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Will we be able to drop/pick up kits?

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I do it a lot in PR, so I was wondering if that will be in the game. For example, when the medics in your squad are down so you pick up their kit to revive your squadmates.

Or will a different system be implemented?

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According to previous dev posts, you will not be able to pick up any kits, friendly or enemy. Nothing is set in stone though.

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I think you should be able to pick up the main weapon from a dead player, but you shouldn't be able to drop any weapons.
If you are running out of mags you could easily pick up a weapon from a friendly or a foe and continue the fight.
 

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it could change but their logic was if a medic gets shot in real life, a private doesn't pick up his gear and start saving his life, he would not really have any idea how to do that
but if you were able to pick up their primary weapon (just the rifle) then that wouldnt seem to far fetched to me, but no medic kits or rocket launchers as they require special training.

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it could change but their logic was if a medic gets shot in real life, a private doesn't pick up his gear and start saving his life, he would not really have any idea how to do that

but if you were able to pick up their primary weapon (just the rifle) then that wouldnt seem to far fetched to me, but no medic kits or rocket launchers as they require special training.

 

Uh so tell me what do privates know?

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One thing i would like to see is just picking up his weapon, because i have had sometimes my team got stuck in a compound defending that point and i ran out of ammo, sure it happens in real life, but in real life you got hand to hand combat as a last resort, in Squad at the moment you got nothing to defend yourself when you are completely out of ammo. So just picking up a enemy's fallen weapon would be great.

 

Or maybe share some ammo with your squad mates, i think that would be great, just like how it is in Red Orchestra for the machinegun and semi-automatic rifles like the BAR. But for Squad maybne than we can like transfer over one magazine if you press like G when you are aiming at a squad mate when close. It would also increase better teamplay and a squad culture.

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it could change but their logic was if a medic gets shot in real life, a private doesn't pick up his gear and start saving his life, he would not really have any idea how to do that

but if you were able to pick up their primary weapon (just the rifle) then that wouldnt seem to far fetched to me, but no medic kits or rocket launchers as they require special training.

 

 

In a Corpsman/Sani kit you have at least 50% of the tools you can operate even you were blind. Morphine shots, Twinjects, Salts, Desinf, Bandages, Tourniquets etc, you should know HOW to use. Well that's all you do in Squad. Bandage and give a shot.

 

Picking up the rifle and ammo is standard, hell its safety reg, removing firearm from an insurgent, enemy soldier. Looting bodies is also normal for Insurgencies. I don't know why it changed in PR. Hell even in AA:O you could do it.

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Design wise the reason you cannot pick up kits is to give them value, you've got to defend your medics because if they die they're gone. Also if you could pick up kits you'd run into the PR problem of a single random dude reviving his entire squad even though both medics went down, which is annoying.

 

As for picking up weapons or ammo I don't remember the devs being revealing about their plans for it.

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From time to time I get teamkilled in PR by griefers and trolls, because they want to take away my marksman or sniper kit. This wouldn't have happened if they couldn't pick up kits. 

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Design wise the reason you cannot pick up kits is to give them value, you've got to defend your medics because if they die they're gone. Also if you could pick up kits you'd run into the PR problem of a single random dude reviving his entire squad even though both medics went down, which is annoying.

 

As for picking up weapons or ammo I don't remember the devs being revealing about their plans for it.

 

 

Well you have a REALITY issue then. It was already a problem in PR (you get killed by infidel poisoned DiemacoC8 wat?) and the PR problem wasn't one, it insured a long gaming sessions, I mean I've seen maps end in 12 minutes because ticks were bled out on one side and usually the side which shouldn't IRL. Sumari maps I've played, the US gets its butt handed over. Like 90% of the time. A dev here said that unlike PR the game's mechanics are basically skill related. Just thing about it... Short range firefights with slight to no advantage on both sides will simply become meat grinders, what was the big PRO in PR was that issue with the Lone Survivor Zombying his team up from Hell. Hell it made killing a completely different ballgame, than most other shooters. Unless you saw the kill count go +1 you weren't sure the enemy had lost a ticket.

 

Right  now it's too straightforward, and that doesn't exactly reward objective playing. You can see teams hold 5 flags out of 6 but lose on tick counts. That's unnacceptable. Yeah Pyrrhic victories, should be victories in AAS not utter disasters. Then why have Russia ingame FFS? :rolleyes:

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I like that they currently don't want you to be able to pick up kits from fallen people. Like other people have said, you are teamkilled for the kit (let's face it, every squad jumps on the marksman kit even if you have no support kits) and the first thing insurgents did in PR was go look for an ACOG. I know they want to have symmetrical as well as symmetrical warfare, what your weapon is and what it is supposed to do is different across most factions, meaning you have to adapt to the playstyle of the weapons to the faction. It defeats the point of that if you can pick up any gun you want. It's one of those gameplay>realism things. 

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I like that they currently don't want you to be able to pick up kits from fallen people. Like other people have said, you are teamkilled for the kit (let's face it, every squad jumps on the marksman kit even if you have no support kits) and the first thing insurgents did in PR was go look for an ACOG. I know they want to have symmetrical as well as symmetrical warfare, what your weapon is and what it is supposed to do is different across most factions, meaning you have to adapt to the playstyle of the weapons to the faction. It defeats the point of that if you can pick up any gun you want. It's one of those gameplay>realism things. 

 

 

 

 

War is dynamic, and for each action you have a reaction. TK's lead to kicks and bans, if your community can't handle the original predicament (IE teamplay) then there's something wrong. DMR wise I haven't witnessed this. Most of t he people are (very) bad (including me) with the BDC on the PSO-1 (Ironically I'm rather good with it IRL). So most of the kills are while the troops are fairly close range for the SVD. 

 

The primary limitation for the loot shouldn't be the operation, bur rather the ammo for it. Also, early PR was about hunting for US troops for the kills as much as for their weapons. But I digress the idea is to be able to pick your own team kit, in many cases it's easy ammo you currently can't loot. Funny also how otther "reality games" like Arma/OPFP have no issue with you looting still hot OPFOR bodies...

 

Also the fact that you can't pick up ammo or weapons from fallen comrades, leads to a very dubious predicament...this game doesn't favour people who are actually good at shooting other people. I've found myself down to the last mag half a dozen times, because I can't revive guys, can't pick up ammo, and the OPFOR had a RP/FOB just around the corner. This is simply put unacceptable. Not because it's me, but because a very unrealistic feature of the game, gets the better of what should be a fairly normal part of the game. When that happens, the whole realistic moniker gets out of the window.

 

That 9 guys take on one and kill the bejezus out of him, there's no problem, especially if he's holed up, but that in CQB with a lot of chutzpah you actually can't be rewarded for your guts and aim, that's simply unacceptable IMO.

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Well, if you're down to your last mag, and OPFOR has a fob nearby, shouldn't you disengage and regroup with your Squad? Not judging, just asking...

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Well, if you're down to your last mag, and OPFOR has a fob nearby, shouldn't you disengage and regroup with your Squad? Not judging, just asking...

 

 

Tried and died. The best solution I've found so far is going through/Skirting the FOB area on the opposite direction.

Also that's not always an option on the game plan. Especially if the goal is to make that  FOB gone or is a cache isn't far away.

 

Tactically, with enough ammo and peripheral movement you should make your presence felt and slow down progress until own squad comes up. Once again, it will become a slaughter once INS would be able to deply LMG's/SAW's.

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Well you have a REALITY issue then. It was already a problem in PR (you get killed by infidel poisoned DiemacoC8 wat?) and the PR problem wasn't one, it insured a long gaming sessions, I mean I've seen maps end in 12 minutes because ticks were bled out on one side and usually the side which shouldn't IRL. Sumari maps I've played, the US gets its butt handed over. Like 90% of the time. A dev here said that unlike PR the game's mechanics are basically skill related. Just thing about it... Short range firefights with slight to no advantage on both sides will simply become meat grinders, what was the big PRO in PR was that issue with the Lone Survivor Zombying his team up from Hell. Hell it made killing a completely different ballgame, than most other shooters. Unless you saw the kill count go +1 you weren't sure the enemy had lost a ticket.

 

Right  now it's too straightforward, and that doesn't exactly reward objective playing. You can see teams hold 5 flags out of 6 but lose on tick counts. That's unnacceptable. Yeah Pyrrhic victories, should be victories in AAS not utter disasters. Then why have Russia ingame FFS? :rolleyes:

 

You're right about kit swapping dragging out matches, but I don't think that's a good thing. I'm by no means a PR veteran, I probably only played 30ish matches but I think the Squad system is better because it means the combat is lethal, if your squad makes a bad decision or an opposing squad makes a good one that 9 or more tickets lost which means actions have real consequences.

 

I don't want to play a game where my squad walked into a bad spot, got wiped to a single man, then got revived and left. I want players to make game winning or losing decisions because they couldn't just get back up and at it if they made the wrong choice.

 

And the devs are right about the core gameplay changing from PR. Individual skill is now important, it still doesn't beat good tactics but it does punish bad tactics. Like the Sumari example, the US needs to apply different tactics than the other factions because they are not as well equipped to fight in dense urban environments, and I've seen the US win because they've done just that by moving to the rooftops rather than the streets. With that being said though half of Sumari isn't released yet, so it might open up a bit or go more vertical.

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You're right about kit swapping dragging out matches, but I don't think that's a good thing. I'm by no means a PR veteran, I probably only played 30ish matches but I think the Squad system is better because it means the combat is lethal, if your squad makes a bad decision or an opposing squad makes a good one that 9 or more tickets lost which means actions have real consequences.

 

I don't want to play a game where my squad walked into a bad spot, got wiped to a single man, then got revived and left. I want players to make game winning or losing decisions because they couldn't just get back up and at it if they made the wrong choice.

 

And the devs are right about the core gameplay changing from PR. Individual skill is now important, it still doesn't beat good tactics but it does punish bad tactics. Like the Sumari example, the US needs to apply different tactics than the other factions because they are not as well equipped to fight in dense urban environments, and I've seen the US win because they've done just that by moving to the rooftops rather than the streets. With that being said though half of Sumari isn't released yet, so it might open up a bit or go more vertical.

 

 

Actually the combat was as lethal in PR as well. The issue was more related with aiming dynamics and overall paleolithic engine shortcomings, than skill.

Plus the core issue remains, if the lone survivior is a medic, well the whole squad will get back up. If the squad has enough sense, then only the medic taps out and goes back to heal the rest of the squad, if he can. Also seeing how the weapons sit on the ground, to me is clearly a sign that picking up kits is going to get there sometime.

 

On the tactics side, given a whole lot of things are about to get implemented, I feel that maps like Sumari or Chora will only get worse for the Anti-Insurgent force. Chora/Sumari are IED-paradise.

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Actually the combat was as lethal in PR as well. The issue was more related with aiming dynamics and overall paleolithic engine shortcomings, than skill.

Plus the core issue remains, if the lone survivior is a medic, well the whole squad will get back up. If the squad has enough sense, then only the medic taps out and goes back to heal the rest of the squad, if he can. Also seeing how the weapons sit on the ground, to me is clearly a sign that picking up kits is going to get there sometime.

 

There will be instances where a medic survives and revives an entire squad yes, but that will happen a lot less than in PR.

 

Also, the closest to an official word on picking up kits is this from Z-Trooper "For the record I am not ruling out that you may be able to pick up some kit equipment from fallen soldiers at some point in the far future. But don't expect it, especially not anytime soon." and "One of the things I hated the most from PR is the kit cycling and just assuming anyones role and associated skills and training just because their stuff is lying on the ground in front of you." So it won't be like PRs system, but either way it's not coming for a while.

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There will be instances where a medic survives and revives an entire squad yes, but that will happen a lot less than in PR.

 

Also, the closest to an official word on picking up kits is this from Z-Trooper "For the record I am not ruling out that you may be able to pick up some kit equipment from fallen soldiers at some point in the far future. But don't expect it, especially not anytime soon." and "One of the things I hated the most from PR is the kit cycling and just assuming anyones role and associated skills and training just because their stuff is lying on the ground in front of you." So it won't be like PRs system, but either way it's not coming for a while.

 

Actually, it's just a learning process. I due time the people who will stick around and will take this game seriously will end up with conclusion that the medic unit, is the most valuable one and they will act accordingly.

One of the things I liked most about PR was kit Cycling, when you could defend a whole point alone with three kits bunched up together in a defensive position. Including Anti-Insurgent kits that I'd pick up and fire a couple of shots with (yeah optics) before swaping. I suppose that's why PR became squad, so no reference to any kind of realism was to be expected. Anyway still the best there is. :ph34r:

 

It only ads more challenge to the game. Otherwise it will become lopsided, very very quickly.

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There will be instances where a medic survives and revives an entire squad yes, but that will happen a lot less than in PR.

 

Also, the closest to an official word on picking up kits is this from Z-Trooper "For the record I am not ruling out that you may be able to pick up some kit equipment from fallen soldiers at some point in the far future. But don't expect it, especially not anytime soon." and "One of the things I hated the most from PR is the kit cycling and just assuming anyones role and associated skills and training just because their stuff is lying on the ground in front of you." So it won't be like PRs system, but either way it's not coming for a while.

Hmmmm, I'd never read that before. Be interested to see how it evolves and what changes they have in mind. It could be cool if you could only utilize certain kit items from a team mates body. Maybe ammo & grenades only, or a medics medpack and bandages, but they can only be used on the Medic. I'm always in favor of realism and making it tougher to survive!

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I get their point but their logic is very flawed. I think to get the best of both worlds they should maybe have some kits that can not be picked up (very few such as pilot/crewman) and most should be able to. Yeah a medic/Corpsman receives more advanced training but if you want to nit pick about realism many Marines also go though combat life saving(CLS) courses and EVERY Marine knows how to stop the bleeding and dress a wound which in reality is about all the doc ever does anyway. Throw the occasional IV drip and morphine stab in there and that's about %90 of your combat wounds addressed. CLS qualified personnel know how to do the later two as well. I'd be willing to bet that the Army has something similar.

 

And for other kits there is absolutely no argument to be made about fellow soldiers not knowing how to use the kit. Every Marine (and I'd wager soldier too) knows how to use a LAW, M203, M249, M240, Mk12 (to some effect), Mk19, M2, M27, M32, etc.

 

As it stands now, it doesn't bother me too much, but if in the future I take a squad mate to set up a rocket shot on a vehicle only to have him killed and me sitting there staring at the fallen rocket pretending my guy "couldn't know how to use it," well that would be a little silly.

 

And just to clarify, as a programmer in training myself I understand this is all easier said that done. If the work it will take is not worth the benefit then so be it. Keep doing you devs! :)

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You absolutely should be able to pick up kits. The entire job of some of the regular rifleman in real squads is to be an assistant automatic rifleman or assistant gunner for a rocket. Those men are trained just as well as the main gunner and they are tasked with picking up the squad support weapon to carry on. I can understand not getting the medic kit due to not all rifleman in a squad being trained to that level but the grenadier, lmg, and rockets should absolutely be able to be picked up. 

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Realism<Gameplay is what we have right here in its natural element. Here you see the people wanting a realism because every soldier can use every gun in the world. But they don't see the majestic gameplay beast in all of it's glory. 

 

 I like how the devs will probably implement being able to pick up pieces of equipment but not kits. It broke gameplay in PR by swapping around kits. As said by multiple people in this thread. It isn't a good thing that you can do that. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the assistant gunner or spotter being able to pick up their friendly kit. I can't see you being able to pick up your enemies kit as that was a problem in PR. Like what kind of game do you want to play here? Do you want to play your faction and try to play against the other faction who might play extremely differently because of their weapon loadouts? Or do you just want to have an M4 with an acog as a wee lil Insurgent? 

 

Limited yes, unlimited no. Absolutely no being able to pick up an entire kit. 

 

 Even though every Marine is capable of using most of their weapons, they most likely haven't specialized in it and only used it in basic. There are specialized trainings to do that because everybody has a role. You know those guys in the military that just carry a 240 or 249? That's their job. They never put that down. That's their weapon. You know the guys with the M4s? That's their weapon. They don't put that down. Maybe if you are screwed because your people are dying you will go get on a different weapon system but that should be a very rare case realistically, probably happens more often than I would like it to... God bless the US military :) 

 

It's important to realize each faction has different weapons that do different things. The insurgents have more rockets and explosives than the US team, but the US team has more scopes and awesome technology. They should be used accordingly, and should absolutely be forced in that way as it is much exaggerated anyways with how the factions are built. Screw picking up kits if you are just going to be an insurgent US rifleman. What kind of strategy and gameplay is that? 

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