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Future of Cheat Protection

  

341 members have voted

  1. 1. Which option would you prefer

    • Option 1
      93
    • Option 2
      248


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As I posted above, we have built a system that works just like FF but without the cost and people behind it. It takes care of all the people that would be banned for stats, everything else is taken care of by admins. It made our job significantly easier.

May I ask if the system is also as complex as FF? And also, is it compatible to UnrealEngine?

​You guys seem to have some very experienced people around.

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FF isn't as complex as people may think it is. Compatibility is moot as we can build for any engine. The program we use was custom built from the ground up.

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FF isn't as complex as people may think it is. Compatibility is moot as we can build for any engine. The program we use was custom built from the ground up.

Our IT guy spent a weekend building a program that would scan every single player in our BF4 server's and match their stat's to BF4DB. If it was found that their numbers were high, they were removed. It would scan people every 5 minutes, not only did it cut our security guys some slack but it streamlined the banning process. The program was doing the same work that Fairfight does and it was built for free. Since BF4DB is down, we moved to a different site. There are other ways to combat cheating other than dropping hefty amounts of cash on a service that can be replicated with some crafty skills.

I'm sorry but you absolutely can't just setup something over the weekend and have it do the same job as a program a team of people has been working on for a long time. Only using data available from those stat websites also limits you to just a few features. Better than nothing, but nowhere near what FF does.

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Programming it ourselves is definitely not that easy as it sounds. From what I read here, FF is rather sophisticated and includes a multitude of very specific statistics.

A large part of this also involves a long testing/training phase of the thresholds. It is essential, that a system like that works reliably and with as little false positives as possible while remaining efficient.

In case of a single server like Army, a good player identified as cheater falsely is not a big deal since it's his server and his choice which players are allowed to join.

One can always argue that he simply does not want players with a KD of e.g. 20 because this reduces the fun of others, no matter if he's cheating or not.

What I wanna say is that in this case a rather simple system might work perfectly fine for them.

However, if you ban people globally from your game, you need to make sure you're not punishing the wrong people.

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Being a PB Steaming Admin for many years.Why is PBBans not being looked at since they have supplied anti-cheat service for all the battlefield games.Streaming servers and client side monitoring,Without the down falls of both options 1 and 2.

Our group and alot of other groups have spent the money to co-host or rent dedicated boxes.It is not cheap to run a tier 1 box with the horsepower and bandwidth to support 100 man servers with low lag.But many of us have them.With one option our box cannot be used the second option VAC is a Joke all one has to do is look at the Call of Duty series, that use it to see.It is only my option but I think that all the gaming clans in the world are looking for a new tactical game,Where they can control their server,where they can use all the talented people in gaming to create mods, new world maps,new ideas to make a game grow better.But no matter how great a game maybe Cheaters ruin it for everyone and they kill games.Tactical players and Tactical Clans spend the time to play and create skill sets.Which cheating trumps.If SQUAD wants to be the number 1 game in the world "And it could be",Anti-Cheat and Anti-Hack should be a number one issue to address.The above options do not ,They are like a bandaid on a bullet hole,You don't see it and it hurts like hell.

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The FF system is exactly that. Since they don't publish exactly how their system works, one can only assume that they are banning the most obvious examples of cheating through stats. We also don't care what your KD is, as long as you got it legitimately. We don't remove good player's from our server's(8 of them, not one like you think) to make everyone's experience better, we tell them to deal with it. If they are cheating, they will be caught. If for some reason their stats are on the edge of what is considered high, we spend hours spectating that person, literally. Maybe this community isn't used to seeing an established department of security specific admins, that's what we have in ours. Our admin's are required to provide legitimate proof when banning someone. If you would like to see our server's in action, look up "=rtr=" in the server browser for BF4, we only host Hardcore servers. 

 

As a small company of developer's, they should explore all the option's before dropping what I assume is a hefty amount of cash on a service that isn't guaranteed to work 100%. I understand that they may not have extra time or resources to spend time on program's like this but it was worth mentioning. 

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Exactly why we are asking. We arent experts in this field and we know for a fact there are a lot 9f smart minds in our community.

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I didn't read all of the replies here but what I have read is that most people do not understand what the fairfight server is. IT IS NOT a game server. it is a third party server that connects to your game server to protect it with Fairfight. no games are played on the fairfight servers only on your game server.

 

FairFight® is a non-invasive, customizable, Server Side Anti-Cheat engine using agnostic technology that operates in real time. It does not reside on the player's computer or the game server, and does not examine the players' devices or perpetually look for the latest hacks

 

 

Unless the Global Game Servers is putting the game of their own servers outside of Steam which would then mean no VAC.

 

I think if I am incorrect on this and I am getting this info directly off the GameBlocks website then Squad Admins need to be more clear on exactly how this will work. I am seeing it as you rent your game server with the game and VAC on it then you rent a GameBlocks server with Fairfight to monitor your server with the game on it. Yes? or No?

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I'm sorry but you absolutely can't just setup something over the weekend and have it do the same job as a program a team of people has been working on for a long time. Only using data available from those stat websites also limits you to just a few features. Better than nothing, but nowhere near what FF does.

 

If all you're doing is basing this off of overall stats, you probably could do it in a weekend. The advantage of FF is they do a little more than that. The question is the difference enough to go with the downside of FF.

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Option 2, it's not a good thing to limit people on where they can buy a server.

 

And i hope you guys are looking at Punkbuster and PBBans, always loved seeing a server message in a game stating that user whatshisname was banned.

 

 

this and fairlight :)

 

whatever u guys choose you better get it right !! cheaters can KILL a game very fast

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FF isn't as complex as people may think it is. Compatibility is moot as we can build for any engine. The program we use was custom built from the ground up.

So you're telling me that you guys can make it a simple server-side plugin, that sounds good.

​I'm just thinking about this post:

Anyway, FF doesn't just track the obvious stats like K/D and they don't just ban for those. They collect lots of other small stats, something like:

-The amount of time you're aiming close to somebody despite them not being visible (ESP).

-Your accuracy when you're shooting close enough to somebody for each weapon.

-Impact spots - where your bullets hit to see if you always hit the exact same spot or spots (aimbot).

-Viewangles when you're aiming close to an enemy to see if you're doing inhuman motions (either skipping a bunch of pixels, snapping directly onto the same point, having perfectly smoothed motions (even if not linear) etc.)

-Player's paths to see if a player is moving from one enemy towards another one all the time (ESP).

-Amount of time you spend sprinting to check for infinite stamina.

-Your speed to check for speedhacks.

-Moving directly from A to B despite there being a wall in-between.

-Reaction time to check for constant values or sudden changes.

And a bunch of other stats that detect obvious stuff like getting 10 kills in 2s when the enemies are 50m apart each... Lots of these are incredibly hard/ impossible for an admin to spot and can still end up looking completely legit.

Probably the best part is that if a mediocre player starts cheating his stats will suddenly rise and he'll get banned no matter how good looking his stuff is or how not-obvious his stats themselves are.​

Are you guys aware of all the other stats they collect?

Do you have a compare-list to see which features you offer, compared to FF?

Is your tool OpenSource or are you keeping it proprietary (and If so, how do you guarantee that you'll keep up the support for it, updates etc.)?

These are just things that come into my mind, in no way I request anyone to answer these, but I think they're important.

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Okay so if FairFight is the option selected, what server hoster can we use in Australia? Will it only be the one? What if they provide a poor service? Are we stuck with them? Can FairFight be used on a dedicated server of our choosing?

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I see a few people posting here that have 0 understanding of how big data and statistics work or should work.

Big Data analysis and statistics isn't some new science that has yet to be proven in academic fields.

FF isn't the "end all" of finding a cheater, Rather it provides an accurate context and a Proactive filter to focus other resources like admins viewing players and file scanning.

A system that automatically bans for high numbers is a system made out of ignorance and fear. It may on average keep the game much more fair, but that is not an educated application of statistics. Don't confuse Such a system with proper statistics and data analysis. 

Having personally worked on the application of big data analysis in gaming, worked specially in its use in Insurgency Competitive, conducted case study's for upcoming publications on the subject, and also focused my carrier and education in the field, FF is a very sound system in theory, Obviously I don't have the literal algorithm So I can't speak with 100% certainty, but the application of data tracking and analysis for anti-cheat is a very sound system. Banking for one is a very proactive place where this application is used daily. With great success.

VAC/Scan systems are very passive and require constant maintenance and exploit additions, FF (in comparison) is very proactive without such maintenance. Being capable of flagging accounts IN the act to then be scanned and monitored later is a very very valuable tool. Maybe I do not know how scan system works but often they don't scan every time you load the game, and there are thousands of ways around such scans.

The ability for FF to set up mutli staged analysis (not just Pass/Fail on scans when they occur) Allows active monitoring 24/7 not just once a month when a file scan is conducted.

TLDR

The stats behind a good FF system are extensive and include many things not commonly known about. BanOkay gives a GREAT in depth post on the types of data collected. Its not just KD. 

banning someone for high numbers is NOT how FF works, Should work and operate. That is a critical mistake in understanding of statistics and data. http://puu.sh/llEf7/114c45f4af.jpg. a single outlier game with high numbers should NEVER result in immediate ban. Rather it should result in a Flagging of my account, Admins paying attention to me (spectating me) and potentially a scan conducted right away or at a later time.

A FF system combined with a Cheat scanning software, is an extremely powerful combo. FF provides the data and context, Scanning provides the hard proof.

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Well they don't seem to want to explain how it works themselves so I'll just write some stuff I found around (just Google it if you want more info).

Anyway, FF doesn't just track the obvious stats like K/D and they don't just ban for those. They collect lots of other small stats, something like:

-The amount of time you're aiming close to somebody despite them not being visible (ESP).

-Your accuracy when you're shooting close enough to somebody for each weapon.

-Impact spots - where your bullets hit to see if you always hit the exact same spot or spots (aimbot).

-Viewangles when you're aiming close to an enemy to see if you're doing inhuman motions (either skipping a bunch of pixels, snapping directly onto the same point, having perfectly smoothed motions (even if not linear) etc.)

-Player's paths to see if a player is moving from one enemy towards another one all the time (ESP).

-Amount of time you spend sprinting to check for infinite stamina.

-Your speed to check for speedhacks.

-Moving directly from A to B despite there being a wall in-between.

-Reaction time to check for constant values or sudden changes.

And a bunch of other stats that detect obvious stuff like getting 10 kills in 2s when the enemies are 50m apart each... Lots of these are incredibly hard/ impossible for an admin to spot and can still end up looking completely legit.

Probably the best part is that if a mediocre player starts cheating his stats will suddenly rise and he'll get banned no matter how good looking his stuff is or how not-obvious his stats themselves are.

I think if the DEVs are interested in developing their own solution it would be much better if they develop a plugin to block sending packets about players positions you can't see (rip ESP).

This, Great in depth post.

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i myself would prefer no cheating, which right now we have mostly grownups playing, as long as our personal info and game info is safe then i'm all for what the dev's choose

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I would go for Anti-Cheat. Here my reasons:

 

  • Availability: There are so much games out there destroyed by cheaters these Days.

 

  • Squad Gameplay: In COD you run / gun / dead run with or without cheaters. In this Game cheating can kill the game quickly, because you can not play it. A whole Squad can get killed with one Grenade. rinse and repeat, server empty.

 

  • Its UT4 Engine and VAC. Major Hack Sites will jump on this game if it sells well. They already have plenty of experience with UT4 and VAC. Cheats will be all over the Internet. When get banned the cheater will re-buy $30 isn't much.

 

  • Fairfight is not invasive. It doesn't touch game performance or in-game mechanics, so its a good solution based on stats and math.

 

  • Modded Content is great, but i don't think we need mods so urgent to sacrifice cheat protection. PR has done a great Job as a Mod. Now in Control of a whole Engine the Devs will make Squad so much better. I simply dont need mods.

 

This.

 

If you only have VAC, the game will be ruined. Do you realize that it is very very easy to create basic hacks that bypass VAC?

 

The game would be ruined in just a few days. Therefore, we need Option 1 (which still isn't a great choice but better than the second).

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Just keep in mind that in case one has to purchase from a specific server hoster this will definitely limit the amount of servers available.

Most clans/communities I'm familiar with already rent a dedicated server box to be able to host several gameservers. However, they might be very hesitant spending even more money on a second server for Squad.

While I agree that cheaters ruin games, no dedicated communities ruin a game as well.

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Cheaters are voting for option 2 hehe

If we can have both, I vote for option 1. As for the number of servers, I will prefer FairPlay server if there would be one. This is in administration interest to have your server FairPlay enabled.

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Grunt PB is a joke seriously there are soo many hackers in BF and AA and any other game that uses PB i cant even ponder why you would say it is a good anti cheat

Being a PB Steaming Admin for many years.Why is PBBans not being looked at since they have supplied anti-cheat service for all the battlefield games.Streaming servers and client side monitoring,Without the down falls of both options 1 and 2.

Our group and alot of other groups have spent the money to co-host or rent dedicated boxes.It is not cheap to run a tier 1 box with the horsepower and bandwidth to support 100 man servers with low lag.But many of us have them.With one option our box cannot be used the second option VAC is a Joke all one has to do is look at the Call of Duty series, that use it to see.It is only my option but I think that all the gaming clans in the world are looking for a new tactical game,Where they can control their server,where they can use all the talented people in gaming to create mods, new world maps,new ideas to make a game grow better.But no matter how great a game maybe Cheaters ruin it for everyone and they kill games.Tactical players and Tactical Clans spend the time to play and create skill sets.Which cheating trumps.If SQUAD wants to be the number 1 game in the world "And it could be",Anti-Cheat and Anti-Hack should be a number one issue to address.The above options do not ,They are like a bandaid on a bullet hole,You don't see it and it hurts like hell.

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Being a PB Steaming Admin for many years.Why is PBBans not being looked at since they have supplied anti-cheat service for all the battlefield games.Streaming servers and client side monitoring,Without the down falls of both options 1 and 2.

Our group and alot of other groups have spent the money to co-host or rent dedicated boxes.It is not cheap to run a tier 1 box with the horsepower and bandwidth to support 100 man servers with low lag.But many of us have them.With one option our box cannot be used the second option VAC is a Joke all one has to do is look at the Call of Duty series, that use it to see.It is only my option but I think that all the gaming clans in the world are looking for a new tactical game,Where they can control their server,where they can use all the talented people in gaming to create mods, new world maps,new ideas to make a game grow better.But no matter how great a game maybe Cheaters ruin it for everyone and they kill games.Tactical players and Tactical Clans spend the time to play and create skill sets.Which cheating trumps.If SQUAD wants to be the number 1 game in the world "And it could be",Anti-Cheat and Anti-Hack should be a number one issue to address.The above options do not ,They are like a bandaid on a bullet hole,You don't see it and it hurts like hell.

Punkbuster really is a pile of crap. I was playing BF3 over the weekend and was getting killed (over and over) by one player with an [Ammo Box]. That is not even a weapon! It's also not a clever hack. I think the player didn't even care. This was on a ranked, PB enabled server. I have a few favorite servers I go on in BF3 and the amount of hackers that get around PB ruin what's left of the game for me.

 

It seems like a better way to see if someone is cheating would be to look at stats. It's pretty easy to figure out that someone with 24 mins of play time with an 8 K/D ratio is probably cheating. I don't know all of the stats in the background, but if the game has stats for everything you would tell if someone was aiming at a location where another player was and shooting before they appeared, if a shot was registering the correct amount of damage, or the player was getting 100% headshots. This would let you tell if there was a wallhack, damage mod, aimbot, etc... I am sure there are many more stats that can be used and I suspect that this is what FF does in the background.

 

It's probably possible for the devs to write something that does the same thing, but why would they? Spend time developing the game or stop development to write an anti-cheat technology. It seems in this case that the best option would be to outsource the anti-cheat tech to someone that is doing it already. I just hope that including FF in a vanilla server wouldn't mean you are restricted to only using certain hosting providers vs standing up your own gaming server. I would love to see you be able to host your own gaming server and have it FF enabled. I wouldn't split between different anti-cheat technologies like VAC/PB. Pick one of them and go with it for all (vanilla) servers. If FF is only looking at stats I don't see why that couldn't be incorporated into mods as well.

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FairFight -- "KCIV" , You are exactly right. FF is simply a algorithmic analysis of players stats,using algorithmic models
evaluating game play of a player against tolerances set by a programmer.Many of us have used Big Brother Bot,
With plugins to develop a player database in similar fashion.It's simply statistics. Not a Anti-Cheat system.

VAC -- Can Bypassed easily Using a loader with Ring0, injecting a Ring3.dll into game.

PB -- Ring0 Punk Buster is said to have a kernel driver to detect. Some simple stat's will prove that,These are not
Server Admin bans they are PB System bans.

Battlefield 2 over 21,000 Bans for Aimbot,Md5 tool,MultiHack
Battlefield Bad Company over 20,000 Bans for Aimbot,Md5 tool,MultiHack
Battlefield 3 over 75,000 Bans for Aimbot,Md5 tool,MultiHack
Battlefield 4 over 11,000 Bans for Aimbot,Md5 tool,MultiHack

 

For you Server Admins that say PB is nothing but problems.You can login to PB and the Jedi there will take
care of your problems.99% of the time your server was not configured right or not updated properly.But it's easier
to bash the EB/PB system than admit fault.So the way I see it EB/PB has removed over 100,000 cheaters in BF series I listed.
But don't take my word for it, look yourself  http://www.pbbans.com/master-ban-index.html

 

 Here is a idea for the developers, Simply push a daily small update to the .exe file.Every day players would have to login
 and download.It would not be worth the pay hack sites to update there files daily to keep up.The free ones would disappear.

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FairFight -- "KCIV" , You are exactly right. FF is simply a algorithmic analysis of players stats,using algorithmic models

evaluating game play of a player against tolerances set by a programmer.Many of us have used Big Brother Bot,

With plugins to develop a player database in similar fashion.It's simply statistics. Not a Anti-Cheat system.

If your cheat is undetected you can do whatever the hell you want because PB or VAC won't be able to do anything about it. FF on the other hand is something you can't get around, it's always there and will easily ban you. That's already a huge advantage of FF versus a traditional client sided AC.

 

VAC -- Can Bypassed easily Using a loader with Ring0, injecting a Ring3.dll into game.

VAC has deployed a ring0 module and has detected ring0 cheats in the past so this isn't true. Having a ring0 driver also doesn't mean a ring3 AC can't detect it, it just sounds nice since most people don't know what these things are.

 

Battlefield 2 over 21,000 Bans for Aimbot,Md5 tool,MultiHack

And there's still a free public undetected cheat for BF2 available since 2009, probably not the only one either. These numbers mean nothing.

 

Here is a idea for the developers, Simply push a daily small update to the .exe file.Every day players would have to login

and download.It would not be worth the pay hack sites to update there files daily to keep up.The free ones would disappear.

Signature scanning is a thing...

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