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Kits, Roles, Limits and Steam launch

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Good point.

MadMak might have additional concerns. This was just from top of my head. As an example: as an admin (in PR) you needed to resign an SL from squad.

It helped to jump in their squad and explaining what was happening, maybe their SL was breaking a serverrule repeatedly and not listening to comms or responding to warnings (or AFK?), so you can steer them right more easy and less disruptive to general gameplay.

You just kick a baseraping SL their squad may feel lost and just continue what they were doing, more kicks...

It's just very helpful for admins to be able to talk to all players.

It be nice to see what we get for SQUAD.

Does anyone know what's been said so far in this regard?

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Maybe you need to talk to a friend or something specific.

I honestly still dont see any of that as genuinely constructive reasons to delay kit loss upon leaving a squad. I dont mean to come off rude or blunt, you just havent convinced me.

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you just havent convinced me.

I don't really need to.

 

You can't really predict what circumstances would make you join other squad for a short time. I am just too lazy to make a list, but what I am sure, is that the whole system isn't fool proof. For now it's like an immediate punishment for leaving your squad, no matter what, but if you misclicked or whatever? It's like a button "remove your kit" without a confirmation dialog.

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my point was not every sniper unit/squad/team needs a medic committed to them to exist.

fine not every but  what if that squad wants to have a marksmen/Medic because it makes the most since in the moment?

 

you still need 5 members and that limited is there simple because as the Devs says "Lone Wolf". So because of some "Lone Wolf" we should completely remove a valid Tactic? 

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I don't really need to.

You can't really predict what circumstances would make you join other squad for a short time. I am just too lazy to make a list, but what I am sure, is that the whole system isn't fool proof. For now it's like an immediate punishment for leaving your squad, no matter what, but if you misclicked or whatever? It's like a button "remove your kit" without a confirmation dialog.

 

Who said there wouldn't be a confirmation dialog? Seems like having one would be a fail safe step to make sure people dont lose their kit by mistake.

Also, for right now its heavily WiP and the devs are going to be witnessing exactly how these new systems work out for people and then tweaking it if they see fit based on the patterns that arise. It's called playtesting -- not just playing, mate.

 

fine not every but what if that squad wants to have a marksmen/Medic because it makes the most since in the moment?

you still need 5 members and that limited is there simple because as the Devs says "Lone Wolf". So because of some "Lone Wolf" we should completely remove a valid Tactic?

 

If you want your recon squad to have a medic then get the necessary amount of people in your squad and do it, and then refer to my second paragraph above.

I think everyone should give this a chance before they get too concerned over it being too punishing or limiting. The update isnt even here yet.

EDIT: please read the entire OP, especially where it covers MEDICS. Minimum requirement to have a medic in your squad is 2 people. People already got that changed before the update even arrived.

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i understand the medic is only 2 people but the marksmen needs 5. that is 3 short that is needed. again the Dev themselves  they made a hard cap on that class for "Lone Wolfs".

So now what would happen to those who want just a 2 - 3 men squad? its ether forget about the Whole Valid Tactic or they have to get into another squad. Take a Marksmen/Sniper Class take a Medic plus anyone else if they wish. which leave that squad 2 - 3 men short. if 5 is the limited for a Marksmen i cant image the Cap for a Sniper.

 

on top of that that any info/Data they do grab has to go through first the Squad lead then from him to the other Squad lead.

 

in PR many squads dislike people using snipers in their squad and block that out. in the end this will do 2 things. complete Block an aspic of play that some people enjoy (two man sniper Team) or these same people will piss of a few squads.

 

Here the solution, why not give the power of limiting Kits to the Squad Lead? Give the Squad Lead the power to over ride 1 or 2 class restriction. this way we can still have Sniper Team/ Recon Teams. Still have some balance within Squads, and not have issues with Sniper team entering bother other Squads.

 

Sorry if this feels like a rant, which it is not, but i have to go ageist something that remove Tactic which is use in Reality. last time i check PR stood for Project Reality which Squad is taking from that Idea. this is a hammer to a small issue.

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So now what would happen to those who want just a 2 - 3 men squad? its ether forget about the Whole Valid Tactic or they have to get into another squad. 

 

I encourage you to try out the new update and try implementing a recon squad before continuing to think that the devs are purposefully ruining a valid tactic that you care about.

 

The insurgents are the only ones with an actual 'Marksman' rifle at the moment, and yes, the squad limit on that is 5 people. However, at least on the US side, an ACOG is just as capable of scoping out distant targets and reconnoitering enemy positions as the SVD is. (Both currently have 4x optics).

 

Also, consider this very important piece:

 

The officer kit has binoculars. 

 

90% of what an effective sniper/recon team should be doing is gathering intel and reporting back to their squad/team. Not taking their preferred long rifle and picking off targets to sport the highest K/D on the team. 

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"90% of what an effective sniper/recon team should be doing is gathering intel and reporting back to their squad/team. Not taking their preferred long rifle and picking off targets to sport the highest K/D on the team. "

 

This is the true Reason why they are doing it. nothing else, the only reason why many are in support of this. Shall i need to point out the one other objective a Sniper Team has?

 

this is a Hammer to a small issue nothing else.  To simple Remove one type of player base and not much else without the care of those who really do like to play as a Recon/Sniper Team and play it right.

 

why not limted ammo but give these classes better item to do Recon? this will solve your K/D issue and still keep the play style in play or simple remove every single Code that involves K/D stat would also help too.

 

and one more thing. No matter how much i play the game. 2 - 3 is still 3 to 2 men short of 5. Basic Math, all in all i know there will be many times that now I instead of two medic will have to take care of a squad because one left with a sniper team or simple the squad will have less men because they were forcefully put into another squad. they will get their kits and they will leave to do their own thing. This will tik me and the squad off. So the lone wolf issue is still there anyways. or simple they create a whole Squad of Lone Wolfs which mean the problem is still not fix at all. it simple is just effecting those who play the game not lone wolfs. So its not just a Hammer to a small issue but a Hammer that miss the nail anyways.

 

also note, this is a guy that simple likes to play as the Medic within a Squad not a Recon Team.

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i understand the medic is only 2 people but the marksmen needs 5. that is 3 short that is needed. again the Dev themselves they made a hard cap on that class for "Lone Wolfs".

So now what would happen to those who want just a 2 - 3 men squad? its ether forget about the Whole Valid Tactic or they have to get into another squad. Take a Marksmen/Sniper Class take a Medic plus anyone else if they wish. which leave that squad 2 - 3 men short. if 5 is the limited for a Marksmen i cant image the Cap for a Sniper.

on top of that that any info/Data they do grab has to go through first the Squad lead then from him to the other Squad lead.

in PR many squads dislike people using snipers in their squad and block that out. in the end this will do 2 things. complete Block an aspic of play that some people enjoy (two man sniper Team) or these same people will piss of a few squads.

Here the solution, why not give the power of limiting Kits to the Squad Lead? Give the Squad Lead the power to over ride 1 or 2 class restriction. this way we can still have Sniper Team/ Recon Teams. Still have some balance within Squads, and not have issues with Sniper team entering bother other Squads.

Sorry if this feels like a rant, which it is not, but i have to go ageist something that remove Tactic which is use in Reality. last time i check PR stood for Project Reality which Squad is taking from that Idea. this is a hammer to a small issue.

Why would your two-three men needs outweigh the rest of the teams needs?

There is a coming teamrestriction on kits. Why would we (the rest of the team) have you have a certain weapon that would be in better use for a bigger squad?

If Recon is your purpose; binocs work.

If they implement your idea, every nme encounter you have, you will face a marksman. How fun is that?

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Shall i need to point out the one other objective a Sniper Team has?

 

Please do -- I don't see it anywhere in your post.

 

This solution is, once again, a WiP; which means Work in Progress. I've outlined how people can still be an effective recon unit in this extremely early and heavily WiP environment. That's all I really have to say on this topic any further.

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If we can cover 90% of the cases by launch of Early Access, we are more than happy.

 

If you want to have a 2 man squad, you want to run as a fireteam inside of a squad, break off with your SLs permission. That is how you get access to those kits.

 

We don't want to see 2 man squads. The game is called "squad", not "sniper + spotter".

 

This is how it is going to be. This is the vision. There won't be sniper, marksmen or other kits that contain significant weapon changes available to 1-2 man squads.

 

Nothing preventing from operating as a 2 man fire team inside of a squad as long as you SL is ok with it and doesn't kick you from the squad.

 

Marksmen, snipers, ect. are assets that are situational. A squad should use them when the situation calls for it, as a tool to solve an issue, not as an auto include. There are plenty of games out there if you want to shoot people at long range without them being able to shoot back.

 

Regarding leaving a squad and keeping a kit... I can't see why you would want this, when you have ways of communication, local chat, SL can to to SL.

Players should learn that in Squad - if you leave a squad - you loose your squad kit.

 

That is how that is. We may make timers in the future, but this brings us full circle. This is first iteration, and if can cover 90% of the issues in time for EA, then we are more than happy, covering edge cases is not our current objective.

 

This thread is basically just a back and forth about people wanting their edge cases covered at this point. Understandable, but that is not how this works at this stage of the game. We do iterative development where we cover as many cases as we can in one go, and then move on to the next. We then come back and reevaluate the systems at a later date and see if we can cover a large chunk of missing cases.

 

I'm closing the thread from further feedback at this point. Trust me when I say that we fully appreciate the concerns and the feedback. We are aware of many things that this system doesn't currently cover.

 

Create a topic AFTER you have tried the new system in action if there is any additional feedback.

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