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Kitless Loadout System

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I've been messing around with a Kitless Loadout System that incorporates ISKLR and RBSS to allow as much customization as possible. In addition to accomplishing its objective, it must also fulfill these criteria:

 

* The system should have no arbitrary equipment restrictions.

* The system should use a logic that is consistent and compatible with ISKLR and RBSS.

* The system should be easy to use and understand for the end user.

 

ISKLR*

The Integrated Squad and Kit Loadout and Restriction System uses a variety of templates to allow the game, servers, squad leaders, and players to define squads and kit loadouts. 

 

RBSS*

The Resource-Based Spawning System requires teams and squads to supply spawn points outside of the Main Base in order to maintain their functionality. Using the resource Materiel and its derivative, Ammunition, teams can build and supply structures, emplacements, and spawn points.

 

*Both currently undergoing updates, linked posts may contain contradicting information.

 

 

Kitless Loadout System

The objective of the system is to give teams and squads the ability to design and adapt their squad compositions and kit loadouts based on their tactical and strategic needs, with as little as possible being dictated by the game itself. If a squad requires 3 LMGs for their task, they should have the ability to deploy with 3 LMGs. If a squad requires Heavy AT, they should not be denied that capability because another player on the other side picked it up. If a squad wants more magazines for their Service Rifles instead of Grenades, they should get to make that decision.

 

Squad Resources

Using the Materiel resource from the RBSS, the squad is granted 200 Materiel per member, including the Squad Leader. So, a three-man squad composed of a Squad Leader and two Squad Members has 600 Materiel at its disposal. An eight-man squad has 1600 Materiel at its disposal. The Squad Leader controls the distribution of these resources as he sees fit. With ISKLR, a player is able to create a kit or squad template in-game or out of the game, and use it within the confines of the game, server, and squad leader restrictions.

 

Equipment Costs

The Common Loadout, including a Service Rifle + 2xMagazines, Knife, Shovel, and 1xField Dressing, costs 50 Materiel. This loadout is mandatory, and the lowest spawn cost possible. Parts can be overridden by specialist role kits.

 

50 Materiel:   2xMagazines, 6xGLGrenades, 6xGLSmoke Grenades, 2xGrenades, 2xSmoke Grenades, GTLD, 4x Explosives[1], 6x Medical Equipment[1], 2xField Dressing.

100 Materiel: Officer[2], Combat Engineer + 4xExplosives[3], 1xAmmunition Bag, Grappling Hook, 1xRound.

150 Materiel: Grenade Launcher + 6xGLGrenades + 6xGLSmoke Grenades, LMG + 2xMagazines[4], 1xLight Anti-Tank, Medic + 12xMedical Equipment[5], Pilot/Crewman[6].

200 Materiel: DMR + 2xMagazines[4].

250 Materiel: Anti-Air + 1xRound.

300 Materiel: Heavy Anti-Tank + 1xRound, Sniper Rifle + 2xMagazines[4].

 

[1]     Only available to Combat Engineer(Explosives) and Medic(Medical Equipment).

[2]     CO/SL only. Includes 2xMagazines, Sidearm + 2xMagazines, 2xGrenades, 2xColored Smoke Grenades, GTLD, 1xField Dressing at no cost.

[3]     Includes EOD Kit, Bolt Cutters at no cost.

[4]     Removes Service Rifle + 2xMagazines.

[5]     Includes CPR ability, 4xSmoke Grenades at no cost.

[6]     Picking Pilot/Crewman overrides any other equipment selection with a standard Pilot/Crewman loadout, removing the Service Rifle + 2xMagazines in favor of Sidearm + 2xMagazines/SMG + 2xMagazines, and adds 2xSmoke Grenades and 1xField Dressing at no cost.

 

Resource Consumption

As the KLS is integrated with the RBSS, the player consumes resources equal to the Materiel cost of their kit when spawning on certain spawn points.

 

Spawning at the Main Base consumes no resources.

Spawning at an FOB consumes Materiel from that FOB.

Spawning at an RP consumes Ammunition* from that RP.

 

*At a 1:1 conversion rate from Materiel to Ammunition.

 

Squad Composition and Kit Loadout Examples

To show how this works in practice, I will provide several examples.

 

Kit Examples

Basic Officer:    200-50-100         =+ 50 : Common, Officer.

Basic Rifleman:   200-50-50-50-50    =+  0 : Common, 2xMagazine, 2xGrenade, 2xSmoke Grenade.

Basic Medic:      200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, Medic + 4x Medical Equipment.

Heavy Anti-Tank:  200-50-50-300      =-200 : Common, Heavy Anti-Tank + 1xRound.

Scout:            200-50-50-100      =+  0 : Common, 2xMagazine, Grappling Hook.

 

Squad Examples

6-man Infantry Squad

Basic Officer:    200-50-100         =+ 50 : Common, Officer.

Basic Medic:      200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, Medic + 12x Medical Equipment.

Rifleman Ammo:    200-50-50-100      =+  0 : Common, 2xMagazines, 1xAmmunition Bag.

Rifleman:         200-50-50          =+100 : Common, 2xMagazines.

LMG:              200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, LMG + 2xMagazines.

Light Anti-Tank:  200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, 1xLight Anti-Tank.

 

A basic infantry squad that has both anti-armor and anti-infantry capability. Adequate for most tasks.

 

10-man Heavy Infantry Squad

Basic Officer:    200-50-100         =+ 50 : Common, Officer.

Basic Medic:      200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, Medic + 12x Medical Equipment.

Rifleman Ammo v2: 200-50-100         =+ 50 : Common, 1xAmmunition Bag.

LMG:              200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, LMG.

Rifleman:         200-50-50          =+100 : Common, 2xMagazines.

Basic Medic:      200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, Medic + 12x Medical Equipment.

Grenadier:        200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, Grenade Launcher + 6xGLGrenades + 6xGLSmoke Grenades.

Rifleman:         200-50-50          =+100 : Common, 2xMagazines.

Rifleman Ammo v2: 200-50-100         =+ 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, 1xAmmunition Bag.

Heavy Anti-Tank:  200-50-300         =-150 : Common, Heavy Anti-Tank.

 

This Heavy Infantry squad is capable of deploying considerable firepower with a minor loss of sustainability.

 

7-man Infantry Support with detachable Recon Element

Basic Officer:    200-50-100         =+ 50 : Common, Officer.

Basic Medic:      200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, Medic + 12x Medical Equipment.

Rifleman Ammo:    200-50-50-100      =+  0 : Common, 2xMagazines, 1xAmmunition Bag.

Grenadier:        200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, Grenade Launcher + 6xGLGrenades + 6xGLSmoke Grenades.

Grenadier:        200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, Grenade Launcher + 6xGLGrenades + 6xGLSmoke Grenades.

Rifleman Recon:   200-50-50-50       =+ 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, GTLD.

Field Medic:      200-50-50-50       =+ 50 : Common, 2xField Dressing, 2xField Dressing.

 

Provides light short-range "artillery" support with dual Grenadiers, in addition to considerable infantry capability and a detachable Recon Element composed of a Rifleman Recon and Field Medic.

 

4-man Reconnaissance Squad

Basic Officer:    200-50-100         =+ 50 : Common, Officer.

Basic Medic:      200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, Medic + 12x Medical Equipment.

Rifleman Recon:   200-50-50-50       =+ 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, GTLD.

Basic Medic:      200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, Medic + 12x Medical Equipment.

 

A Recon squad with adequate infantry capability. Able to cover considerable ground by separating.

 

4-man Defensive Squad

Ammo NCO:         200-50-50-100      =+  0 : Common, GTLD, 1xAmmunition Bag.

Corpsman:         200-50-150         =+  0 : Common, Medic + 12x Medical Equipment.

LMG:              200-50-150         =+  0 : Common, LMG + 2xMagazines.

LMG:              200-50-150         =+  0 : Common, LMG + 2xMagazines.

 

Relying on nearby Supply and Ammunition Dumps, this squad reduces their individual carrying capacity in favor of firepower from fixed defensive positions.

 

3-man Tank Hunters

NCO:              200-50-50          =+100 : Common, GTLD.

Field Medic:      200-50-50-50       =+ 50 : Common, 2xField Dressing, 2xField Dressing.

Heavy Anti-Tank:  200-50-300         =-150 : Common, Heavy Anti-Tank.

 

This squad sacrifices almost all of its infantry capability for the sole purpose of hunting down exposed armored vehicles. 

 

Besides specific Kit and Squad Loadout Templates like these, templates can also be created that allow some customization. For example:

 

6-man Infantry Squad

Officer:          200-50-100         =+ 50 : Common, Officer.

Medic:            200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, Medic + 12x Medical Equipment.

Slot 3:           200-50-(100)       =+ 50 : Common. This slot is given 100 Materiel to distribute.

Slot 4:           200-50-(150)-(50)  =+  0 : Common, (LMG, Grenade Launcher). This slot can choose between two support weapons and can distribute 50 Materiel.

Slot 5:           200-50-(150)       =+  0 : Common, This slot is given 150 Materiel to distribute.

Slot 6:           200-50-(150)       =+  0 : Common. This slot is given 150 Materiel to distribute.

 

Here the Squad Members may customize their loadouts, either by using one of their own Kit Loadout Templates, or by manually customizing their kit. Two slots have fixed kits, one has a customizable fixed kit, and three have customizable kits.

 

These Kit and Squad Loadout Templates can also be used by servers to disallow certain kit or squad compositions. For instance, if a server does not want the following squad composition to be used:

 

n00bs

Rifleman Common:  200-50             =+150 : Common.

1337 $|\|1P3r:    200-50-300         =-150 : Common, Sniper Rifle + 2xMagazines.

 

They can simply disallow that Squad composition with the Permission Pile, using ISKLR.

 

Kit and Squad Switching Mid-Game

Squad slots must be occupied in an order that ensures that the squad has positive Materiel(+0 or higher). Once a player occupies a slot, they expend their 200 Materiel until they leave the squad and die. They can still exchange their current loadout for one of equal value at any extraction point with the requisite Material, or switch with other players. Kits can be exchanged in their entirety between team members who are part of any squad.

 

6-man Infantry Squad

Basic Officer:    200-50-100         =+ 50 : Common, Officer.

Basic Medic:      200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, Medic + 12x Medical Equipment.

Rifleman Ammo:    200-50-50-100      =+  0 : Common, 2xMagazines, 1xAmmunition Bag.

Rifleman:         200-50-50          =+100 : Common, 2xMagazines.

LMG:              200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, LMG + 2xMagazines.

Light Anti-Tank:  200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, 1xLight Anti-Tank.

 

With this squad composition only the Basic Officer, Rifleman Ammo, and Rifleman slots can be taken first. Once the Basic Officer slot is occupied, the Basic Medic, LMG, and Light Anti-Tank slots are now also open because they require 250 Materiel and the Basic Officer loadout provides a 50 Materiel surplus. Once one of those slots are taken, that surplus is also expended and the two other kits are no longer open. If someone then occupies the Rifleman slot, a 100 Materiel surplus is created, and both of the remaining 250 Materiel slots can be occupied.

 

If a player leaves the squad and dies or leaves the server, for instance the Rifleman in the above 6-man Infantry Squad, the squad may have a Materiel deficit. 100 Materiel in this case. Any slot below the Rifleman slot that creates a deficit(LMG, and LAT in this case) then becomes unspawnable, until a surplus is achieved. This may happen if a new player with unspent Materiel joins the squad and occupies the Rifleman slot, or a Squad Member with a Materiel deficit switches to the Rifleman slot. For instance, if the LMG is killed, he can only respawn as the Rifleman.

 

To retain his squad position as LMG gunner, the player has a few options. He may re-select the LMG slot again to reserve it until another player with the requisite Materiel joins the squad, necessarily choosing the Rifleman slot as only it is available. If not, the LMG gunner may simply exchange kits with any player with the requisite Materiel joining the squad, and they may then swap slots.

 

Does the system accomplish its additional criteria?

No arbitrary equipment restrictions: Yes.

Consistent and compatible with RBSS and ISKLR: Yes.

Easy to use and understand: Maybe.

 

It sounds more complicated on paper than it is in reality, but there are still somewhat complicated issues. For instance, the 200 Materiel each player provides may be hard to follow. When a player occupies a Squad slot he grants his 200 Materiel to the squad, to be distributed by the Squad Leader. If he leaves the squad, he does not get that Materiel back until he dies, and any other squad he joins does not get those 200 Materiel until he dies. Another issue is the possibility of "suddenly math" while playing because someone left the squad. With ISKLR, this shouldn't be a huge problem, but might be off-putting for new players(Even though they are unlikely to be playing as SL). With the ability to mess around with this out of the game, it should still be easy to learn without being overwhelmed by in-game events, and pre-made templates will also help out.

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God please close this forum until release.

 

No. No. NO.

 

Grunts don't get to choose shit. Kit system of PR is fine.

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Grunts don't get to choose shit. Kit system of PR is fine.

 

Whether or not "grunts" get to decide their loadout is entirely dependent on the wishes of the Squad Leader(And server restrictions) with this system. In PR you could only state what you wanted Squad Members to choose, but you couldn't enforce it in any other way than to kick those who disobeyed.

 

Try calming down a little.

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God please close this forum until release.

 

No. No. NO.

Constructive criticism 101.

 

 

Those magazine counts are a liittle low. Personally I'm terrible at maths, this would benefit from being graphically represented in-game so there's no confusion.

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Those magazine counts are a liittle low. Personally I'm terrible at maths, this would benefit from being graphically represented in-game so there's no confusion.

 

4 magazines is more than enough for the average lifespan of a player in PR, and it incentivizes good logistical support. Squads operating behind enemy lines need to have a self-sufficient loadout, defensive squads can depend on supply dumps, mechanized squads can carry supplies on vehicles, etc. What each individual player carries isn't as important as what the squad has access to through planning and teamwork. If the Squad Leader wants more magazines for his squad, he can assign that.

 

A rifleman could have:

 

200-50-50-50-50  =+0 : Common, 2xMagazines, 2xMagazines, 2xGrenades

 

for a total of 6xMagazines/Capacity.

 

Using PR as an example, you barely ever have any supply issues for things other than HAT kits and the occasional Medic Epipen resupply. This often leads to squads not caring about supply at all, and as a consequence supply issues hit hard when they do hit. Now, you don't want to take it too far, either. If it turns into "Logistics-The Game", it's gone too far in the other direction. However, based on my many years of playing PR, I believe that the cost and amount of magazines I've listed is pretty much perfect. Just one more magazine bundled with the Common loadout, and Squad Leaders can sacrifice magazines on their Squad Members for more firepower. Any less, and Squad Leaders have far less build versatility. With the current cost and amount, the Squad Leader will have to make decisions that involve sacrifice.

 

And yeah, it would be visually represented in-game. I'll see if I can make a mockup tomorrow or something.

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Not true.

Ive ran out of ammo in pr (without spamming rounds) plenty of times...

Depends how much you die really.

He did say average lifespan on which I agree, usually you don't use more than 2-3 mags before you die. Still, it's a matter of having it and not needing it rather than needing it and not having it. I suppose that's the point but I still don't like the idea of sacrificing ammo for other things you'd realistically be carrying in addition anyway.

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I understand where you're coming from OP but it's overtly complicated. One of the things I dislike about Insurgency is the point system because it restricts gameplay into narrow channels. I do not like inventory management in FPS games, because you spend more time deciding what you're going to use instead of using it.

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Not true.

Ive ran out of ammo in pr (without spamming rounds) plenty of times...

Depends how much you die really.

"Less is more" and if the there is nicely balanced weight vs. speed/stamina compensation it even gives another reason to not carry too much stuff around. Pluss if you can (which seems that it will be a feature .. I did read dev reply here forums somewhere) pickup enemy gun and ammo you have plenty of resuply, just pickup that beaten up AK/jammed M16.

 

On the otherhand I can see that in defensive situation in ie. AAS mode, there will be lots of bullet spam from defenders for a reason, but if the system have ammogrates some sort to be driven to bases/POIs from the main deploy area, that will solve that problem in realistic and immersive way that promotes the use your head not forefinger all the time.

 

Plus you have pistol and knife.

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To me it sounds like you are effectively trying to take Insurgency's system which worked for a small shoebox game like Insurgency but on large combined arms gameplay would just cause the gameplay to slow down. PR was great as you chose a pre-defined class and there it was done and you were straight into gameplay, micromanaging the gear of a unit would just detract away from the experience especially on that level. For the actual game mode of Insurgency in Squad I think this system would work well for the insurgents and just link it with how many cache's are destroyed.

Besides that, real world soldiers don't have these restrictions (unless in very certain circumstances which if is always in Squad it would seem stupid) so neither should we.

Also it may work with ISKLR and RBSS but those systems might not even be put in game and if these are all meant to be combined together, list them all under a single page about having an overhaul change in ideas. I support the ISKLR as I also had an identical idea but the gear management is just another way to lead to problems and slowdowns in peoples gameplay.

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If a squad requires Heavy AT, they should not be denied that capability because another player on the other side picked it up.

 

Actually yes, it should be denied that capability.

 

We're still far from having Vehicle warfare in Squad so lets imagine a common situation in BF2:PR

 

Enemy tank goes to West Flank;

 

West Flank infantry gets a HAT, which in return scares the tank to the East Flank.

 

Now the tank rapes the entire infantry on that flank, 'cause the HAT is on the other side of the map.

 

Is in this moment that in BF2:PR everyone calls the HAT a noob, 'cause he is in the wrong side of the map, even thou he got the HAT due to armor presence but the truth is this is a fair game for the enemy armor, they were smart enough to avoid the AT.

 

With this suggestion you're saying everyone can get a HAT, and no matter how smart the enemy is, Teamplay doesnt matter 'cause anyone can get what it wants.

 

The only improvement that kits need from PR to Squad is the ability to carry less mags in order to run longer and the ability to give individual mags.

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That's got nothing to do with teamwork, UTurista. It doesn't even involve other team members, it's just some guys in a tank driving somewhere, then driving somewhere else. All based on information gathered through clairvoyant means. "I can sense it. The Gods of the Battlefield have determined that there can only be one HAT kit active at a time for each team. My spirit traveler tells me this". That's just awful gameplay.

 

Actual teamwork would be if the tank doesn't expose itself to unknown hostile contacts, and relies on infantry support and recon information to determine the threat level of the unknown contact, before engaging. That would involve actual teamwork, like communication, coordination, and planning.

 

micromanaging the gear of a unit would just detract away from the experience especially on that level.

 

 

That's not how the system works. Micromanagement of gear would not be an issue. There is only one situation in which any management would be required: If a Squad Leader decides to create an entirely new Squad template on the fly in-game. Even that would only take a minute. Compared to PR, where you have to verbally assign kits, constantly check if you have all the kits needed as players die, leave, and join the squad, spend time checking if restricted kits that you need are available, and so on, the micromanagement with this system and ISKLR would be drastically reduced.

 

Squad Members would join squads and choose between whatever kits the Squad Leader allows them. If any customization was allowed by the SL, then the player would select what he wanted and the kit loadout would remain as defined until the player or SL altered it. It's not like it would reset every time the player died. It would take a novice player no more time to set up a customizable kit than it would for a player to click through all the squad kits in PR before spawning. 20-30 seconds. And he wouldn't be confused by some kits that can't be selected for some unknown reason, or this kit that the SL keeps talking about that he should pick up at a ammo box or whatever.

 

Squad Leaders would have a multitude of Squad and Kit templates to pick from, some with pre-defined kits for the entire squad, some with varying degrees of customization. Pre-made kit and squad templates would come with the game, and with players being able to design their own templates outside of the game, they would quickly become acquainted with the system. Squad Members could pick from their pool of kit templates that are compatible with the loadout of the squad they've joined.

 

I think people who feel this system is complicated forget how extremely byzantine and convoluted PR and its kit system is.

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Man, your ideas are like theoretical physics in comparison to PR's kit system. Certainly not saying PR's kit system is perfect, nor that we should settle for it in light of something better, but you sure spend a lot of effort coming up with what ultimately ends up being quite complicated. The real problem with PR's kit system would be its restrictive nature, not so much it's complexity. I don't have anything against you trying to come up with something new, but I find it strange you can really say that your system as a whole isn't pretty complex...

It also kind of overlooks the fact that individual equipment and squad composition are mostly set lists IRL, instead opting to kind of turn every squad and individual into special snowflakes.

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In real life, any military unit outfits itself with what it requires to accomplish its objectives, provided it is able to procure it.

 

There is a difference between front-end and back-end. There is a difference between using a computer and knowing how a computer works. The vast majority of the text in my post deals with implementation, and is not something the end users will ever interact with. 

 

This is literally all you have to do as a Squad Leader: Either solve an equation composed of addition and subtraction that requires you to end with a surplus of at least +0, or load a pre-made squad loadout that can be further customized on the fly if necessary.

This is literally all you have to do as a Squad Member: Pick a fixed kit set by the SL, or create or load a pre-made kit that fits the materiel or equipment criteria given by the SL.

 

That is it. That's a hell of a lot simpler than remembering squad kit cooldowns, team kit cooldowns, if someone in your squad had a kit and left, blocking others from picking that kit, and all kinds of gymnastics that exist solely to avoid exploitation of the kit restriction system.

 

Try it out yourself. You get 200 Materiel per squad member, each player spawns with the Common equipment at the default spawn cost of 50 Materiel, and you as the Squad Leader get to distribute the remaining 150 Materiel per squad member between the squad. Make some squad and kit templates like the ones I've posted above.

 

The Common Loadout, including a Service Rifle + 2xMagazines, Knife, Shovel, and 1xField Dressing, costs 50 Materiel. This loadout is mandatory, and the lowest spawn cost possible. Parts can be overridden by specialist role kits.

 

 

50 Materiel:   2xMagazines, 6xGLGrenades, 6xGLSmoke Grenades, 2xGrenades, 2xSmoke Grenades, GTLD, 4x Explosives[1], 6x Medical Equipment[1], 2xField Dressing.

100 Materiel:  Officer[2], Combat Engineer + 4xExplosives[3], 1xAmmunition Bag, Grappling Hook, 1xRound.

150 Materiel:  Grenade Launcher + 6xGLGrenades + 6xGLSmoke Grenades, LMG + 2xMagazines[4], 1xLight Anti-Tank, Medic + 12xMedical Equipment[5], Pilot/Crewman[6].

200 Materiel:  DMR + 2xMagazines[4].

250 Materiel:  Anti-Air + 1xRound.

300 Materiel:  Heavy Anti-Tank + 1xRound, Sniper Rifle + 2xMagazines[4].

 

[1]     Only available to Combat Engineer(Explosives) and Medic(Medical Equipment).

[2]     CO/SL only. Includes 2xMagazines, Sidearm + 2xMagazines, 2xGrenades, 2xColored Smoke Grenades, GTLD, 1xField Dressing at no cost.

[3]     Includes EOD Kit, Bolt Cutters at no cost.

[4]     Removes Service Rifle + 2xMagazines.

[5]     Includes CPR ability, 4xSmoke Grenades at no cost.

[6]     Picking Pilot/Crewman overrides any other equipment selection with a standard Pilot/Crewman loadout, removing the Service Rifle + 2xMagazines in favor of Sidearm + 2xMagazines/SMG + 2xMagazines, and adds 2xSmoke Grenades and 1xField Dressing at no cost.

 

 

6-man Infantry Squad

Basic Officer:    200-50-100         =+ 50 : Common, Officer.

Basic Medic:      200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, Medic + 12x Medical Equipment.

Rifleman Ammo:    200-50-50-100      =+  0 : Common, 2xMagazines, 1xAmmunition Bag.

Rifleman:         200-50-50          =+100 : Common, 2xMagazines.

LMG:              200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, LMG + 2xMagazines.

Light Anti-Tank:  200-50-50-150      =- 50 : Common, 2xMagazines, 1xLight Anti-Tank.

 

 

Tell me how difficult that is for you.

 

And in the game, all this information would be provided visually, and you wouldn't even have to do the math yourself.

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My problem is the inventory management aspect of it all. Don't get me wrong it's a brilliant system but it is way too complicated.

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Finally gotten around to reading it all, I'm impressed by the technicalities and the possibilities, but it will need to be simplified a notch.

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My problem is the inventory management aspect of it all. Don't get me wrong it's a brilliant system but it is way too complicated.

 

Could you give me an example of this inventory management aspect?

 

Edit: I'm not adding kittens, Obaama.

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I like the fact that this would allow the possibility of differently orientated teams such as a Weapons team (could be composed of machines guns, DMRs, snipers etc) that the SL could manage but it l have to agree with some of the others.

 

It would be far too complicated for the general player to get a hold of it. It would definitely cause too much drama and in-fighting with random players who want specific kit and the SL won't allow them to have it. It would be a great system for more private games with people you know and trust but for the general public it would be a little too much to handle. I'm not a fan of using any point related system to decide what kit I get in game, I'd rather have my full kit assignment by the game in terms of the current kits from PR or have the ability to create a realistic loadout for myself however, that's probably just my ARMA MilSim kicking in.

 

I also have no idea on the amount of players that will make up a squad or whether a squad will be made up of multiple fire teams and if a certain amount of squads can create a platoon. You could go with the standard US composition but if there's other factions such as the British Army / Royal Marines etc that use a different system (sections, different amount of people etc) then it's going to look a little awkward. Of course, this is a game and it doesn't need to represent reality in every aspect so you could just disregard that.

 

As for the system, I only say it would be complicated in terms of gameplay and interaction between players. The kits in BF2/PR may be restrictive but I'd rather have that than someone give me an utter failure of a kit or have to beg for a different role.

 

Would there also be physical links to stamina / weight of the kit from the system? If so you would most likely have to compensate / take in the fact that there's different caliber weapons. For example someone with an AK, any 7.62 variant, wouldn't be carrying the typical 6-8 magazines as someone with an M4 variant that uses 5.56. So would the Materiel values have to be different per caliber or am I thinking too deep there?

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It would be far too complicated for the general player to get a hold of it. It would definitely cause too much drama and in-fighting with random players who want specific kit and the SL won't allow them to have it.

How is this any different from PR currently? The only difference here is there'd be a hard, actual restriction rather than a verbal one.

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How is this any different from PR currently? The only difference here is there'd be a hard, actual restriction rather than a verbal one.

People have a hard time being told what they can and cannot do, especially from randoms on the internet. A game restriction doesn't leave room for arguments. Obviously I'm not saying this would be the case with every player.

Since it's the early stages of development I'm only trying to look at all possibilities. It's worthwhile trying to poke at all ideas just to see if anything can spring from them. :P

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People dont run out of ammo in PR as often in RL because they dont (and wrongly so) value high-volume, suppressive fire. Reducing the amount of ammo carried below RL standards compromises the effectiveness of using RL tactics, as players will be unrealistically conservative with their ammunition.

 

I would also argue that, while the OP idea asserts some valuable ideas, the overarching loadout system seems like it could be too complex for SQUAD predefined gameplay.

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People dont run out of ammo in PR as often in RL because they dont (and wrongly so) value high-volume, suppressive fire. 

It's not valued because it has no value in PR, it's not as effective a tactic as it should be.

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