VikingPingvin

Flight model.

35 posts in this topic

Greetings.

I am sorry if this was discucced already, what i found regarding this question was a year old topic.

 

So my question is:

How will the flight model will be for Squad?

 

I am mainly interested in helicopter mechanics. Will it be like the pr/bf? Or will it be like arma 3's advanced flight model?

 

I really hope it will be closer to the latter, as i am a long time simulation enthusiast, played arma and DCS a lot. It is impossible for me to pick up helicopter in PR because of how bad and arcadey they feel.

It would be good to maybe have two control shemes like arma does, one for arcadey and one for more serious simulation. I am sure there are guys here who have HOTAS and would like to utilize it with a realistic flight behavior.

 

Cheers!

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I actually rather it'll be as smooth and "arcadey" like bf4 ;o

but that's just my taste.. enjoyed the bf4 flight model much more than the arma 3 one

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I prefer'd PR's system, it was easy to learn but difficult to master.
A good pilot was heavily respected in that game.

I've never tried Armas system but if it was so perfect I would recommend you keep playing arma to get your pilot fix lol

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Thoroughly enjoy almost all flight models in games.  I did not enjoy Arma 3's.  To me it felt even more "arcadey".  I would like to see something closer to BF2 even BF4 but with a more solid feeling.  These a powerful machines, they should feel their correct heft and displacement.  Depending on the types of aircraft, I'm sure there's meaningful ways to get a feedback from actual pilots.  Military appreciation Squad event!  come test the flight model. 

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This is an interesting topic. According to other sources the helicopters are already pretty much fully implemented in their basic form- but SQUAD has a lot more mechanics to lay down and ground units before they get added. There's some videos from a community member who had already created a fully functional AH-1Z viper with thermals, lock ons, all that. I believe the Squad devs got in contact with him too.

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This is an interesting topic. According to other sources the helicopters are already pretty much fully implemented in their basic form- but SQUAD has a lot more mechanics to lay down and ground units before they get added. There's some videos from a community member who had already created a fully functional AH-1Z viper with thermals, lock ons, all that. I believe the Squad devs got in contact with him too.

That was tooner wasn't it? He atleast made a working APC aswell as a chopper as far as I remember, before they hired him :P

Edit: found the topics

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/863-lav25-vehicle-concept/#entry16582

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/1126-ah-1z-viper-helicopter-flight-model/#entry22176

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Thoroughly enjoy almost all flight models in games.  I did not enjoy Arma 3's.  To me it felt even more "arcadey".  I would like to see something closer to BF2 even BF4 but with a more solid feeling.  These a powerful machines, they should feel their correct heft and displacement.  Depending on the types of aircraft, I'm sure there's meaningful ways to get a feedback from actual pilots.  Military appreciation Squad event!  come test the flight model. 

 

You found ArmA's implementation "arcadey", yet find Battlefield's implementation realistic and / or authentic? 

 

I need to go lie down.

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That was tooner wasn't it? He atleast made a working APC aswell as a chopper as far as I remember, before they hired him :P

Edit: found the topics

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/863-lav25-vehicle-concept/#entry16582

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/1126-ah-1z-viper-helicopter-flight-model/#entry22176

 

You beat me to it. Yeah, he has some videos on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnwz8mgGTupDx_ojVeuXYNQ

 

Edit: When did he become a Squad developer?

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Tooner did a POC. Vehicles were completely rewritten from the ground up so right now helicopters do not exist.

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I've only played BF2 through BF4. I do like their flight models to a certain degree, but I feel that they make controlling your chopper too easy. I've no experience in real choppers, but I've always imagined the choppers in real life are less responsive and harder to straighten when wrongly steered. Less forgiving in general.

 

Would love to hear some of the developers' plans.

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The main problem i have with the pr/bf flight system is that when you lower collective the aircraft stalls, without any means to interact with it unless you raise the collective back up. ( I was not a skilled PR pilot also! )

That is not how physic works.

Even while descending you should be able to roll and pitch the helicopter, the lift and differential forces created by cyclic actuators and the pitch of the rotors still create a VERY significant force.

 

Also i understand this is a hard topic, there are players who prefer arcade, and players who prefer close to simulation models. I hope the devs can figure out a common ground that works for the majority of the playerbase.

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We don't have a flight model yet.  It'll be worked on after Early Access some time later in the dev cycle.  

 

I'm curious to know your guy's opinions though.  

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We don't have a flight model yet.  It'll be worked on after Early Access some time later in the dev cycle.  

 

I'm curious to know your guy's opinions though.

As much realistic as possible, until it fits gameplay, not players laziness.

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Arma 3 does helicopters really well . The base flight model has a little bit more of a learning curve then Battlefield 4's flight model yet still is fairly easy to learn. I do feel something like the advanced flight model of Arma 3 would be a little too much for Squad as you really need a joystick and throttle to use it correctly.

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BF2 model would be NICE :D , seems easy but it s hard to master. BF4 flight model is total crap .

 

realistic would be  something like : STAY 3 miles away from the battlefield and use long range weapons

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I would like it a bit more realistic than Arma's flight model, but so that you would still be able to fly with a mouse and keyboard. I think it should be challenging.

 

The risk though is that there would be too few pilots who really fly well enough to always have some in each game.

 

But I would love to see very realistic damage models/mechanics more than realistic handling.

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I liked PR flight model. The only problem with it is that it lacked momentum physics - meaning your chopper would not retain its energy when pitching up. I think the way Tooner did it was brilliant.

 

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PR's flightmodel isnt perfect, but its in the right direction IMO. Its not easy to master but you can do alot with a chopper if you do master it, more than in vanilla BF's.

An important thing would be to make sure it works well for people without Joysticks.

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I like ARMA's flight model, it's fairly easy to fly, but it requires time and practice to master. It's not easy in ARMA to simply hover for example, or learn to bleed speed without flaring. Some people fly there with keyboard and mouse, but most with at least a joystick. I use a HOTAS and pedals which make it easier and far more nuanced in control. 

 

I haven't flown in PR, so except from watching vids, I have no experience. ARMA's helos seem to have much more weight and momentum than it appears the PR birds do. They seem like they are on rails, like they were in BF2. No doubt this is helpful on the smaller small maps.

 

This sort of flying in the first couple of minutes would be nearly impossible in ARMA at that speed.

 

 

Also, ARMA's helos have full collisions and break easily.

 

This is typical flying in a Little Bird if you're are fairly accomplished, it's the most nimble.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOncgPsPEtg

 

There's a lot to learn in ARMA if you want to master it. I like that it's hard and to be a good pilot, you have to actively work at it. Dyslexi is as good as it gets.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AG3ba7LkYo

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Correct me if I'm wrong but ARMA's "ability" to fly and the flying mechanics are very different things.  ARMA's ability to fly is extremely hard compared to BF3/BF4.  But once you have learned the overly complicated controls they fly relatively well(mechanics).  I think people are confusing the two terms.  

 

*Note:  Also correct me if I'm wrong(I'm not) but hovering a helo in ARMA is as easy as clicking the icon.   <_<

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