with no arguements about what is better.

I'd only be ok with a toggle if you were not penalised for keeping it up all the time. Which actually isn't what these people want. They want accuracy penalties and lower stamina etc. It's the epitome of the vocal few trying to force terrible game mechanics on the masses because....errr...they don't actually have a reason. "It's like that in real life" means nothing in a video game, "does it contribute to fun?" is the only question that matters there.

 

But sure if they want to hide the gun away and keep spamming a button every few seconds I'm fine with that, as long as I don't have to and am not put at an arbitrary disadvantage because they want to play Arma without logging onto Arma.

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I cannot believe how long this thread has run  :huh:

15 pages FFS :wacko: over 9000 views

really some people got to little to worry about

 

(puts fingers in ears) 

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I'd only be ok with a toggle if you were not penalised for keeping it up all the time. Which actually isn't what these people want. They want accuracy penalties and lower stamina etc. It's the epitome of the vocal few trying to force terrible game mechanics on the masses because....errr...they don't actually have a reason. "It's like that in real life" means nothing in a video game, "does it contribute to fun?" is the only question that matters there.

But sure if they want to hide the gun away and keep spamming a button every few seconds I'm fine with that, as long as I don't have to and am not put at an arbitrary disadvantage because they want to play Arma without logging onto Arma.

My voice eg towards this; is all about gameplay. Have you read any of the two pages back?

Arma has nothing to do with my view on this. Tried the game, not my cup of tea.

Turning the tables, those of you who are against this are (not all ofc) also against

everything that doesn't make this just a better looking Insurgency or CS.

You want faster aim, faster reloads, less time switching to pistols etc. You are already against many of the features that are already in. Features I like btw.

Insurgency and CS is not my cup of tea either so you can better understand my reasoning.

Much talk about the masses to strengthen your voices.

You know what appeals to the masses most? COD and such. Watch the sales nrs.

It's not really an argument you can use here.

For me, weapon raised/lowered is a way to promote (what I view) as better tactics. It rewards ambushing and defense tactics and penalizes run and gun. Hopefully something we all want?

But from playing on servers I see that so many just run around not playing tactically. So ofc those masses want everything faster.

Tactics and teamwork over individual skills.

Players are hard-coded and and need to be conditioned to play a certain way.

This feature would condition them to play (what I view as) more tactically.

And again; turning the tables. Many get practically scolded for referencing PR.

But it's OK to reference Arma.

Of the two, which one do you think SQUAD will mimic most from?

You all have played Arma with raised/lowered, but none of us have played SQUAD with it. Keep that in mind.

It makes a world of difference.

Just screaming no to everything right off the bat never been the road toward progress, in any area.

This as well as many other features is not a make or brake it feature for me.

But it be interesting to try. It won't kill you, or the game, promise.

My last post on the subject unless a direct question is asked.

Merry X-mas fellas!

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I cannot believe how long this thread has run  :huh:

15 pages FFS :wacko: over 9000 views

really some people got to little to worry about

 

(puts fingers in ears) 

Not to much time, that´s called passion for a game :P

 

Can´t wait to play with you again some time mate!

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so after setting it up for my steam controller i was able to play happily without issue. after 5 hours straight with using the Weapon lower stance.....

 

well, i would rather have it be dynamic thing that has zero effects in gameplay. all that its ever used for is just so your weapon is off screen. if the devs do add this in...have it snap back into place the moment the player aims his gun. dont let it effects the gameplay because the gunplay for right now has a lot of "Lag" or PR Slowpoke Syndrome. why i have no idea..but there animation that needs to be speed up.

 

 

(please dont say animations promotes "Lones Wolf" dear god ask yourself why we still have lone wolfs...hint hint, animation is not the cause of it.)  

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so after setting it up for my steam controller i was able to play happily without issue. after 5 hours straight with using the Weapon lower stance.....

well, i would rather have it be dynamic thing that has zero effects in gameplay. all that its ever used for is just so your weapon is off screen. if the devs do add this in...have it snap back into place the moment the player aims his gun. dont let it effects the gameplay because the gunplay for right now has a lot of "Lag" or PR Slowpoke Syndrome. why i have no idea..but there animation that needs to be speed up.

(please dont say animations promotes "Lones Wolf" dear god ask yourself why we still have lone wolfs...hint hint, animation is not the cause of it.)

I completely agree. It should just be automatic, and if you aim/hipfire with your weapon lowered your weapon immediately raises. That how it was for the world models of troops in OR, and I think it would work just as well in Squad.

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I completely agree. It should just be automatic, and if you aim/hipfire with your weapon lowered your weapon immediately raises. That how it was for the world models of troops in OR, and I think it would work just as well in Squad.

I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but this idea was pretty well executed in Heroes and Generals. 

 

https://youtu.be/ThdB3awz7Ts?t=2m30s

 

As you can see not ADSing or firing for a few seconds has your gun go to a resting position, and it is raised very quickly when you need it. That game also had the 3rd person model match the 1st person one, and IMO it worked pretty decently.

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after playing arma for another 6 hours.... mirco managing my fucking stance, my gun stance, and the rest.....fuck no, leave that shit a auto.

 

Arma is the game for you if you want all of that shit..and the best part it affects gameplay so there that. Squad does not need nor should have it effect gameplay at all. Zero effects.

 

The best solution?

 

those who want tap tap revolution let them have a togger

 

those who want a game let it be auto but it should not have no draw back...just purely for looks and screen space.

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those who want a game let it be auto but it should not have no draw back...just purely for looks and screen space.

 

I know I will regret posting again in this 15-page thread of facebook-like posts, but... I'll try to say something here.

 

SQ is going to have a first person weapon collision system.

 

It is also a true first person game.

 

So if you are unable to lower your weapon in any way (whether it's automatic or manual), you will find it difficult to get through doorways, aim through windows, etc. So by definition, it is impossible for the lowering/raising animation to have no "effect" on the gameplay. No matter how the devs choose to implement it, it is going to have an effect on the gameplay--whether or not that is a good or bad thing is a separate discussion.

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I know I will regret posting again in this 15-page thread of facebook-like posts, but... I'll try to say something here.

 

SQ is going to have a first person weapon collision system.

 

It is also a true first person game.

 

So if you are unable to lower your weapon in any way (whether it's automatic or manual), you will find it difficult to get through doorways, aim through windows, etc. So by definition, it is impossible for the lowering/raising animation to have no "effect" on the gameplay. No matter how the devs choose to implement it, it is going to have an effect on the gameplay--whether or not that is a good or bad thing is a separate discussion.

 

we are talking about putting your weapon down...also wrong just because you have a animation that lowers weapon down when near walls does not mean you cant have no weapon collision. animation can just be that...it does not mean you need physical collision. So again, having it affect gameplay is a big no no. The game already have a shit tons of "Lag" animations, Slow animation, and all the PR things that are keeping 1. unresponsive 2. affecting gameplay in a negative way  and 3. for all the reason it is like this...people still dont understand that these things dont = less lones wolfs nor more teamplay. because slow does not mean Tactical play. 

 

Culleter does not mean Tactical team play

Cubberson movement does not mean Tactical play

unresponsive also doesn't mean Tactical play nor none of these push Tactical play at all.

 

...hell if it did we would be having the "Lones Wolfs"

 

rather have the gameplay be fun and smooth for those who do play the game for tactical rather than then have all these slow animations to keep them out...while they still in game anyways.

 

Arma 3...a damn mil sim has lone wolfs, Team killer, and non tactical player. a fucking mil sim, and arma is worst when it comes to controls...fuck that and just have nice Tight controls without micromanaging stances, weapon lowering/raising, taking 5 weeks to take out your pistol, 6 years to reload your gun (lets keep in mind that 1. these are soldier and 2 arma reloads their gun faster.. fiing arma)

 

all these little things people are asking dont add to the game but gets in the way of what we are truly looking for.. the experiencing of playing together,

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It’s been awhile now and still no update from the devs as to the status of this yet. I just read the whole thread and there are a lot of people just not understanding what is being suggested here. To many people making comments such as “we don’t need more key binds” or “this game is not arma” or “that is only aesthetics”. None of those responses show any understanding of what the affirmative side of this discussion is saying. So to answer what most people are saying, is the change requested an aesthetic change? Well yes it is on one level. Is the change requested only an aesthetic change? Answer, not at all.  PepperBelly linked a perfect video that demolishes all counter arguments put forward in this giant thread. Please anyone who thinks this is just an aesthetic or a change that is too complicated to implement please watch the video on page 8 at this link: http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/806-please-no-raised-weapon-as-default/?p=119795

 

I think this change needs to be implemented into this game among a lot more which I will not mention to keep this post on topic to make Squad the best realistic/tactical/Mil Sim game as described on the front page, notice all the qualifying words that are underlined in the description that was taken from the official webpage. These would all be descriptors of any realistic/tactical/Mil Sim shooter on the market.

ALONE ON THIS BATTLEFIELD, YOU WILL NOT SURVIVE.

Squad is an online, team-based military experience where high levels of teamwork and communication are crucial to success.

 

Built from the ground up in Unreal Engine 4, Squad pits teams of up to 50 people against each other in intense modern day combined-arms combat scenarios. In this realistic environment, the flow of the game is dictated by the players, with organic and emergent gameplay reigning supreme.

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