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Vehicle, controlling speed

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A quick suggestion on controlling vehicle speed, that i have not found a topic about in the forums.

i think that a way to control your vehicles speed would be a nice addition to the controls in Squad. If we look at PR, you either don't move, go full speed or tap your keys to drive at the speed you wish. it makes aiming vehicle-mounted weapons harder, damage from terrain more frequent and controlling the area you drive through harder.

 

My suggestion is that "gears" are added to the vehicles to control their speed. Having any number of them to get a more accurate control, though i imagine three or four are enough.

 

With this we could gain more accurate fire on the move, better view of the surroundings, accurate steering, give a choice to go slower offroad and get a more reasonable speed moving through built up areas.

 

You don't have to call it gears either, it would be like a throttle control of sorts. What do you think, or do you love driving dirtbikes and technicals that fly 30 feet after hitting a bump in PR? :)

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I've also always disliked what you've mentioned above, the whole "go full speed or tap your keys to drive at the speed you wish" thing that plagues PC gaming.

Arma had a system involving the usual WASD but where you could bind a "Fast forward" key (Q), a "Forward" key (W), and a "Slow forward" (E) key which gives you some flexibility in the speed your vehicle is traveling, though the slow speed was (In a HMMVEE) 40 km/h, forward was 60 km/h, and fast was 80 km/h. I'm under the impression that the Dev team is, in general, looking for systems that use the least amount of keys to accomplish things which is what makes your gears system interesting to me. Your idea of gears, likely involving the typical WASD plus a shift gear up key, and a shift gear down key, is better than that. You can have, for example, 6 gears with maximums of different speeds with only 2 keys that don't necessarily need to be very near to the WASD, getting much more "bang for your buck" than Arma's system. The speed control would be especially useful in APCs, Tanks, and other vehicles with mounted guns when they're in combat and would like to maintain control of their vehicle while still advancing, however slowly. Having gunned in PR a fair bit, I can think of more than a few drivers that would've liked this system or generally would've benefited from it. 

Of course, I'm not suggesting that a whole manual gear system akin to racing games use for manual cars is implemented (an interesting concept but not one I think too many people would go for), but perhaps something called a "throttle control" like the OP would work best where these "gears" or levels or whatever would just work such that you get into a vehicle that starts at ignition off (and I hope that there's an ignition on/off key because driver's shouldn't have to get out of their vehicle or switch to a passenger seat to do an audio check like in PR), you turn the vehicle on and just use the shift up key to set the maximum speed you'd like to travel at based on those levels, 6 being the max speed possible of the vehicle and 1 being a very slow forward speed. I'd like to stress that my addition to the OP suggestion would be that these "gears" or levels would only be setting a maximum speed, so if you're at speed 6 you can still coast to a stop or use the tapping method to drive at a slower speed for a couple seconds, etc. That is just to offer the greatest amount of flexibility within the system. As far as reversing goes, there's A: The throttle maximum should not apply to reversing (as typically you're reversing in a hurry as a result of something unexpected or dangerous occurring), B: It should apply with the same maximum speed that going forward goes, despite the fact that you'd be of course going much slower anyways because you're, you know, reversing or C. It should apply but the speed maximum speeds for the "gears" should simply be proportionally adjusted for the reduced speeds of reversing.

Two examples:

A squad spawns at main at the beginning of the round. All 5 of them jump into a HMMVE. The driver turns it on, shifts up to 6 and the squad deploys at full speed to their destination.

An APC is sitting behind a piece of terrain, ATGM loaded, with the knowledge that there is an enemy tank somewhere to their NW, the direction they're currently in cover from. The APC driver sets the max speed to one and holds W to go forward. The APC goes very slowly forward until the gunner spots the tank and is able to fire immediately, a second before the tank gunner can swing his cannon to shoot. (That would be in contrast to the potential error cause by an APC accidentally driving forward too quickly and without full control, giving the tank gunner the extra second to make the shot.)

Issues:
What happens when you shift down to a maximum speed below what you're currently traveling at? (I.E. 40 km/h while you're at 80.) Does your vehicle abruptly slow to that speed or coast down to that speed with "throttle" at 0% but no brakes are applied until the maximum speed is reached whereby the throttle control then relinquishes back to your control of however fast you want to be going equal to or less than that maximum speed?

What happens if you plan on going very slowly but then circumstances suddenly change (I.E. You were engaging infantry but then an APC shows up and you need to speed the hell out of there) and you need to leave the area rapidly? If your max speed is set to a low speed and your shift gear button isn't near your WASD or maybe you accidentally miss the key etc. you're sitting there trying to escape at 10 km/h as a result, losing crucial seconds.  

Of course, this probably wouldn't apply to helicopters or planes, though being able to set the throttle of your helicopter to the % that would achieve a stable hover would be very useful.

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Oh, JO have similar system like ArmA WASD and three speed/gears for vehicles, slow, med, high. These were controlled by same keys as prone, crouch and stand. Option that really made difference were that you had option to turn mouse driving on for settings, then you could steer your vehicle with mouse (aka. analog no tapping to turn).

 

My suggestion this problem that I even didn't realise is "still" there is that:

 

1) Basic WASD contol maybe as one option for reason or another.

2) Mouse control for direction (steering wheel)

3) Scroll wheel for setting speed 0..100% ( Note: SET )

4) Rest of the control old fashion WASD key bindings

 

Option to use joystic some sort if you wish.

 

From later post small clarification just in case:

 

Scrollwheel speed setting I meant 3 gears type of system (with just lots more "gears") where you still use your WASD binding for actually move forward/backward. Scrollwheel only sets the max speed that the vehicle goes when you press the forward/backward keys. Also it would be used "on fly" to adjust the speed kind of like throttle pedal.

Edited by WARti0k0ne -BG-

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My only problem with Mouse control for steering is that it would then disable the free-look you have in vehicles, something that is especially important in APCs and tanks.

Though I agree, having the option to choose your system of driving may be useful, so those who want to use the gear system or the scroll wheel for 0 - 100%, etc. or use the old fashioned WASD with full go or no go or tap as they please. Wouldn't make it unfair for any party and allows the player to be even more flexible in their control style which isn't a bad thing in my books.

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I wouldn't mind but its not necessary, if you have a joystick you can already, in BF2:PR, set a custom speed and without it, you can tap the key and keep the momentum, even at low speeds.

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My only problem with Mouse control for steering is that it would then disable the free-look you have in vehicles, something that is especially important in APCs and tanks.

Though I agree, having the option to choose your system of driving may be useful, so those who want to use the gear system or the scroll wheel for 0 - 100%, etc. or use the old fashioned WASD with full go or no go or tap as they please. Wouldn't make it unfair for any party and allows the player to be even more flexible in their control style which isn't a bad thing in my books.

Yep. Freelook could also be key enabled, it would  be on the glunky side tho I assume. Need for free look enables the need of the tank / apc commander sticking out of the hatchet..

 

I can assure the ones that want wasd tapping style of control that once you have really played something like squad with mouse controlled steering and gears you just don't even to consider the wasd no more.

 

If you have good analog joystic then you just don't need to think these kind of problems.

 

I think the need to use keyboard only for driving arises from the games like BF&CoD (latter I haven't played ever) where control both the maingun and actual vehicle.

 

Scrollwheel speed setting I meant 3 gears type of system where you still use your WASD binding for actually move forward/backward. Scrollwheel only sets the max speed that the vehicle goes when you press the forward/backward keys. Also it would be used "on fly" to adjust the speed kind of like throttle pedal.

Edited by WARti0k0ne -BG-

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Apc driving is my forte in pr, the system in pr is pretty simple and straightforward.

I'm not sure about how I feel on gear settings, however vehicles do need two key things in squad.

1. Effective brakes- sliding is a drivers bane in pr, being able to stop all movement of the apc on an incline is badly needed. Different engine different terrain interaction. Perhaps a space bar e brake.

2. Crew marking - effective driving is only one piece of the puzzle when operating an apc. Spotting is the key to success, any guy who has gunned for me knows I'm always scanning and calling out targets. However nothing is more frustrating than spotting a rpg at 320 degrees and the gunner is disoriented and 90 degrees off. What I suggest would be a generalized marker. Similar to the chevron that shows up for an attack marker, the driver could place a marker that would only show up on the compass as the direction the gunner should look. Would have saved my life so many times with European gunners :)

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Why not just a simple incremental throttle system, like RO1? Hold W, increase throttle, hold S, decrease throttle.

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Might be a good option also, but slow if you want to go from one end to another or if it is fast it's hard to smoothly control. Double tapping is also one possible solution to that "problem". Mouse wheel have somewhat more control and is faster especially if it programmed to respond also the level of acceleration.

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definitely vehicles need different speeds, but i would not do gears. i think controlling vehicle speed should be just like control an infantryman's speed which results in 4 speeds: there is sprint, normal walk, crouch walk, and prone crawl. i think vehicles should have the same idea with the same buttons more or less. a vehicle can "sprint" (but doesnt run out of stamina) or fast speed drive, a normal speed, and "crouch button" speed, and a prone button speed. it would function like gears but u would not have to go from 1st to 2nd to 3rd gear and so on. it would be more like an automatic transmission and u control how hard the player pushes the gas pedal. i think that would be simplest but still realistic.

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Might be a good option also, but slow if you want to go from one end to another or if it is fast it's hard to smoothly control. Double tapping is also one possible solution to that "problem". Mouse wheel have somewhat more control and is faster especially if it programmed to respond also the level of acceleration.

Or just being able to bind 0, 25, 50, 75 and 100% throttle like in nearly every game that does it, with the W/S being used to make adjustments.

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I'd suggest that when you hold down W, you can increase/decrease speed by scrolling with the middle mouse button. Whenever you stop scrolling the speed is set at the last scroll setting. Quite comfortable imho.

 

And if someone wants to have it like in PR again, he can just set the speed to max, leave it like that and never touch the middlemouse again.

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Interesting topic and some good points have been already brought up here. 

I'm not sure what people around here thinks about console related stuff, but personally, i would love to have an option to use PS / Xbox -type of gamepad to control some vehicles. (maybe even choppers or jets?)
Using a gamepad or other analogue controllers would just solve so many problems with these WASD -systems and many of the issues and compromises that always are related to them. 

Steering a vehicle and controlling its speed is way more easier and simpler with pad. Player is also able to choose a button for each action of the vehicle. Think about things like a gear shifting, gun turret controlling, park brake etc. etc. With already having to remember those basic controlling mechanisms with WASD -system, these kind of actions would be just pain in the ass. Trying to find the right buttons from your keyboard in heated situation. But with a gamepad, because of varying shapes, colors and placing of the buttons, it is a lot easier to find the right buttons that are designated for each function. Even in that heated situation. 


You can probably see where i'm going at...  :P  Yeah, i would also like to have these kind of different actions and features for vehicles. Engine start up, gear shifting, handbrake, maybe even ability to adjust the headlamps, or use the windscreen wipers. 
I know that this stuff needs a lot of work if implemented in the game, and may not all be so grucial or necessary. But i also think, that these kind of small features would make vehicle tasks more deep and give a player something more to learn. Instead of just pressing down a gas pedal and lifting it up when you're in your destination, you would have a way more stuff to consider and reckon with while driving your trans or supply ride. It would make the transport and supply -tasks much more interesting and attractive for players.

But that's just about that, even if those features will not be added in the Squad, i would still love the option of using a different controllers with vehicles. It would be so much better than using a keyboard.

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Interesting topic and some good points have been already brought up here. 

I'm not sure what people around here thinks about console related stuff, but personally, i would love to have an option to use PS / Xbox -type of gamepad to control some vehicles. (maybe even choppers or jets?)

Using a gamepad would just solve so many problems with these WASD -systems and many of the issues and compromises that always are related to them. 

 

Or just the ability to use analogue controllers in general, ie joysticks, gamepads, pedals, wheels (?) etc.

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Or just the ability to use analogue controllers in general, ie joysticks, gamepads, pedals, wheels (?) etc.

Yes, i mentioned only a gamepad but generally i was talking about all of the analogue controllers. Gotta edit that text a bit...

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Human interface device. HID . ue4 has it in engine, at least for existing products on the market. The new VR and motion controllers not so much yet.

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Great post! Was just think of posting about the topic.

 

I think gears would be the way, no extra gamepad/joysticks, just switch between gears on the keyboard(The driver dousn't need to use the numbers on the keyboard for anything so why not just use them like:

1(low gear, for climbing hills and stuff)

2(infantary walk speed)

3(infantary sprint speed)

4(full vehicle speed)

5(switch between automatic and   

    manual transmission maybe?)

 

Having different speeds reflected towards the infantary walk and sprint speed will help and make for more fluent and better gameplay for everyone ...And I just hate hearing the engine cut off and rev up as it is now when we have to tapp W 

 

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Why can't we just hold shift like in Battlefield 3 to go faster in a vehicle? It'll be like holding shift as a person to sprint except for vehicles.

Edited by WarEagle751

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why are you guys that complicated with you're thousands of keys for gears...

I understand OP's Suggestion that you can just hold any speed. i would like this to, but more simple like a cruise control

1) hold W/S acclerate/Brake to a speed you want to travel with

2) tap a key to hold speed(engage cruise control)

3) tap or hold W/S to brake/aclerate again(disable the cruise control)

 

this is the way i would implement a cruise control.

28 minutes ago, WarEagle751 said:

Why can't we just hold shift like in Battlefield 3 to go faster in a vehicle? It'll be like holding shift as a person to sprint except for vehicles.

too much arcade-ish

On 6.3.2015 at 7:22 PM, Morbo513 said:

Why not just a simple incremental throttle system, like RO1? Hold W, increase throttle, hold S, decrease throttle.

this is fine to.

 

 

PS. In PR I used the pedals of my racing wheel to control the speed and it works pretty well :-*

Edited by Jaghammer
PS

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+1 for Gears and Mouse wheel for % of throttle

 

Like Dayz with the Gears, was great for me.

 

Makes a driver a driver, more dynamic of an experience, more depth. :D

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On 3/6/2015 at 10:31 PM, WARti0k0ne -BG- said:

Oh, JO have similar system like ArmA WASD and three speed/gears for vehicles, slow, med, high. These were controlled by same keys as prone, crouch and stand. Option that really made difference were that you had option to turn mouse driving on for settings, then you could steer your vehicle with mouse (aka. analog no tapping to turn).

 

My suggestion this problem that I even didn't realise is "still" there is that:

 

1) Basic WASD contol maybe as one option for reason or another.

2) Mouse control for direction (steering wheel)

3) Scroll wheel for setting speed 0..100% ( Note: SET )

4) Rest of the control old fashion WASD key bindings

wow back in 2015, now 2018 and mouse steering is still not in?!

 

On 3/6/2015 at 10:40 PM, Yrkidding said:

My only problem with Mouse control for steering is that it would then disable the free-look you have in vehicles

it was never a real issue in JO - you got used to driving with both keys and mouse at the same time, naturally shifting between each, depending on the moment. same control system for all vehicles - very intuitive ;)

 

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I have to agree on the mouse steering, currently its kind of knife and fork steering. Cornering is always adjust , adjust , adjust, just look at your hands when you steer and you will see what I mean. it hard to have a constant smooth turn.

 

I would love the ability to have gears. So i can move the vehicle forward at a certain speed. rather than.

 

0 > full almost instantly, or having to keep tapping W key.

Edited by ParaPlays

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7 hours ago, LaughingJack said:

wow back in 2015, now 2018 and mouse steering is still not in?!

Yep. There were a few many good topics (by many) back then considering these sort of things. 

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