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Geebus

It seems to be getting worse... How do we fix it?

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Up until very recently, I didn't think that the massive influx of new players was all that bad. I was pretty well used to short periods of horrible gameplay that would eventually level out as people got the hang of the game. I enjoyed helping new players. Now it seems that on many servers this isn't the case. I can only see this getting worse. These players aren't new anymore. They have been playing the game for a few months. They seem to be set in their ways.

 

I used to be pretty idealistic on this topic. I used to figure that everything would be fine if people who know how to play the game just 'lead by example'. I figured that most people would just fall in line and everything would be peachy. Now I have pretty well reversed. It is getting to the point where it is almost too far gone. Too many experienced players are giving up. I've almost gotten to the point myself.

 

Go back a year, year and a half ago and it still seemed like the majority of the community followed a common mindset. They understood that they needed to stick together. It wasn't perfect but maybe half of them waited at least a little bit for a medic. Squad leads communicated between each other. They discussed what they want to do before the match started.

 

We can argue about game play changes that need to be made all day. There are countless threads on this. Lets forget about those changes for now, leave it for all those other threads. and discuss what we can do on a community level. My question is, how do we re instill this common mind set again? We shouldn't have to try to herd cats. It shouldn't be the norm to constantly have to keep asking players to stick together. There is no reason to need to babysit players. It shouldn't be the norm for people to regularly go off on their own. People should wait for medics and you sure as heck shouldn't need to ask players to switch of marksman to pick up a med kit! It should be expected that the majority of the squad understands these simple concepts. If you are genuinely new to the game and don't understand it is understandable but after 10 hours you should have learned by then! If it was only a couple of players in a squad that had to be held by the hand it could be managed but when it gets to the point of half the squad just doing their own thing it gets to be unsustainable. You can get away with kicking a player or two for not making an attempt at following directions but you can't do it for the entire Squad.

 

What are other things that every squad player need to understand? What are rules to the game that should never be dropped? What is the baseline that almost every player should follow in order to help get this game going back into the direction that we want? I don't want to get burned out of the game and give up like so many people have done. I still have fun with the game but it is getting harder and harder to do so.

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I’ve seen some absolutely clueless retarded game play over the last month or so!!! 

 

Some guys inter clan can’t play pub atm because it’s so bad!! 

 

And when you’re asking SL’s to do a certain thing you get shit for telling them because they know better!!!!! 

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Everything has already been discussed in other threads.


When you suggest changing community / dominating play style without changing game mechanics, don't forget that your suggestion should work for games like COD/BF too, as they are only different mechanically. And clans in those has pretty high level of communication/teamwork too

Edited by paragonid

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1 hour ago, Geebus said:

We can argue about game play changes that need to be made all day. There are countless threads on this. Lets forget about those changes for now, leave it for all those other threads. and discuss what we can do on a community level. My question is, how do we re instill this common mind set again? We shouldn't have to try to herd cats. It shouldn't be the norm to constantly have to keep asking players to stick together. There is no reason to need to babysit players. It shouldn't be the norm for people to regularly go off on their own. People should wait for medics and you sure as heck shouldn't need to ask players to switch of marksman to pick up a med kit! It should be expected that the majority of the squad understands these simple concepts. If you are genuinely new to the game and don't understand it is understandable but after 10 hours you should have learned by then! If it was only a couple of players in a squad that had to be held by the hand it could be managed but when it gets to the point of half the squad just doing their own thing it gets to be unsustainable. You can get away with kicking a player or two for not making an attempt at following directions but you can't do it for the entire Squad.

You can´t change players´ behaviour without changing the game mechanics that allow that behaviour. Period.

 

You can have high hopes and I understand Why (I also pity you a bit). But Squad vanilla wont become more realistic, nor more realistic tactically, nor more team oriented. IT WONT HAPPEN. Devs are happy with the money they are making and thats fine.

 

You must think the devs are stupid. They aren´t. If they wanted to develop a more realistic vanilla they would do it. They know how to. They are good at developing. The developed exactly the game they wanted to. One that is similar enough not to alienate players, yet its different enough for players to be interested. One that makes MONEY.

 

I would suggest you stopped trying to change VANILLA (it wont happen) and dedicate your efforts to support new mods that develop the mechanics you want to see in the game. 

 

(Or just download PR and jump in...its free!...lol!)

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You can't treat symptoms.

 

Squad always had a steady influx of casuals, but most of them couldn't cope with punishing mechanics and left. Now that the punishing mechanics are gone and forgotten, more and more of them stay. That's why the game was able to increase numbers of players over the past year or so. The rapid decline in quality of gameplay is simply the sad, easily predictable result of casuals becoming a majority in Squad community.

 

For better or worse, unless there is some kind of a radical change within OWI's priorities, you're stuck with these people. I don't have much of a hope for mods either, even for all the supposed support modders get, mod servers are a fringe part of Squad that goes completely unnoticed by most players.

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People don't care about tactics, teamwork, comms, specific roles etc. because the mechanics that forces players to care and think about these aspects are removed or completely watered down.  
 

Squad is currently an empty shell of what it used to be, this effected the playerbase and the overall experience people have and how players play the game. Cause and effect. 
 

You cant bring back the comms and teamwork without bringing back the ‘old mechanics’.

Best thing is to hope for talented modders or the slim chance that the devs will see the light.

 

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1 hour ago, [RIP] DogBite said:

People don't care about tactics, teamwork, comms, specific roles etc. because the mechanics that forces players to care and think about these aspects are removed or completely watered down.  

 

This in spades, the actual essence of Squad has been removed.

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When you see a clueless squad playing in your team fallowing a sl that dose not know what he is doing its not as nearly as bad as seeing a full squad of same clan guys playing as noobs its surprising and disappointing but it happens.

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When Gmod/Arma3life sends its people, they're not sending their best.

The only reason to play Squad is to destroy the noobs, see them giveup before you, and hear the lamentation of their mothers.

To ruin their day by killing their logi,tank...etc. not far outside their main with HAT kit...etc.  Rinse and repeat until round quickly ends and server dies.  Make sure they have a poor gaming experience as they continue to play badly(as developers coddled them), and shame all the baddies on both teams for one-manning armor/dying repeatedly.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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The other night we had a SL put the only ammo crate inside a building with the radio and literally blocked it off. If you wanted ammo you had to go through hoops and bounds to get to the ammo crate. I asked the other three SLs to drop more around and they either refused or just ignored me. Then our super fob was over ran and we lost. After that I got flamed by my team for asking for more ammo crates. Welcome to the Squad.

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14 hours ago, budder8818 said:

We need a reputation system.

No. We dont. That is counterproductive. That only atracts and appeals to people who are "I me my mine" oriented.

 

That is the opposite of teamwork. 

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3 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

No. We dont. That is counterproductive. That only atracts and appeals to people who are "I me my mine" oriented.

 

That is the opposite of teamwork. 

This. We have way too many people that focus solely on how well they do on the FPS mechanics side of the game as is. Stats are cool because it gives a way for people to see, numerically, how well they did in the game, but you don't want to make the leader board show much more than what squad did the best in a few categories. Anything more causes people to worry about their K/D rather than helping their squad.

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10 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

No. We dont. That is counterproductive. That only atracts and appeals to people who are "I me my mine" oriented.

 

That is the opposite of teamwork. 

I didn't say a ranking system. A reputation system is based off your peer's assessment of your game-play. Should be done by voting at the end of the round. 

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3 hours ago, budder8818 said:

I didn't say a ranking system. A reputation system is based off your peer's assessment of your game-play. Should be done by voting at the end of the round. 

That has also been proposed. The problema is that clan members/friends Will vote each other positively always. 

 

On the other hand, You are giving a lot of power to people you maybe shouldnt trust too much. A troll Will vote an sl down just because he is not doing what he wants the squad to do. Yet, that can be an excelent sl. One might argue that in the end it would balance out.

 

Anyway, an experienced player realices if the SL is decent in the first 45 seconds of the game.

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Squad has traded authenticity for popularity - they want more money.

 

The chance is indeed very slim that the devs see the light.

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13 hours ago, flappie said:

Squad has traded authenticity for popularity - they want more money.

 

The chance is indeed very slim that the devs see the light.

They do see the light. There is nothing bad with them making money.

 

Just lets keep asking for them to develop / support more realistic gameplay. 

 

Whoever likes arcady vanilla is fine. But those who want to have something more "authentic" should support this game as it can be our platform to enjoy great mods like SQUADOPS ONE LIFE.

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