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=CDN= Wehmann

Rally Point Changes Needed

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Posted (edited)

Seeing as the Rally point has/will always be a hot topic and have varying views on how it should be implemented, I assume the Devs have been vague on this front to allow feedback and ideas to flow while they consider which route to take it.

Therefore I will lay out my own arguments for the way I think OWI should take the Rally point and its importance on not only its function and impact as a spawn point, but how its implementation touches on everything from tickets, balance, tactics, intensity and overall teamwork and flow of a match. Lets take a look at some very available and proven data in front of us:

 

A Squad Leader has the ability to set Rally Points (RP). This allows fallen squad members to regroup in a safe area with the rest of their squad. The following conditions must be met for the RP to be placed successfully: You need to have 2 squad members close to you.

Enemy is further than 50m away on 1x1km maps or 125m or 2x2km and 4x4km maps.

The rally point automatically disappears after 60 seconds unless:

It is within 2x large map grid squares of a friendly FOB

It is within 2x large map grid squares of a friendly APC or IFV. Only those of which you can request kits. which in turn improves Teamwork and cohesion between APC SQ's and INF SQ's.

An enemy that comes within 50m on 1x1km maps or 125m or 2x2km and 4x4km maps from the rally point will disable it. On larger maps it is 600m.

A rally point rearms every 1 minute. Unless it has become overrun. In which case you need to wait 5 minutes.

Deployable FOBS or hideouts become unspawnable for 30 seconds if 1 enemy is within 10m, 2 enemies within 50m, 4 enemies within 100m or 8 enemies within 150m.

 

These changes can realign Squad towards a more tactical focus and experience, where speed and individual effectiveness is less of an equation compared to moving with care, spotting contacts, communicating and engaging as a SQUAD vs as an individual. The Fear and intensity of coming into contact with the enemy can be restored in a game that is currently lacking good firefight pacing and consequence for performing poorly in an engagement. The above is the current in-game mechanics and data ported over from PR, and proven to work.

Furthermore, looking more in depth at Death and respawning, some positive gameplay changes could also be made if the following was adapted:

Change a players respawn time to at least 45 seconds and at most 60 seconds plus temporary penalties. Time spent while waiting for a medic is subtracted from that time. Once a player dies he has to wait at least 5 seconds before spawning. These actions influence the respawn time:

Sometimes players will not be revivable, such as when a player is killed in a vehicle. If you were recently revived and you become critically wounded again within 2 minutes, you will not be revivable the second time. If you are wounded and you are not revived within 5 minutes you will also go dead. If there is no chance of being revived, left click on Give up/Call Medic on the spawn screen. Now the screen will show that you are dead and you can prepare to respawn. The time you spent waiting to click give up counts toward your total respawn time.

 

Re-spawning

Player death: +3s

Capturing CP or destroying objective: -3s

Doing a defensive action: -1s

Squad built forward outpost: -10s

A temporary spawn time penalty which only affects the next time you die (building up to 5 minutes) is added by these actions:

Teamkill: 15 seconds per teamkill

Suicide: 15 seconds

Own weapons cache destroyed: 300 seconds

 

All of these changes combined I believe would more closely align Squad with it's original vision, and improve/encourage teamwork, sticking together, and creating an intense battlefield that you actually fear strolling through instead of sprinting around in like a track star.

Considering that every Squad member in SQUAD can revive each other and Rifleman kits make revives essentially endless if coordinated correctly, I feel that the current revive system allows for a more consequence, reward and punishment system such as the one I described above. This would elevate the INF gameplay in my opinion and would mean that every engagement had greater weight and a sense of fear to it.

If your squad cant manage to close with and destroy the INF its engaging than the best course of action is to ensure your SL and 1 INF member can escape and evade to an area far enough away from the enemy to than drop the Rally for a proper Rally point and move out all together to either retreat and defend or find a new way forward.

 

This Spawning mechanic was critical to the way firefights played out in in PR and stems from the fact that you need to value your life, you need to be spotting and moving a little more slowly and tactically and that you need to ensure you are staying nearby your team mates because at the end of the day, a Rally point that isn't permanent like it currently is implemented in SQUAD, makes for better, more methodical infantry gameplay and engagements that would solve a lot of the small pacing and intensity issues with SQUAD currently.

The current spawn system just doesn't play into SQUADS strengths and goals of keeping a SQ together and communicating and working together."What we really want to encourage is player’s using the revive feature more often and working together with their Squad in proximity." I really hope that with this statement from OWI that they can consider testing out a Rally mechanic that somewhat mirrors the above and take a step away from the safety net of the permanent, and over all seperating nature of the current rally system.

 

The Meta is essentially hide your rally in an unlikely position nearby the enemy FOB/CAPZONE and have your Squad trickle back into the area as they die, than have SL refresh in new area if Enemy getting too close or Rally becomes compromised.

I appreciate the move and future plans to incentivize staying in the incapacitated state longer and having that contribute to your overall time spent having to wait in the dead-dead screen before spawning, but having this system tied into what is essentially a lottery/random countdown timer where if you wanna have any guess at the current countdown you have to ask a dead-dead player which just doesn't feel right or play well, especially when said Rally point is permanent.

Not only do the spawns slowly break down Squad cohesion overtime on an extended failed assault, it also adversely effects the overall flow of the team and Squad and the enjoyment and satisfaction of infantry engagements as a whole. If your Squad is dying and wasting tickets than they are doing something wrong, they need to fall back and find another plan of action, or perhaps have their feet indeed wiped out from underneath them and restart from the nearest FOB.

 

Squad is so close to being exactly what I hoped it would be when I first saw it linked to its kickstarter on the PR forums... I think that's the most frustrating part! Just a few mechanical changes to spawning and reviving/death etc and you would have a pretty worthy PR successor, but instead we have what you see currently in-game.. an often fractured and unorganized Pub experience that really only successfully displays Squads message in Clan or organized events. Show PR some love and respect in the form of reimposing those pillars that made the PR public server experience so enjoyable. The mechanics that force Squad cohesion and teamplay at a minimum. Thanks for your time and hopefully this catches the eye of some Devs, or atleast starts some fires around here for a bit again.

 

Yours truly,

 

The Squad Discord Banned-it

- Wehmann

Edited by =CDN= Wehmann

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Absolutely this would improve the spawning and flow of combat in the game. I want these or similar changes in the game before I play it again. But I don't think we will see a worthy PR successor until other Squad-simplified features like suppression and muzzle sway are met as well. The PR devs recognized the importance of these features to good gameplay and pushed annoying but necessary things like bullet deviation, where the game required "settle time" before you could take accurate shots. We don't need that anymore because we're on a good engine that has muzzle sway, so what did the Squad devs do? Practically remove muzzle sway and the difficulty in shooting altogether in favor of a system where you go from sprint to instakilling the enemy in the head. The gunfights are short and boring in Squad and encourage players to venture off on their own so they can surprise other squads from odd angles. And I don't blame them. It is so easy regain stamina and pop several people in the head. The game practically begs for players to go sneaking around as lone-wolf assassins.

 

Your points are a great step in improving the game. I'm just saying there are several issues keeping it from being the best it can be.

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3 hours ago, =CDN= Wehmann said:

 

+1

 

Mate!...if only.

 

I support you all the way. But SQUAD is no longer a "baby", and the devs know everything there is to know about PR. If they haven´t done it yet, it is because they don´t want that kind of gameplay.

 

Believe me, there is nothing I would appreciate more. But… business...you know….

 

And here we go again, on the "this should be PR´s spiritual successor ride! yupiii! 

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1 hour ago, Nightingale87 said:

+1

 

Mate!...if only.

 

I support you all the way. But SQUAD is no longer a "baby", and the devs know everything there is to know about PR. If they haven´t done it yet, it is because they don´t want that kind of gameplay.

 

Believe me, there is nothing I would appreciate more. But… business...you know….

 

And here we go again, on the "this should be PR´s spiritual successor ride! yupiii! 

+2

 

I feel exactly the same way and I'm so disappointed how thing turned around.

More and more often displeasure comes up in me and I wish I had not supported Squad on Kickstarter.

But it is as you have already said and even if I wish it too deeply like others, it will probably never be fulfilled.

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4 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

I support you all the way. But SQUAD is no longer a "baby", and the devs know everything there is to know about PR. If they haven´t done it yet, it is because they don´t want that kind of gameplay.

 

Believe me, there is nothing I would appreciate more. But… business...you know….

 

And here we go again, on the "this should be PR´s spiritual successor ride! yupiii! 

The craziest thing is, I don't think this is true. There's never been any indication that Squad's design goals are different than those of PR. Squad is too prideful to take notes from PR but too unambitious to have goals beyond it. It explains why Squad is so rudderless, there's no goals to work towards. You can see the way new features like helicopters are heavily modified to smoosh them into the existing meta. What kind of useful feedback is possible if there's no definable concept of what the game is trying to be?

OP I think your priorities are a bit off. Rally is taken out of context a lot, it's for rallying your squad first and foremost so it falls apart if everyone spawns far away on FOBs instead. OWI nerfs rallies every patch, and it only serves to further the current FOB meta hell. Without overhauling the spawn system this would be a mostly negative change, except for removing the wave timer.

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5 hours ago, Good-Try Greg said:

 OWI nerfs rallies every patch, and it only serves to further the current FOB meta hell. Without overhauling the spawn system this would be a mostly negative change, except for removing the wave timer.

I think it was prior to v10 rallies had a timer and then dissapeared. THen they gave them "rally spawns". It had 9 spawns but had no timer, and after the 9 spawnes it had to be reset. And then they became permanent. 

 

So I´m not quite sure OWI nerfs rallies every patch. Because they used to be much less powerful than they are now.

 

But I do agree, they don´t say much about their direction. OR....

 

They do say it, with their acts. And this is what they want, something with a learning curve that doesn´t scare away new players, and short rounds with a lot of pew-pew action for casuals and a certain part of the audience.

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If those changes will see the light, the average free-weekend casual will not be able to enjoy Squad since he'll have to spend a lot of time running from spawn after being stupidly killed from unknown direction. After this event he'll describe Squad to his free-weekend casual friends. He'll say something like "I spawned and then run into objective for 10 minutes and then i suddenly died so i had to run for 10 minutes again so booooooriiiiing and milsimmy! After that i got kicked from squad for not having a mic and not communicating! Don't buy that game, it's boring and milsim!" 

So get lost, kickstarter backers. This game isn't for you guys anymore, you already paid your money long time ago, and it's time for free-weekend casuals to do the same. 

Only mods for this game can fulfill our hopes and justify early kickstarter promises. Currently it's a game that tries to sit on a two chairs simulthaneously. They want to be casual-friendly and hardcore at the same time. The problem with it is that you can't be both at the same time, you have to choose some specific way. 

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7 hours ago, Grantovich said:

They want to be casual-friendly and hardcore at the same time.

Yep, and neither side is happy.

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8 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

I think it was prior to v10 rallies had a timer and then dissapeared. THen they gave them "rally spawns". It had 9 spawns but had no timer, and after the 9 spawnes it had to be reset. And then they became permanent. 

 

So I´m not quite sure OWI nerfs rallies every patch. Because they used to be much less powerful than they are now.

 

But I do agree, they don´t say much about their direction. OR....

 

They do say it, with their acts. And this is what they want, something with a learning curve that doesn´t scare away new players, and short rounds with a lot of pew-pew action for casuals and a certain part of the audience.

v9 rallies were also spawn limited, but all that meant was you had to wait at 3 spawns for the SL to refresh. Removing the spawn limit was a practical decision, rallies had to contend with FOBs in the frontline from the very beginning and were inherently devalued from that, which made it more difficult to coordinate the use of them. Rallies have changed very little since then. OWI has basically been in maintenance and content mode ever since.

 

Rounds in Squad are really long, what do you mean. Fuzzhead has talked about how important that is, along with every other idea from PR.

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1 hour ago, Good-Try Greg said:

Rounds in Squad are really long, what do you mean. Fuzzhead has talked about how important that is, along with every other idea from PR.

40 minutes is not really long compared to PR. In PR you could easily played 1.15-1.25 hours rounds. I am convined that making the rounds shorter was a goal set from the beginning.

 

In general, rounds in PR are much longer and fuzzhead knows that. When he talks about long rounds, he does so comparing them to other games in the genre, not to PR (or a coop sesión in ARMA for that matter)

9 hours ago, Grantovich said:

So get lost, kickstarter backers. This game isn't for you guys anymore, you already paid your money long time ago, and it's time for free-weekend casuals to do the same. 

Sadly, true. This has no DLCs they don´t need our money anymore.

 

10 hours ago, Grantovich said:

Only mods for this game can fulfill our hopes and justify early kickstarter promises. Currently it's a game that tries to sit on a two chairs simulthaneously. They want to be casual-friendly and hardcore at the same time. The problem with it is that you can't be both at the same time, you have to choose some specific way. 

Completely right. YES, support modders to develop the content you would like to see. I am not a mdeer myself and I don´t know the first thing about it, but I participate in 2 different discord channels providing feedback and taking part in the testing matches.

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3 hours ago, Good-Try Greg said:

Rounds in Squad are really long, what do you mean. Fuzzhead has talked about how important that is, along with every other idea from PR.

In fact, he said that but it was also noticed that he indirectly means that the squad has not yet reached the point and is way too short.

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I'm supporting all the opening post suggestion but the rally disappearing in 60 seconds: I enjoy more the 9 spawns dynamic. It also encouraged all the people to understand the importance of being part of a squad and giving priorities to medics and SL.

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11 hours ago, Xeinar said:

I'm supporting all the opening post suggestion but the rally disappearing in 60 seconds: I enjoy more the 9 spawns dynamic. It also encouraged all the people to understand the importance of being part of a squad and giving priorities to medics and SL.

The 9 spawns mechanic was disliked the most. Because it was the one that put the heaviest burden on the SLs shoulder, and could also be abused. 

In addition, there was also a noob (or absent minded) player that would spawn in taking the last spawn and preventing the Sl from spawning at rally. Sl then had to spawn back at main with all the rest of the dead squadmates effectively BREAKING UP THE SQUAD..

 

I don´t think we need to reinvent the Wheel. PR´s method is tested by more than a decade of experienced gameplay. What the op suggest is very good. My problem is the old question I keep posting….

 

OWI has all the knowledge and experience necessary to implement wha PR did. Why haven´t they implemented it yet???? 

 

The simple answer is: THEY DON´T WANT TO. They don´t want PR´s gameplay. Then you can suggest reasons, like, PR´s gameplay wouldnt sell as much,...bla bla bla...

 

At the end of the day, If they wanted to do it, they could. With all my respect and support for the OP, OWI already has the tools and the knowledge.

 

I suspect that some of the devs are advocating for that change, but are not being heard.

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On 3/26/2020 at 2:26 AM, Nightingale87 said:

I don´t think we need to reinvent the Wheel. PR´s method is tested by more than a decade of experienced gameplay.

^This. And yes, every point you made thereafter Nightingale87 is true, but I'm gonna continue to yell from the rooftops until I'm Banned on JoinSquad.com as well. It would be nice if the Dev's actually came out with a definitive stance and actually addressed the veering away from PR mechanics that were crucial to how a public Squad preformed and interacted with eachother and what they are planning to introduce or improve upon to fix or fulfill those missing components. Logistics for an example? Physical Crate system from PR being "improved upon" by instead having an invisible circle, no physical supplies represented being dropped off or depleted. Can someone from OWI explain to me how this is an improvement over PR's crate system?? Choosing how much ammo vs construction? Not worth the trade off in my opinion, and I'd imagine that sentiment is shared by many others.

 

Rally Points... need I say more? Both the wave system and BR (which OWI have finally backtracked on) are current examples of how the Developers seem to have forgotten what game they are developing and who the majority of their founders were.

 

I could go on and on for ****s sake..

 

HE damage, Ammo availability, Death, Medics and reviving, even marking contacts on the map have been made retard proof. It's all been dumbed down/broken or removed to be more forgiving for casual "pick up and go" players that OWI think don't have the time or patience to enjoy a slower more grounded PR like experience. But what is funny is that OWI have underestimated the overall webbing or structure of all those systems put together by PR Devs over the years that actually facilitate the game play you see between public players over the years in PR that you would hope to have emulated in SQUAD. When you have the ability for public players to join a squad, spawn over and over again with little penalty, keep the player "entertained" by constant action, which overtime becomes very drab,  with little communication needed and barely any penalties for the individual player to play as a SQUAD or maintain their position on the map, than what you end up having is the often lackluster and unfulfilling game play we see today in Squad, which frankly just wont hold up over the long term as the learning curve for Squad leading and the tactics involved fall flat.

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On 3/25/2020 at 2:55 PM, Xeinar said:

I'm supporting all the opening post suggestion but the rally disappearing in 60 seconds: I enjoy more the 9 spawns dynamic. It also encouraged all the people to understand the importance of being part of a squad and giving priorities to medics and SL.

^Supports me in everything except my most important/critical change. The Rally point should only be temporary because it represents an opportunity for your Squad to "rally" together after having a successful engagement where you have defeated the enemy and have sustained casualties that are Dead-Dead, or you have lost a firefight and your SL and enough Squad members have been able to escape and evade far enough from combat to piece together your squad again. Anything else, Permanent rally as it is now, 9 limit rally, or Buddy rally are all garbage examples that are essentially crutches for both attacking and defending Squads, whether in a firefight off the objective, or working on an objective itself, it makes no difference.

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I like the idea but I think 60 seconds is too short. Maybe 5 minutes? You have to be far enough so the enemies won't destroy it but it may take a minute or two to run to where you need to be, then you die and respawn with maybe 3-4 minutes left so you might get another respawn or two out of it. This will allow for rallies to be used to attack areas and get a few waves of guys out while giving a time limit so the enemy don't need to hunt the rally.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TacMac said:

I like the idea but I think 60 seconds is too short. Maybe 5 minutes? You have to be far enough so the enemies won't destroy it but it may take a minute or two to run to where you need to be, then you die and respawn with maybe 3-4 minutes left so you might get another respawn or two out of it. This will allow for rallies to be used to attack areas and get a few waves of guys out while giving a time limit so the enemy don't need to hunt the rally.

 

The whole idea of having a rally that is not there all the time is so people change the mind set of what you just said.

 

In your words is the summary of SQUAD´s gameplay and exactly why a non permanent rally is necessary.

 

You say that you need the rally so you can spawn, "run to where you need to be, then die and respawn". 

 

This is exactly it! having a non permanent rally Will discourage tactics that involve "Spawn, run, pew-pew, die, spawn run pew-pew, die spawn, and repeat"

 

I don´t mean to sound offensive, but the encouragement of players with a taste for that kind of gameplay, is what has me, the op, and many more, VERY UPSET, for we were promised SQUAD would be soemthing different.

Edited by Nightingale87

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It only lasts 60 seconds, but it also refreshes in 60 seconds. You can kind of see the lineage of the original SL spawn in it, squads can continue to use it to reinforce their numbers, as long as they are out of combat and have SL + 2 people.

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Of course i like it, but I personaly would like it to be even more restricted. The Rally is only spawnable is long as the SL and at least one Sqmate are within 10m of the Rally. 60 seconds are quite some time and often times the SL just places a Rally and sprints on and eveybody trys to catch up... beeing up 60s of sprint apart is still some distance. A rallypoint should realy only be to rally the Squad.

On 24.3.2020 at 8:21 PM, =CDN= Wehmann said:

Deployable FOBS or hideouts become unspawnable for 30 seconds if 1 enemy is within 10m, 2 enemies within 50m, 4 enemies within 100m or 8 enemies within 150m.

And I think this is even my most favorit part. No insta: you got them, its spawnable again. And it should be definitiv the more friends you bring the earlier the FOB is overrun.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/27/2020 at 6:06 PM, Nightingale87 said:

 

The whole idea of having a rally that is not there all the time is so people change the mind set of what you just said.

 

In your words is the summary of SQUAD´s gameplay and exactly why a non permanent rally is necessary.

 

You say that you need the rally so you can spawn, "run to where you need to be, then die and respawn". 

 

This is exactly it! having a non permanent rally Will discourage tactics that involve "Spawn, run, pew-pew, die, spawn run pew-pew, die spawn, and repeat"

 

I don´t mean to sound offensive, but the encouragement of players with a taste for that kind of gameplay, is what has me, the op, and many more, VERY UPSET, for we were promised SQUAD would be soemthing different.

The thing about what I said is not really "spawn, run, pew pew until you die, repeat". 5 minutes gives people time to have a comfortable window (not too long or short) that they can respawn with if they die. Let's say you were attacking Radio Tower on Chora after defending your FOB on Upper Orchard. You put a rally in the river halfway to the obj and you have a 5 minute timer so that if you get contact on the way, you can get one (or two if you're lucky) respawn out of it if you die in the engagement. It gives an ample time for respawning while not reinforcing a careless, rush-in-and-die type gameplay. A timer of one minute would be too short, as you wouldn't even have time to die and respawn on the rally if you played carefully. A 60 second timer would do the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish from my view because people will say "oh, we only have 60 seconds on rally, might as well rush in and risk dying super fast because I only have a minute to respawn". No one would be able to use the rallies because the timer would be too short to get a use out of the rally unless you rushed in and died soon after. I believe a 5 minute timer would give time so people won't feel pressured to rush in and die so they can respawn before the rally burns; but will also burn out as to not make the rally a permanent spawn point for the squad. On larger maps like Gorodok or Yehorivka, you would get little to no use from the rally because you can't place it close to the enemy because they can burn it, but with the 60 second timer you wouldn't be able to place it further out because the timer for the rally would run out as you're running to the area that you are attacking.

 

Edit: Wanted to clarify the reason I said "so you can spawn, "run to where you need to be, then die and respawn". is because you have a high possibility of dying when attacking an objective. I by no means believe the gameplay is "run, die, respawn, repeat", but that you have a high chance of dying so if you run to where you need to be and die, then you have the option to respawn without the timer running out. Hope this makes more sense.

Edited by TacMac

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1 hour ago, TacMac said:

The thing about what I said is not really "spawn, run, pew pew until you die, repeat". 5 minutes gives people time to have a comfortable window (not too long or short) that they can respawn with if they die. Let's say you were attacking Radio Tower on Chora after defending your FOB on Upper Orchard. You put a rally in the river halfway to the obj and you have a 5 minute timer so that if you get contact on the way, you can get one (or two if you're lucky) respawn out of it if you die in the engagement. It gives an ample time for respawning while not reinforcing a careless, rush-in-and-die type gameplay. A timer of one minute would be too short, as you wouldn't even have time to die and respawn on the rally if you played carefully. A 60 second timer would do the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish from my view because people will say "oh, we only have 60 seconds on rally, might as well rush in and risk dying super fast because I only have a minute to respawn". No one would be able to use the rallies because the timer would be too short to get a use out of the rally unless you rushed in and died soon after. I believe a 5 minute timer would give time so people won't feel pressured to rush in and die so they can respawn before the rally burns; but will also burn out as to not make the rally a permanent spawn point for the squad. On larger maps like Gorodok or Yehorivka, you would get little to no use from the rally because you can't place it close to the enemy because they can burn it, but with the 60 second timer you wouldn't be able to place it further out because the timer for the rally would run out as you're running to the area that you are attacking.

 

Edit: Wanted to clarify the reason I said "so you can spawn, "run to where you need to be, then die and respawn". is because you have a high possibility of dying when attacking an objective. I by no means believe the gameplay is "run, die, respawn, repeat", but that you have a high chance of dying so if you run to where you need to be and die, then you have the option to respawn without the timer running out. Hope this makes more sense.

I know what you mean. And I trully feel that you want to see a more realistic gameplay, less arcady. Still, I think that 5 minutes is too long. 

 

When I say that "we don´t need to reinvent the Wheel", what I mean is that there is no need to "guess" what time in the rally would work fine. We have PR. PR has been developing for over 10 years. That is my foothold when I tell you that 5 minutes is A LOT.

 

On the other hand, to clarify the terms, when you say...

1 hour ago, TacMac said:

5 minutes gives people time to have a comfortable window (not too long or short) that they can respawn with if they die. 

I say NO. People should not feel "comfortable if they die". With 5 minutes you are still recreating the gameplay you think you are discouraging. 

Because sooner or later, the players will develop a new meta in which they keep updating the rally every 2 deahts (lets say) and the new meta would be "how often is it optimum to update rally to keep pressure on the point". Actually very similar to when rallies had 9 spanws.

 

A rally is not there (shouldn´t be) to make people feel comfortable about dying, so they can "rush" effectively. In Squad there are basically 2 attitudes: Attack RUSH ASSAULT, and Defend CAMP FOB/FLAG. 

There is no scouting, no probing attacks, no retreats. All that happens because people can "feel comfortbale" because respawn mechanics (in general) are VERY forgiving, and 5 minutes rally would be quite forgiving too (Specially if they don´t change the overrun radius)

 

On the other hand, when you say that having a shorter time will actually Increase the players feel they need to rush, I have to say that that is NOT going to happen. How do I know it? Well, 10+ years of PR development and gameplay testing tells me it doesn´t happen.

 

I want to say that I do appreciate your ideas and your attemps to make SQUAD vanilla better and more realistic. I am on your side in that aspect, it is just that the experience from PR can help us have "shortcuts" to where we want to go, instead of moving up, down, left and right trying to find the EXACT formula of respawn timers, rallies, and so on, to make a great gameplay.

 

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Just for general information here are how rally points work in PR 1.5 - https://www.realitymod.com/manual/en/the_squad_leader.html#rally-points

 

Quote

The following conditions must be met for the RP to be placed successfully:

  • You are the leader of your squad and are equipped with the officer kit.
  • You need to have 2 squad members close to you.
  • Enemy is further than 50m away on 1x1km maps or 125m or 2x2km and 4x4km maps.

The rally point automatically disappears after 60 seconds unless:

  • It is within 2x large map grid squares of a friendly FOB
  • It is within 2x large map grid squares of a friendly APC or IFV. Only those of which you can request kits.

An enemy that comes within 50m on 1x1km maps or 125m or 2x2km and 4x4km maps from the rally point will disable it. On larger maps it is 600m.

A rally point rearms every 1 minute. Unless it has become overrun. In which case you need to wait 5 minutes.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

As per usual, the manual is outdated. Vehicles no longer support rallies, meaning the only way to have a permanent rally is have it be close to a FOB.

 

23 hours ago, TacMac said:

...

You are missing the point. The goal here is absolutely to make rallies a secondary way of respawning. Yes, a 60 second rally is a pretty crappy respawn point. It should be. Rallies should be a tool to help a squad stay together in extreme cases, not the go-to respawn mechanic. If a squad wipes, they should use a HAB or spawn in main. If 2 guys go dead-dead in a firefight, they use the rally so that the poor two guys don't have to walk trough half the map to get to their mates who are still alive. But once they spawn in, the rally should be of no use any more. With the changes to bleed out, rallies are not even strictly necessary to be honest. I hardly ever get into a situation where I die because friendlies don't revive me in time as opposed to not having anyone around to revive to begin with because they were too busy dying themselves.

 

A 60 seconds timer is already very generous. It would be even nicer if rallies only allowed people to spawn who were downed or dead when the rally got placed in the first place. That way the act of rallying people in would be fully deliberate, not just an other spawnpoint that the SL can plop down whenever he so pleases.

Edited by Aleon

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Aleon said:

You are missing the point. The goal here is absolutely to make rallies a secondary way of respawning. Yes, a 60 second rally is a pretty crappy respawn point. It should be. Rallies should be a tool to help a squad stay together in extreme cases, not the go-to respawn mechanic. If a squad wipes, they should use a HAB or spawn in main. If 2 guys go dead-dead in a firefight, they use the rally so that the poor two guys don't have to walk trough half the map to get to their mates who are still alive. But one they spawn in, the rally should be of no use any more. With the changes to bleed out, rallies are not even strictly necessary to be honest. I hardly ever get into a situation where I die because friendlies don't revive me in time as opposed to not having anyone around to revive to begin with because they were too busy dying themselves.

 

A 60 seconds timer is already very generous. It would be even nicer if rallies only allowed people to spawn who were downed or dead when the rally got placed in the first place. That way the act of rallying people in would be fully deliberate, not just an other spawnpoint that the SL can plop down whenever he so pleases.

^That.

Edited by Titan84

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2 hours ago, Aleon said:

As per usual, the manual is outdated. Vehicles no longer support rallies, meaning the only way to have a permanent rally is have it be close to a FOB.

 

You are missing the point. The goal here is absolutely to make rallies a secondary way of respawning. Yes, a 60 second rally is a pretty crappy respawn point. It should be. Rallies should be a tool to help a squad stay together in extreme cases, not the go-to respawn mechanic. If a squad wipes, they should use a HAB or spawn in main. If 2 guys go dead-dead in a firefight, they use the rally so that the poor two guys don't have to walk trough half the map to get to their mates who are still alive. But one they spawn in, the rally should be of no use any more. With the changes to bleed out, rallies are not even strictly necessary to be honest. I hardly ever get into a situation where I die because friendlies don't revive me in time as opposed to not having anyone around to revive to begin with because they were too busy dying themselves.

 

A 60 seconds timer is already very generous. It would be even nicer if rallies only allowed people to spawn who were downed or dead when the rally got placed in the first place. That way the act of rallying people in would be fully deliberate, not just an other spawnpoint that the SL can plop down whenever he so pleases.

+1 

That is my point. 60 seconds is already very generous.

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