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Chuc

Animation Update - M4 mag change

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KaB   

PLEASE, GOD PLEASE, make the character look to his Weapon/Magazine while he is reloading.He looks like an Alien reloading looking forward.  :o

I think the view is linked to the head movements. So if you wanna make the head model looking at the mag, it'll do the same for the players view, which might be quite an annoying thing.

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KaB   

I don't know how it works, but this is the case in Battlefield 2

Not at all. In BF2, the 1p stuff, which is everything that happens in front of your eyes (detailed hands/weapons and view), are totally seperated from the 3p stuff, which is all the rest, including your own body model that you cant see. You never wondered why you couldnt see your feet ?So for this reason, if the animator makes the view moving in 1p, it'll surely not make the model of the soldier moving his head according to the 1p view. To make the head of the soldier moving you need to make 3p animations, where, as for the 1p, making the head of the soldier moving wont make the view of the player moving.

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PLEASE, GOD PLEASE, make the character look to his Weapon/Magazine while he is reloading.He looks like an Alien reloading looking forward.  :o

 

could you make the soldier's face look me aggressive or something. i mean he is in combat if he's reloading right?

 

You guys know it's still in progress, right?

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FanBF2   

Not at all. In BF2, the 1p stuff, which is everything that happens in front of your eyes (detailed hands/weapons and view), are totally seperated from the 3p stuff, which is all the rest, including your own body model that you cant see. You never wondered why you couldnt see your feet ?So for this reason, if the animator makes the view moving in 1p, it'll surely not make the model of the soldier moving his head according to the 1p view. To make the head of the soldier moving you need to make 3p animations, where, as for the 1p, making the head of the soldier moving wont make the view of the player moving.

 

I was talking about Squad. I know a bit how BF2 works.

 

Maybe there is a way to separate this. For example, BF3/BF4 has some 3p animations that doesn't reflect the 1p ones.

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Chuc   

I don't know how it works, but this is the case in Battlefield 2 and there are no problems. 

A lot if traditional FPSs make a separation to the geometry that gets rendered and the animations that get played between first and third person. While you do get more control and freedom with this method, it does double the amount of work you needed to do. The solution we have is closer to the ARMA system where there is almost no difference between first and third person views, and this allows for not only a reduced workload but also full body awareness and a few other tricks that only an integrated first and third person view system can provide. Of course you're limited to what sort of positions you can put the weapon in without forcibly tilting the head too much.

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Alonzo   

Great work Chuc.

 

Just one thing though. As others have mentioned in this thread, the magazine tap is a part of the reload process to ensure that the magazine is seated properly. However, as it is animated currently, the soldier slams it way too hard. It's only supposed to be a light, firm tap. If you slam it too hard, it can cause a malfunction with the weapon. Specifically, you can cause a round to come loose from the magazine into the chamber, and by releasing the bolt, the gun will try to lift another round into the chamber and cause a double feed. The slamming animation looks cool and dramatic, but it is not operationally accurate.

 

It's actually not good to tap the mag at all because it's one extra motion you have to perform, slowing you down. Imagine doing that for every reload, how inefficient it would be. Of course, there are many ways of doing things, but the best method is to beer-can grip the mag and just insert FIRMLY. That's it. Only TAP, RACK, BANG, as an immediate action drill if your weapon malfunctions. 

 

Watch what happens at 2:20. You can clearly see that a round is knocked loose by the guy's excessive tapping. 

 

 

Edit, 

 

There were also some concerns above about slapping the bolt release vs using the charging handle. Again, there are different ways of achieving the same outcome, but some ways are more efficient than others. Slapping the bolt is very cool, but inefficient. Why move your support hand away from your weapon and use that much force for no reason? It is best to just press the bolt release with your thumb. Plus hitting your weapon that hard will knock it away from your workspace and in turn off target downrange. As to racking the charging handle, some people would do that to ensure a consistency in training, but otherwise it's just faster to release the bolt if your thumb since your hand will be right next to the the control if you do the firm mag insert properly.

 

I don't know what kind of soldier the game is trying to portray because even in an Army, there are great operators and bad ones. If it were up to me, I'd like to see trained soldiers using the most efficient methods possible.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAXeCu-uWvY 

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FanBF2   

A lot if traditional FPSs make a separation to the geometry that gets rendered and the animations that get played between first and third person. While you do get more control and freedom with this method, it does double the amount of work you needed to do. The solution we have is closer to the ARMA system where there is almost no difference between first and third person views, and this allows for not only a reduced workload but also full body awareness and a few other tricks that only an integrated first and third person view system can provide. Of course you're limited to what sort of positions you can put the weapon in without forcibly tilting the head too much.

 

Okay. In short, there are pros and cons and you need to make the best choice between realism/authencity and what is it possible to do.

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KaB   

I bet it'd be possible to unlink only the rotations between the 3p head and 1p view (in Squad). Like that the soldier could surely look at his mag without making the players view shaking as hell.

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Chuc   

The system is still in development but I think we will be aiming for that kind of flexibility.

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k9jon   

I was taught to push the mag in and then tug downward to make sure it was seated. And then bolt release. If the mag wasn't seated then you tap it. Not slam it or you'll knock rounds out of the mag

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There are two different types of reloads: tactical and speed. Either reload depends on the situation, so it's on the developers whether to keep the situation high stress or low stress. Mag retention is utilized only during tactical which reloading is on your own time and not during a high stress situation like clearing a house or something crazy. Speed reload is as it sounds "speed." Your whole goal in life is to get another mag inserted as quickly as possible, f**k the other mag and let it drop because Charlie is coming around the corner. They should at least utilize either the "beer can" grip or "finger index" for mag retention, it bothers me... The whole point is to appear as if your mag never left the mag well.

 

https://youtu.be/MZyKDIQhvxY

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69105   

The only kind of reload that should matter is the one that looks the coolest in first person, and that reload nails it. Does he have to slap the magazine in? Probably not, but it adds to that sense of aggression that's so needed in a game like this

 

It is a videogame first

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The only kind of reload that should matter is the one that looks the coolest in first person, and that reload nails it. Does he have to slap the magazine in? Probably not, but it adds to that sense of aggression that's so needed in a game like this

It is a videogame first

Shhh.... He's on to us...

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Dale   

Just a question, but if this is a dry reload with an empty replaced by a full, will there be tactical reload animations? if so does that mean we can still have a round chambered while reloading?

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Just a question, but if this is a dry reload with an empty replaced by a full, will there be tactical reload animations? if so does that mean we can still have a round chambered while reloading?

 

Yes

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