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Niklasgunner

Picking up kits

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BansheeThreeOne you made me think about this, you're right. Medics wouldn't be able to do most of the time much more in a combat situation than provide grunts with the exact same CLS they would receive from them, only they carry medical supplies and some extra, whereas others don't.

 

 

Exactly, their medbag is pretty big and its packed with all kinds of medical shit and then each individual (including the Corpsmen/Medic) would carry an IFAK (Individual First Aid Kit). The idea being that if you got hit you would self-treat yourself using your IFAK until a Corpsmen/Medic got to you.

 

I'm pretty sure all of the U.S. military branches have similar training. In the Air Force there are different levels of SABC (Self-Aid Buddy Care). That and a fair number of units send their medics/corpsmen to other service schools for training as well.

 

Yeah they do, just didn't want to speak outside my pay grade in case I got something wrong lol B)   There was one school, I can't think of the name of it right now but it was basically CLS/SABC "practical application" on live animals. Never got a chance to go but a few of my buddies did and they said it was pretty twisted but good training hahaha.

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Exactly, a good point on all fours. If a squad itself cannot work together how does that squad co-operate with its team...

 

BansheeThreeOne you made me think about this, you're right. Medics wouldn't be able to do most of the time much more in a combat situation than provide grunts with the exact same CLS they would receive from them, only they carry medical supplies and some extra, whereas others don't.

 

If medics don't provide any more medical support to squadmates than the rest of the grunts, whats the point of having them in the squad ?

 

Think that first thing might solve itself though. If players just give up, what are their SLs doing? They should warn them and tell them they are wasting team tickets and he will kick them.

It should be part of what SLs says start of every round. Don't give up.

They'll learn eventually. :)

The reason people are just giving up is the same reason some squadmembers are lone wolfing, theres no SL kick function yet. People know theres no repercussions/punishment for not working as a squad & when told to do so they simply tell the SL to go piss up a rope & his hands are tied. So once kick ability is implemented SL will have the power to enforce squad cohesion & some of these issues will probably resolve themselves but I personally think the bleed-out timer should be increased & the ability to pick up your medics kit & revive him should be a thing but that all remains to be seen.

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Most of the time people give up even though they are well aware I am near and going to heal them, even if I'm asking "who needs a med" people I know went down don't say anything and just give up and respawn.

 

Kind of going off-topic for me to say this, but I think this happens mainly because people simply don't have microphones in Closed Alpha, and we also don't have mic-required servers to filter out those people. Also, the localVOIP radius is tiny which makes it even harder to get revives going, even if they do have mics.

 

 

I agree with Night that something is fundamentally off with the medic system at present, I'm looking forward to any solutions to some of the problems that keep getting touched on in this thread.

 

lol did you actually mean Niklasgunner? :S

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If medics don't provide any more medical support to squadmates than the rest of the grunts, whats the point of having them in the squad ?

 

 

Logically thinking, because they carry stuff needed to treat the grunt after the firefight and before they get medevaced. Also, they carry big backpack full of first aid equipment, pills, etc, whatever needed for any minor treatment such as illnesses and so on. You cannot have everyone do that, the same way as not everyone carries an AT-4.

 

Now, of course depends on the mission, but the medpack they have is still a lot bigger than a regular IFAK. They also carry a lot more bandages than anyone else.

 

Furthermore, and correct me if I'm wrong here, in real not every squad has a medic/corpsman? (In fact I want to know this, if someone would be so kind as to tell me.)

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I've read this thread and feel that if the medic is effectively the only guy that can't be revived that will surely equal a huge reluctance to take medic - if that when you are the sole medic, which happens often due to reluctance already existing, whenever you die you WILL NOT be revived and have to try to rejoin the squad from some possibly distant spawn point - the kit will not be a popular choice. 

 

But if the choice is made so be it - medic shortage incoming.

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45 minutes ago, ploddit said:

But if the choice is made so be it - medic shortage incoming.

 

Only if squad leaders don't know how to do their jobs and thus don't assign people to the medic role. ¬¬

Edited by Psyrus

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1 hour ago, ploddit said:

I've read this thread and feel that if the medic is effectively the only guy that can't be revived that will surely equal a huge reluctance to take medic - if that when you are the sole medic, which happens often due to reluctance already existing, whenever you die you WILL NOT be revived and have to try to rejoin the squad from some possibly distant spawn point - the kit will not be a popular choice. 

 

But if the choice is made so be it - medic shortage incoming.

I agree with everything.

 

I would also like to add that PR's formula for how medics work has been tried and tested for more than 10 years. And I would say it worked really well.

So I don't understand why they are going for a different (and arguably worse) approach.

You should still be able to pick up friendly kits, medic included.

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I don't think forcing people to take a role they don't want to on a video game that they've bought is a good option,  the ideal would be trying to make the kit les undesirable so enough people manifest in the average squad and average round that want (on a video game they've bought) and enjoy doing the role.

 

Well I've said what I wanted to say I'll leave it now.

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42 minutes ago, ploddit said:

I don't think forcing people to take a role they don't want to on a video game that they've bought is a good option,  the ideal would be trying to make the kit les undesirable so enough people manifest in the average squad and average round that want (on a video game they've bought) and enjoy doing the role.

 

Well I've said what I wanted to say I'll leave it now.

 

The kit limiting system does that on a round by round basis. The need for squad leaders is another thing that (less overtly) forces people to play roles they don't want to (the classic "reluctant SL"). When vehicles get introduced, I assume they will be limited as well, which means that not everyone who wants to play in a vehicle will be able to... isn't the whole game pretty much consistent with making the player play in the way the game wants them to play, rather than how they, as an individual, want to play?

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There's quite a bit of discussion still going on about this topic, as it's a pretty important one IMO.

 

2 hours ago, MirceaDogaru said:

I agree with everything.

 

I would also like to add that PR's formula for how medics work has been tried and tested for more than 10 years. And I would say it worked really well.

So I don't understand why they are going for a different (and arguably worse) approach.

You should still be able to pick up friendly kits, medic included.

 

Pretty much this.

 

Let's hope it'll be seen as 'worth the effort' by the Devs to implement something like this, someday.

 

This post gives me hope that a proper balance will be found for this, where you can for example, pick up part of a medic's kit to be able to revive people, but not heal them. Or pick up an AT launcher with only one rocket/missile, or a friendly's gun (I'm not sure about being able to pick up enemy weapons) with only one magazine.

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Couldn't a delay to pick up kits be a more appropriate thing to have? 

 

Like having to hold down G for five seconds or something. IMO the current system of someone dieing and then being unable to pick up their kit will lead to pretty bad problems sooner or later.

 

In PR a lot of people would usually take medic because if you die you have the kit and someone can revive you. Now, if I die I'm just completely screwed. 

 

This system leads to another huge issue: rallies.

 

I've been playing a bit lately and this is a glaring problem. SLs don't place FOBs, rather, they rely on rallies - ALL the time. Rallies everywhere but no FOB to spawn on.

 

 

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For the record, after reading my old comments from October, I've come around and think the decision was a good one. Squad wipes are more prevalent and squads with only one medic are at big disadvantage as they should be. The gameplay hasn't suffered in my opinion and it's still fun (unless you're the only medic :P ).

 

But like Ploddit mentioned, it has sort of put the medic kit alongside the squad leader kit as kits that aren't desirable for the average player. Good or bad thing? I'm not sure. In the long run, it will be bad if people plan on playing Squad for as long as they've played Project Reality. A shortage of competent SLs and medics isn't a good thing. Nevertheless, I'll be interested to see what the devs come up with as far as partial kit pick up is concerned.

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2 hours ago, DesmoLocke said:

For the record, after reading my old comments from October, I've come around and think the decision was a good one. Squad wipes are more prevalent and squads with only one medic are at big disadvantage as they should be. The gameplay hasn't suffered in my opinion and it's still fun (unless you're the only medic :P ).

 

But like Ploddit mentioned, it has sort of put the medic kit alongside the squad leader kit as kits that aren't desirable for the average player. Good or bad thing? I'm not sure. In the long run, it will be bad if people plan on playing Squad for as long as they've played Project Reality. a shortage of competent SLs and medics isn't a good thing. Nevertheless, I'll be interested to see what the devs come up with as far as partial kit pick up is concerned.

 

you just need to be a good enough leader to train medics up..   think of the limits as opportunities to expand your fan club Desmo!!!

 

 

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Oh I have some dedicated guys willing to play medic in my squads. Let's just say I give them lots of practice to get good. :)

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I don't think a shortage of medics will happen as often as a shortage of "good" SLs.

Speaking from experience, most medics I've come across have been competent, besides the occasional "I just want to heal myself" medic, or the new "I have no clue on what I'm doing" medic.

It just takes a couple explanations on how it works, a little practice, and people end up doing fine with that kit as far as I know. 

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I've always played the medic role in every game that I've played (that has the class). If I can get a kill or 2 per game, I'm happy. If I'm able to toss out a smoke for a friendly who is currently down, patch up their wound, get them back on their feet, and back into the fight. I'm even happier.

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I for one would like to see the kit pick-up make its way into Squad. Ignoring the medic for one moment, I would still like to scavenge bodies for ammo and supplies. If my squad wipes an enemy unit, I enjoy looting them for spoils. I'm not saying we should get to use their weapons, but certainly their ammo, grenades, patches, etc.

 

I also liked switching kits while in the field. As an SL in PR, if I had to leave the game, I could give my SL kit to the next in charge, wish him luck, and go tend to my RL duties.

 

That said, it's not a deal breaker for me, and we'll just have to see how it works itself out.

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i think it would be cool to search dead Teambuddys for unused bandages and ammo. that way the last survivor at least can fire and bandage himself.

 

that also would not be tooo op.

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29 minutes ago, Chris1980 said:

i think it would be cool to search dead Teambuddys for unused bandages and ammo. that way the last survivor at least can fire and bandage himself.

 

that also would not be tooo op.

Remember that we will most likely get a class carrying an ammo back sometime in the future, a body loot system would hurt that class in its role in a squad.

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5 minutes ago, koschilein said:

Remember that we will most likely get a class carrying an ammo back sometime in the future, a body loot system would hurt that class in its role in a squad.

 

Really? I never heard of that!

But, and I'm not criticizing here, this guys role will be solely to resupply teammates? It seems a little... trivial to me. I actually don't know what to think of this. He's just gonna be a walking ammo crate with a gun right?

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2 hours ago, molomo58 said:

 

Really? I never heard of that!

But, and I'm not criticizing here, this guys role will be solely to resupply teammates? It seems a little... trivial to me. I actually don't know what to think of this. He's just gonna be a walking ammo crate with a gun right?

maybe you should just combine that with the medic, so a pure ammo guy wouldnt be trivial and the medic more important.

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19 hours ago, molomo58 said:

 

Really? I never heard of that!

But, and I'm not criticizing here, this guys role will be solely to resupply teammates? It seems a little... trivial to me. I actually don't know what to think of this. He's just gonna be a walking ammo crate with a gun right?

That is how is in PR at the moment and I remember that a dev said that they plan on having such a class in Squad as well, please don´t ask me for a sausage because I don´t have it at the moment. (German pun intended)

 

EDT: Also remember that we will get a logistic system, so getting new magazines and field dresses and all will be a whole new part of the game.

 

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