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Types of Squads?

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So I stumbled onto a guide that has a list of squads that people play. Is there a more comprehensive list or could you just name some more that isn't on this list? 

 

It also seems some squads don't need to be full. Logi support, or chopper transport for example.

 

Grunt squad - A general squad

 

Scout squad - Scouts out possible enemy positions

 

Vanguard - "Tip of the Spear" a squad that puts the most pressure on the enemy objective

 

Logi Support - Makes sure FOBS are supplied.

 

Commanding squad - Defends our most forward flag and build structures, while commanding other squads.

 

Quick Reaction force - Jumps to squads that are under fire and supports them until threat is neutralized and then goes onto the next battle.

 

Squads I thought of while writing this

 

FOB Seekers - Behind enemy lines disrupting enemy FOBs. Probably could be done as a Quick Reaction Force squad

 

Chopper support - Works with other squads to move them around the battlefield swiftly. Also transports supplies

 

I think a comprehensive list would help newer players or maybe even experience players takes steps to becoming a SL or just understanding what's going on within the squad you joined.

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Squads switch roles a lot. I saw squad named "tank" running logi, "logi" squad capping points, "heli" squad shooting mortars - all in one battle.

 

The idea of types of squad will work, if it will be not only title, but a gameplay boost that force squad members to stick to squad role:

  • AT squad have HAT role exclusively and +1 LAT kit, riflemen carry AT round in addition to ammo bag, 7 members limit.
  • MG squad can deploy Heavy MG (team members carry parts: tripod/MG/ammo), +2 LMG kits, riflemen carry MG ammo box in addition to ammo bag, 7 members limit.
  • Recon squad have sniper kit, riflemen carry anti-personnel mine in addition to ammo bag, 4 members limit.
  • Crew squad have crew kits and can claim armoured vehicles, 4 member limit.
  • Engineer squad have saper kit, all members sprades +50% speed, riflemen carry "explosives" in addition to ammo bag, 5 member limit.
  • Heli squad have pilot kit, 3 members limit.
  • Medical squad have 4 med kits, all members carry adrenalin/painkiller shots, that revive instantly. (Other squads limited to 1 med kit; incapacitated need to be patched and healed to revive - like in old good times), 7 members limit.
  • Supply squad have no rifles, but can carry stuff from logi to FOB by foot :)
  • etc...

What do you think?

 

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not enough players in the server to achieve these level of specialization when every squad need to perform some of the specialise task at some point. This level of specialisation can only be achieved with at least 200 vs 200 server, which is fantasy with current technology. 

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I don't like so many specialized squads because Squad leaders are already in short supply. Having a capable SL go Logie or supply squad and then have 8 unassigned player who dont have an infantry squad to join is going to be frustrating. 

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Infantry squad
Vic squad (including logi and helo)
Mech squad (Inf + offensive vic)
Mortar squad
 

Everything else is a LARP and uncessesary complication. You can run 2-4 man squads if you want to flank/kill fobs, but it's just running another infatry squad.

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10 hours ago, RB79BALL said:

not enough players in the server to achieve these level of specialization when every squad need to perform some of the specialise task at some point. This level of specialisation can only be achieved with at least 200 vs 200 server, which is fantasy with current technology. 

You need much more "actors" (players + bots) before pushing tanks in, but there they are: 2 per side in one battle...

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3 hours ago, Zerzeron said:

You need much more "actors" (players + bots) before pushing tanks in, but there they are: 2 per side in one battle...

Based on what metric? Arguably, they need to re-adjust overall vehicle numbers as there are way too many offensive vics on most maps nowadays. But I fail to see where your argument is coming from.

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2 hours ago, Ufonius said:

Based on what metric? Arguably, they need to re-adjust overall vehicle numbers as there are way too many offensive vics on most maps nowadays. But I fail to see where your argument is coming from.

I think he said exactly what you are saying…. 

 

We need to wait for him to clarify. But I think he means that the proportion of tanks is too big in this scale of combat. Which… may be argued as well. But I dont care too much...I think squad has bigger problems.

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On 11.04.2020 at 6:42 PM, Ufonius said:

Based on what metric? Arguably, they need to re-adjust overall vehicle numbers as there are way too many offensive vics on most maps nowadays. But I fail to see where your argument is coming from.

Vehicles cost and performance. Good tank crew can take out everything on bigger maps, but it only cost same amount of tickets like APCs before (and vehicles could not destroy defences at that time). On maps without tanks APC being used inappropriately because it's too cheap to care; on bigger maps team easily run out of lighter supply/infantry carriers because of amount of heavier vehicles.

  • If APCs would cost 30pts as before for balanced gameplay on smaller maps, IFVs and tanks should cost 60-120pts. And it's too much to loose at once (random idiot rushed forward) in 40vs40 game.
  • If maps with tank will have different costs based on vehicleVSvehicle combat, its need more vehicles because infantry will look useless. (And it should be separate game/gamemod).

P.S. Fanatics can play some tank based games.

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APCs used to cost this much back in the day because they were arguably harder to take out than they are now:

No way to rearm outside of ammo crates (Pre V11)

No ammo bags on riflemen

No way to disable the vehicle (Pre V11). V12 introduced turret damage, V13 introduced track damage, can't find when they introduced engine damage.

No zeroing on LATs/HATs (can't remember which release)

No input lag on turret movement which allowed you to be extremely accurate at any range

SPG-9 techie used to not have a scope and was therefore a total joke to shoot

INS/MIL didn't have decent AT kits  compared to what they have now

No TOW emplacements/TOW vics

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On 20.04.2020 at 6:35 PM, Ufonius said:

APCs used to cost this much back in the day because they were arguably harder to take out than they are now:

You need more hits now and have a lot of AT bugs, like BRDM eating HATs or MRAP ignoring guided missiles (easiest to notice since low on HP).

On 20.04.2020 at 6:35 PM, Ufonius said:

No way to rearm outside of ammo crates (Pre V11)

No ammo bags on riflemen

Simply die. Lots of "kill me plz" came from ATs that time.

On 20.04.2020 at 6:35 PM, Ufonius said:

No way to disable the vehicle (Pre V11). V12 introduced turret damage, V13 introduced track damage, can't find when they introduced engine damage.

2 ATs simultaneously was enough to insta-kill most of old vehicles.

On 20.04.2020 at 6:35 PM, Ufonius said:

SPG-9 techie used to not have a scope and was therefore a total joke to shoot

It still a joke, since reentering one (after healing or sit changing) cause prolonged reloading. And scope made it worse for close range hit&run.

On 20.04.2020 at 6:35 PM, Ufonius said:

INS/MIL didn't have decent AT kits  compared to what they have now

? They was better at AT kits vs RU/US.

On 20.04.2020 at 6:35 PM, Ufonius said:

No TOW emplacements/TOW vics

AT guided missile emplacements are 100% depended on map design, and there is no need to spawn such vehicles on tankless map.

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Posted (edited)

taking in consideration that i just registered and i'm a newbie - i found lots of helpful information for my healthy recipes project.

i wanted to know if i can ask you some newbie type of questions in case you don't mind? thanks...

Edited by Muress
grammar

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You need more hits now and have a lot of AT bugs, like BRDM eating HATs or MRAP ignoring guided missiles (easiest to notice since low on HP).

Irrelevant argument since that was happening back in the "old" days. That being said, haven't seen it happen in ages.

Quote

Simply die. Lots of "kill me plz" came from ATs that time.

Okay so you agree that AT mobility was severely limited to either a) spawning on HABs b) spawning on rallies c) rearming on habs to get their rockets back? Which meant dedicated AT squads were not able to roam around as freely as they can do now.

Quote

2 ATs simultaneously was enough to insta-kill most of old vehicles.

You needed 3 LATs to kill BTR and 4 LATs to kill a stryker. I don't remember how much HATs used to do, but I assume it's about 2x more damage than lats? This was pre V11 when Stryker and 30mm BTR used to cost 25+ tickets (V9.4). V11.1 reduced vic costs to 20 for 30mm BTR and 15 for Stryker.

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AT guided missile emplacements are 100% depended on map design, and there is no need to spawn such vehicles on tankless map.

Okay, but you completely missed my point and failed to refute my argument.

 

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? They was better at AT kits vs RU/US.

They did not have RPG-29 which is one of the best HAT loadouts in game. Was added in V12 with the tank update I believe.

 

Quote

It still a joke, since reentering one (after healing or sit changing) cause prolonged reloading. And scope made it worse for close range hit&run.

They made it much harder to solo, but you can still do wonders with a 2 man crew. Close range? Sounds like a personal issue.

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On 23.04.2020 at 3:56 AM, Ufonius said:

Irrelevant argument since that was happening back in the "old" days. That being said, haven't seen it happen in ages.

O_o Vehicles before were a big hitboxes: no angle of impact, no modules to damage separately (Hitting barrel end or tire => full damage to hull).

On 23.04.2020 at 3:56 AM, Ufonius said:

Okay so you agree that AT mobility was severely limited to either a) spawning on HABs b) spawning on rallies c) rearming on habs to get their rockets back? Which meant dedicated AT squads were not able to roam around as freely as they can do now.

RLY? You can't see it? (maybe biased by "need ammo", which wasn't a point before "no resupply on spawn" policy)

Dedicated AT squads played from rally (as it had to be renewed constantly - it moved with squad), there was no need in FOB - full freedom of movement. In contrast now you need ammo carrier (rifleman or vehicle), if you move away from ammo crate! You bound to resupply line unlike before.

"60 seconds to reload" as players joked in good old times. Now, when squad behind enemy lines, you not only need to die, if squad run out of ammo, but respawn near supplies, die again and spawn on rally.

On 23.04.2020 at 3:56 AM, Ufonius said:

You needed 3 LATs to kill BTR and 4 LATs to kill a stryker. I don't remember how much HATs used to do, but I assume it's about 2x more damage than lats?

LAT+HAT = 100% kill, wherever they hit target. AT squad killed APCs in seconds.

On 23.04.2020 at 3:56 AM, Ufonius said:

Okay, but you completely missed my point and failed to refute my argument.

So you think, you can use placeable guided missile launchers as effective AT defensives at not-designed-for-tanks maps? Once revealed - it's busted (exception for using LoD cheats). Scoring more than 2 vehicle kills from it meant that your opponents are of inadequate skill. Costs and efforts worth it, only if you place a trap for tank or IFV.

On 23.04.2020 at 3:56 AM, Ufonius said:

They did not have RPG-29 which is one of the best HAT loadouts in game. Was added in V12 with the tank update I believe.

RPG-7 tandem was best option in game (before debuff).

On 23.04.2020 at 3:56 AM, Ufonius said:

They made it much harder to solo, but you can still do wonders with a 2 man crew. Close range? Sounds like a personal issue.

Solo or not, once current gunner suppressed - no recover without retreating.

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Posted (edited)

Bush Wankers - my squad that's sitting behind a bush just 300m outside enemy main with CE mines, LAT, HAT...etc.

On 4/22/2020 at 5:56 PM, Ufonius said:

You needed 3 LATs to kill BTR and 4 LATs to kill a stryker. I don't remember how much HATs used to do, but I assume it's about 2x more damage than lats? This was pre V11 when Stryker and 30mm BTR used to cost 25+ tickets (V9.4). V11.1 reduced vic costs to 20 for 30mm BTR and 15 for Stryker.

 

Actually 3 LATs for BTR only applies for AT-4.  You need ~5 standard LAT to kill Stryker.

On 4/26/2020 at 7:27 AM, Zerzeron said:

RPG-7 tandem was best option in game (before debuff).

I don't recall tandem RPG ever having good velocity.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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Posted (edited)
On 4/22/2020 at 5:56 PM, Ufonius said:

Irrelevant argument since that was happening back in the "old" days. That being said, haven't seen it happen in ages.

BRDM eating HAT happened to me in B18.

Hit the top of it too, not the wheels.

On 4/20/2020 at 8:35 AM, Ufonius said:

APCs used to cost this much back in the day because they were arguably harder to take out than they are now:

No way to rearm outside of ammo crates (Pre V11)

No ammo bags on riflemen

No way to disable the vehicle (Pre V11). V12 introduced turret damage, V13 introduced track damage, can't find when they introduced engine damage.

No zeroing on LATs/HATs (can't remember which release)

No input lag on turret movement which allowed you to be extremely accurate at any range

SPG-9 techie used to not have a scope and was therefore a total joke to shoot

INS/MIL didn't have decent AT kits  compared to what they have now

No TOW emplacements/TOW vics

Actually APCs used to be much easier to take out as it's crippled by 1 single LAT to the rear.

They may take slightly less hits from the front, but most of the shots should be taken from side/rear in a real game anyway; and those are straight up buffed(especially since anything that doesn't have tank gun/atgm now do not have ammorack component).

BTR-82A actually got forced to shoot in 5-round-bursts for some time.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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Posted (edited)

Squad leaders are incompetent today.
DOesn't matter what they call themselves, 99% of the time they're useless, or making an easy game harder.

Edited by Atlan

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On 03/05/2020 at 9:32 AM, EcchiRevenge said:

Actually APCs used to be much easier to take out as it's crippled by 1 single LAT to the rear.

Which version are you talking about?
 

Quote

<...>but most of the shots should be taken from side/rear in a real game anyway<...>

It doesn't matter where you shoot a vehicle as long as long as it achieves what you're trying to do - kill or disable. NATO APCs and all IFVs have engine blocks at the front which is a relatively easy target to hit. Hell, you can even track vics from the front if you have practice. So no, you don't stricly need to take flanking shots to take down a vic.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Ufonius said:

Which version are you talking about?
 

It doesn't matter where you shoot a vehicle as long as long as it achieves what you're trying to do - kill or disable. NATO APCs and all IFVs have engine blocks at the front which is a relatively easy target to hit. Hell, you can even track vics from the front if you have practice. So no, you don't stricly need to take flanking shots to take down a vic.

Pre-V11/12 when LAT did like 90%+ damage on a rear shot to BTR...etc.  You were not playing back then?

It does because of ammorack/engine location. 
Behind the engine is penetration blocker(so you can't penetrate rear-mounted engine from front and vice versa; nor can you hit the ammorack if engine is in the way).
Hence side shot for ammorack(unless, obviously, the vehicle doesn't have ammorack hitbox).

Plus the fact that vehicles generally have more eyes looking in front than rear. (driver looks forward/slightly to the side by default)

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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8 hours ago, EcchiRevenge said:

Pre-V11/12 when LAT did like 90%+ damage on a rear shot to BTR...etc.  You were not playing back then?

So you are talking about V10/V9 days then? Now, are you sure your claim is correct for those versions? And if so, I need proof of localised vehicle damage existing in V10 and/or V9.

 

Quote

Hence side shot for ammorack(unless, obviously, the vehicle doesn't have ammorack hitbox).

You people need to stop LARP'ing about ammoracks. The main objective of LATs (and HATs) is mobility hits on vics. Once that is achieved, then you can faff around and try to hit the ammorack and whatnot. Even then, you are better off spamming LAT shots at a disabled target from the front if you have constant supply of ammo/revives rather than going on a flanking trip and dying to infantry.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ufonius said:

So you are talking about V10/V9 days then? Now, are you sure your claim is correct for those versions? And if so, I need proof of localised vehicle damage existing in V10 and/or V9.

 

You people need to stop LARP'ing about ammoracks. The main objective of LATs (and HATs) is mobility hits on vics. Once that is achieved, then you can faff around and try to hit the ammorack and whatnot. Even then, you are better off spamming LAT shots at a disabled target from the front if you have constant supply of ammo/revives rather than going on a flanking trip and dying to infantry.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1389758646&searchtext=anti+tank+guide 



It is actually surprising close to today.  So there's no way you can pretend it didn't happen.

No, you people need to git gud.  You're the one LARPing about tracks.
Screw your mobility kills, ammorack detonates in 2-3 good hits (on ifvs) depending on rocket.

See not everyone is going to have all the ammo in the world 100% of time.  That's why you don't LARP for tracks(not to mention there are wheeled vehicles...).

It's hilarious how you had to ignore the fact that driver looks forward of vehicle to try to come up with a reply.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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How does this link answer my question exactly?

 

Quote

Only viable on Bradley because it's the size of a WTC and so is its ammorack. Tanks are out of the quetion for LATs. BMP2 (and BMP1 I assume) cannot be consistently ammoracked with a LAW.
 

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Not everyone is going to be in a position to flank 100% of the time, so what point are you trying to make here? Worst case scenario (2 vs 6 shots) you have to spend extra 160 ammo points setting a Bradley on fire. 160 is not a lot of ammo points. Even with limited ammo, your main objective as an AT is to disable the vehicle. If you can't finish it off, you have other assets to do it for you.
 

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Bit of a moot point, hence it was being ignored. What will the driver do exactly? Kill me with his death stare? You think I will be just running and jumping in front of the vehicle or something? Once I fire my shot and disable the vic I pack my shit and leave - my job there is done.

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Posted (edited)

It proves there's a time when rear hit kills(or at least close enough) BTR in 1, since somehow you were clearly having trouble remembering that time.

 

BMP-1 and 2 have weird ammorack location that isn't directly under the turret, see vehicle practice mod for detail.

 

 

It just means you're likely going to die trying to shoot the IFV...etc. from front.  160 isn't a lot of ammo points but it's a lot of reloads. That's 40s spent on reload alone(assuming you're already loaded and fire at beginning of engagement).  You're also assuming everyone has 2 HEAT rockets...(or, even worse, for rando teammate's RPG-26 to hit instead of miss badly)  Let's pretend Bradley doesn't kill you at first 4 attempts and you hit all shots...that's stretching your luck if you don't at least try to shoot from flank once. 

 

Disabling the tracks do not disable the guns. 

 

Driver tells gunner where you are, and you die.  That's why you'll never be good enough - you think letting enemy repair/drive back to main is job well done.

Actually I expected you to be better and actually know that sometimes jumping in front of enemy vehicle, long-range teabagging him to get him to shoot you, is much faster than walking back to nearest HAB to rearm.
"but muh tickets" - I don't care, Bradley is worth way more than 1-2 tickets.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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On 11/05/2020 at 1:23 PM, EcchiRevenge said:

It is actually surprising close to today.  So there's no way you can pretend it didn't happen.

17 hours ago, EcchiRevenge said:

It proves there's a time when rear hit kills(or at least close enough) BTR in 1, since somehow you were clearly having trouble remembering that time.

And where exactly did have trouble remembering or pretended that directional damage multipliers were not in Squad? Did I ever ask for this proof?

Quote

BMP-1 and 2 have weird ammorack location that isn't directly under the turret, see vehicle practice mod for detail.

Yeah, I tested it on live server and hitting BMP in the ammorack did not yield consistent results. Sadly, practice mod is unavailable for B19 so we can't install it on our training server. I've also took the liberty to ask AT comp player if he knew how to consitently hit BMP's ammorack and that was a no. Bradley is the only vic I could justify going for the ammorack as a LAT.

Tanks, like mentioned before, have a beefier ammorack and realistically cannot be ammoracked by LATs. So that basically leaves Bradley as the sole vic that you can justify going for the ammorack kill as an AT.

 

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You're also assuming everyone has 2 HEAT rockets...(or, even worse, for rando teammate's RPG-26 to hit instead of miss badly)

I don't remember assuming that. If anything I have always assumed the opposite.

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It just means you're likely going to die trying to shoot the IFV...etc. from front.  160 isn't a lot of ammo points but it's a lot of reloads. That's 40s spent on reload alone(assuming you're already loaded and fire at beginning of engagement).    Let's pretend Bradley doesn't kill you at first 4 attempts and you hit all shots...that's stretching your luck if you don't at least try to shoot from flank once.

I never talked in absolutes here. Hitting a vic from the front only does not imply not changing positions. My whole premise is that LATs (and to an extent HATs) should focus on mobility hits/disables where possible. This can usually be achieved without needing to flank.

 

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Driver tells gunner where you are, and you die.

Ah yes, I forgot gunners have a death note that they write your name on and you die.
 

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That's why you'll never be good enough - you think letting enemy repair/drive back to main is job well done.

I do not understand where this is coming from since I never made any claims about what I consider a good job as it is all relative and depends very heavily on the situation.

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