Jump to content
Spookyz

Jets in the future?

Recommended Posts

Im sure you guys have looked into random terrain generation for OOB area? some good lod and optimizing would do wonders i think :D

 

Tiled terrain was once brought up by the Devs so I'm sure they'll figure out something suitable gameplay and performance wise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's still on the steam page under "Early Acess" , says the full iteration of the game will feature jets and helicopters. If this is a lie people might consider it a bit misleading as it is a part of what people pledged for, so you might wanna remove it. And yes it does require for maps to be quite bigger for this to work, if they get enough money they could make bigger maps and increase player count to 120, having at least 2-4 maps that big should be enough, one in a desert , like Kashan, other in forests, like Fools Road, other two i dont know what they could be. Nothing worth doing is easy i think, so it being hard should be a challenge for you guys, of course, in case you do get funded enough to make it happen. Hopefully that wont be a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There needs to be some special "Vehicle Warfare Large Maps" made just for a larger scale of combat. Like 16km x 16km (but with low terrain detail, lower static mesh densities). Then the jets will make sense.

M1-A1_Abrams_1.jpg

76uniform.jpg

As far as jets are concerned I think there should definitely be some armour / air focused maps. A good theatre example for this would be the Iraq war, as much of the fighting was done in the middle of the relatively featureless desert, making creating these huge maps far easier as only a couple of airbases and maybe some small, concentrated pockets of urban areas would need to be created. This would also make a map of that size less taxing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A10 WHog.....goes slow and kills tanks! aleady discussed months ago...

 

A10C and SU25 for Russian forces. Both rather slow but serve their purpose of providing CAS very well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about a system like in Wargame Red Dragon.

-SL lases target and choses attack vector and ordnance.

-NPC jet enters the map from certain bearing. Aircraft is visible to all, flies at realistic speed.

- Players can shoot it down. NPC jet will have basic evasion/flares logic so its not always a guaranteed shootdown. It will also be random to a certain degree (NPC pilot abandons attack due to too many lock-ons or continues... simulating pilots personal judgement and bullishness). SLs can decrease chance of shootdown by choosing attack vector where there are no air defenses, maybe place a waypoint or two... or maybe thats commanders role?

- After attack run jet flies back to rearm and is available after some time.

That way we still get to enjoy the epic target lasing moments and the feeling when friendly jet whizzes past without the hassle of player controlled aircraft?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about a system like in Wargame Red Dragon.

-SL lases target and choses attack vector and ordnance.

-NPC jet enters the map from certain bearing. Aircraft is visible to all, flies at realistic speed.

- Players can shoot it down. NPC jet will have basic evasion/flares logic so its not always a guaranteed shootdown. It will also be random to a certain degree (NPC pilot abandons attack due to too many lock-ons or continues... simulating pilots personal judgement and bullishness). SLs can decrease chance of shootdown by choosing attack vector where there are no air defenses, maybe place a waypoint or two... or maybe thats commanders role?

- After attack run jet flies back to rearm and is available after some time.

That way we still get to enjoy the epic target lasing moments and the feeling when friendly jet whizzes past without the hassle of player controlled aircraft?

Works for me.

I'm bias though, never really flew jets myself in PR and kinda think they got wasted allot. Players joined server, flew, got shot down, left server. Waste of playerspace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BF3 has long view distance and jets. Yes i know bf3 was a cluster fuck, but if we compare bf3 largest maps with Squad's 4x4km map or larger, i dont see why jets would not work.

Jets should take off far from combat zones, not like in bf3, where the airstrip is very close to the first flags.

Imo jets and chopper speed relation worked fine in BF3 why should it not work ik Squad?

If view distance really should hinder the implentation of aircraft(i dont think it will), we could have them implented on maps that has the same view distance as lugar dawn etc.

If the speed of jets are the issue, how about some big propeller aircraft we could drop parratroopers from :P

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtuyUpR5y1xUOFT3prS9JjqLeg9JLenVLeDqPjmTU6IuAEXVoM9w

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about a system like in Wargame Red Dragon.

-SL lases target and choses attack vector and ordnance.

-NPC jet enters the map from certain bearing. Aircraft is visible to all, flies at realistic speed.

- Players can shoot it down. NPC jet will have basic evasion/flares logic so its not always a guaranteed shootdown. It will also be random to a certain degree (NPC pilot abandons attack due to too many lock-ons or continues... simulating pilots personal judgement and bullishness). SLs can decrease chance of shootdown by choosing attack vector where there are no air defenses, maybe place a waypoint or two... or maybe thats commanders role?

- After attack run jet flies back to rearm and is available after some time.

That way we still get to enjoy the epic target lasing moments and the feeling when friendly jet whizzes past without the hassle of player controlled aircraft?

love this idea, and i also agree with LugNut's post.

was talking to my buddies about jets the other night and if you juxtapose the future potential of squad fixed wing aircraft alongside how it is handled in PR, (in terms of player usage), with the kind of learning curve that I assume would be implemented and how valuable fixed wing assets are -- I think it begs to consider how much time and effort would be spent trying to fit them in when, in my opinion, it is likely that only a very small percentage of the user base will end up using them regularly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Id rather have no aircraft at all, than having some a.i aircraft swoop in and drop a pie on something a player put a laser on. Imo immersion would take a big hit with non player controlled aircraft.

Cmom, we got very large maps, the engine can handle it, it possible to implement player controlled aircraft. Im sure it would be awesome!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

love this idea, and i also agree with LugNut's post.

was talking to my buddies about jets the other night and if you juxtapose the future potential of squad fixed wing aircraft alongside how it is handled in PR, (in terms of player usage), with the kind of learning curve that I assume would be implemented and how valuable fixed wing assets are -- I think it begs to consider how much time and effort would be spent trying to fit them in when, in my opinion, it is likely that only a very small percentage of the user base will end up using them regularly.

 

I've got to agree. The people who love flying jets do exist, but to do jets properly in Squad they would have to be pretty complex, I don't mean DCS levels or anything but you need to be able to accurately do things like targeting and bombing but not have so much maneuverability to make them unrealistically agile which results in the ridiculousness of Battlefield. And if you do manage to create the jets in such a fashion to fit Squad I think it would cut down the amount of players who are willing to touch them.

 

Prolands' seems like it wouldn't be too difficult to implement from a code side, but I'm not a programmer and certainly not an AI logic programmer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got to agree. The people who love flying jets do exist, but to do jets properly in Squad they would have to be pretty complex, I don't mean DCS levels or anything but you need to be able to accurately do things like targeting and bombing but not have so much maneuverability to make them unrealistically agile which results in the ridiculousness of Battlefield. And if you do manage to create the jets in such a fashion to fit Squad I think it would cut down the amount of players who are willing to touch them.

Prolands' seems like it wouldn't be too difficult to implement from a code side, but I'm not a programmer and certainly not an AI logic programmer.

Yeah dont get me wrong, im here for the long haul and would love to see hopeful pilots get their airframes and the maps be managed in a way that allows them the realistic airspace to manuever and contribute to the team and have a fun go of it. Keep spreading the good Squad word!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imo jets and chopper speed relation worked fine in BF3 why should it not work ik Squad?

 

BF3 flyby

 

Real flyby

 

...

 

There are obviously going to have to be compromises, but having it go 1/10th the speed and be perfectly suited to precision strafes of individual ground-troops is just wrong. Not only is it unrealistic, but since you've reduced the fixed-wing speed so much, the helicopters must also be relatively handicapped. This makes them extremely vulnerable to groundfire and it kills a lot of natural balance that could be kept by just keeping a more reasonable estimation of their real roles and capabilities.

I'm a fan of lased targets with AI JDAMs, but if we are going to include even the slower CAS aircraft for flight modelling, I think the best approach to realism outside of ridiculously large maps and full-on chock and taxi flight sim, just let the commander cash in "4 minutes of CAS" where a certain player gets to take the seat of an inbound CAS plane, and run it out of ammo or fuel, which ever comes first. Then the plane returns to base to re-arm. If the CAS plane is lost, the team loses 50 tickets or something... Basically the plane appears in flight on the border of the map, and someone gets to fly it. The pilot would have to be pre-arranged prior to making the CAS call, and could be the commander, an XO or any other player. This allows smaller but almost entirely realistic map-sizes and doesnt force the helicopter game to get shat on, which will have a much more significant role in Squad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont see the problem with this speed, it could still be a bit faster.

Squad isnt trying to be a simulator. I dont think we will have technicals driving 160 km/h either, they will also get slowed down, and thats fine.

No matter what i hope the dev's will at least try out jets in the game and see how it will work out.

For me non player controlled aircraft and artillery is a total no go, better stick with player controlled mortars or what ever type of artillery they will implement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me non player controlled aircraft and artillery is a total no go, better stick with player controlled mortars or what ever type of artillery they will implement.

I think the key factor why people are wary of NPC artillery/airstrikes is that these are usually guaranteed kills and there is nothing you can do to stop them (e.g. when a bomb drops out of the skybox). I hate that too and believe players should be able to counter against such attacks.

 

The idea i presented (Wargame Red Dragon based) would afford ground forces the same odds as vs player controlled jets. It's all about implementing good logic, ability to shoot the f*cker down and a degree of randomness to it.

"just let the commander cash in "4 minutes of CAS" where a certain player gets to take the seat of an inbound CAS plane, and run it out of ammo or fuel, which ever comes first. Then the plane returns to base to re-arm. If the CAS plane is lost, the team loses 50 tickets or something... Basically the plane appears in flight on the border of the map, and someone gets to fly it."

Or this ^^.

 

However for both of these ideas map borders would have to be extended to allow for effective anti-aircraft warfare (you fire a stinger, it doesn't have time to catch up with jet, jet disappears on map edge).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Instead of fly a jet in limited maps ( remember that even ArmA islands are "limited" for aerial combat ) it could be intresting having an UAV with limited Hellfires ( 4? 8? ) for CAS.

No one has to "drive" it , it requires only someone to laser the target. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Instead of fly a jet in limited maps ( remember that even ArmA islands are "limited" for aerial combat ) it could be intresting having an UAV with limited Hellfires ( 4? 8? ) for CAS.

No one has to "drive" it , it requires only someone to laser the target.

CO could plan the flightpath :)

2 missiles won't make it OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's try to keep it on topic, I wouldn't worry about artillery/mortars right now. At the very least, mortars will be player controlled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No need for playable airplanes

what?

 

ok I found this out https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/offworldindustries/squad/posts/1272444, so yes there will be aircraft in the future but how will the devs implement this? will the terrorist side get them as well? I mean that wouldn't really make sense since the game is suppose to be real as possible. i'm really curious too see how this feature will be and hope it won't be unrealistic.

your concept of realism scares me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me to enjoy Squad, Jets should either be done right or not at all.

So it doesn't mean DCS realism, however the authenticy (?) should  be equal to the realims on ground combat, cause it would be  a shame if the immersion that we already have through fairly realistic guns/sounds/whatever would be destroyed by a 10Km/h flying jet, just because we desperately needed jets to work on 4x4map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me to enjoy Squad, Jets should either be done right or not at all.

So it doesn't mean DCS realism, however the authenticy (?) should  be equal to the realims on ground combat, cause it would be  a shame if the immersion that we already have through fairly realistic guns/sounds/whatever would be destroyed by a 10Km/h flying jet, just because we desperately needed jets to work on 4x4map.

 

We don't need realism in Squad, not at all. We need authenticity, like you said! This game should not be any kind of simulation, like Arma tries to. Not even Arma simulates anything afaik. It's also supposed to be a large-scale tactical military shooter game that uses authentic content and mechanics to serve that purpose. DCS is where it gets very realistic I guess, so authentic flying is where it should head to. 

Had to rant about this confusion of realism in games, ty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about a system like in Wargame Red Dragon.

-SL lases target and choses attack vector and ordnance.

-NPC jet enters the map from certain bearing. Aircraft is visible to all, flies at realistic speed.

- Players can shoot it down. NPC jet will have basic evasion/flares logic so its not always a guaranteed shootdown. It will also be random to a certain degree (NPC pilot abandons attack due to too many lock-ons or continues... simulating pilots personal judgement and bullishness). SLs can decrease chance of shootdown by choosing attack vector where there are no air defenses, maybe place a waypoint or two... or maybe thats commanders role?

- After attack run jet flies back to rearm and is available after some time.

That way we still get to enjoy the epic target lasing moments and the feeling when friendly jet whizzes past without the hassle of player controlled aircraft?

 

Yep, this would be a good way to handle it. I agree with the do it right, or mainly so it feels right and if it doesn't fit within the environment, don't do it at all.

 

I really don't want to have jets like this:

 

 

To me, it's just like BF2, you feel like you're flying a camera at low speeds without any momentum. No jet can flip 180's and yoyo up and down in this small of a space. 

 

Even in ARMA, with much bigger maps, I feel like they had to make some concessions to get fixed wing planes to fit. I can't even fly the faster jets, by the time I can see what I'm aiming at, it's disappearing underneath me.

 

It's better though.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aircrafts will destroy inf gameplay

I hate it in arma so much...you had some good inf fights and than an attack chopper level the whole area

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aircrafts will destroy inf gameplay

I hate it in arma so much...you had some good inf fights and than an attack chopper level the whole area

Aircraft done right would be an awesome thing to have i squad.

There is no reason to belive it will be as arcade as BF, and no reason to believe it will be as simulator as arma. The game is not trying to be like any of them, its somewhere in between!

There is plenty of room here to adjust aircraft so they will fit into the game. Im sure a perfect middleground can be achieved here.

They worked in PR. And the reason for them not to work in squad is the better view distance ?? Im not buying that, the increased view diatance is not a problem in this matter, its a bonus. Having jets fly a bit faster and higher than what we see in BF3 etc, having good AA, long spawn times for aircraft, having them take off far from combat zones...there is almost unlimited ways to balance them so they dont dominate/ break the infantry aspect...done right it will be a win for all aspect of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×