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DualFlameBane

Remove option to "Give Up"?

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An issue that I have seen mentioned here a lot is that Squad has become too "gamey", with the actual point of the game seemingly shifting to rally management and spamming objectives with respawned infantry.  And the people making these complaints have a point.  It hardly seems realistic to not fear death, and streams of infantry nickle-and-dime-ing in from a respawn point isn't the teamwork that the devs claim to want to encourage.

 

On the other hand, it's a game, and players want to play.  So, it sucks if you are that first guy who gets picked off and then the game ends for you.  Escape from Tarkov is sort of like that.  Yes, it has great immersion and players fear death, and act accordingly, because they only have one life in any given raid and they lose almost EVERYTHING they were carrying when they die.  But I don't think Squad really wants to be that, beyond the special events that SquadOps and some others run.

 

So, how about removing the option to Give Up when wounded, as a sort of a middle ground?  Either the medic gets to you, or you have to sit around for 4 or 5 minutes while you bleed out.  (An opportunity to go pee, or get a sandwich?)  Do you think that might mitigate the issue?  It would mean no more endless defenders respawning in their HAB and rendering it nearly impossible to take some objectives- players might use actual tactics instead.  Because if you have good enough tactics you can probably overwhelm your opponent before everyone bleeds out and respawns in 5 minutes.  When the game is ostensibly an hour and a half I don't think that 5 minutes is too much.

 

Of course, artillery would really have to be nerfed, as I mentioned elsewhere.

Edited by DualFlameBane

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The problem is that it is too easy to give up and just spawn at a rally. Even worse is that most of the time, even with everyone having the ability to revive each other, it is much faster just to give up and respawn. I think that the solution of removing the ability to give up is too far in one direction.

 

A better solution would be to make it harder just to give up and respawn. The idea I have would be to give some kind of penalty for giving up too soon. Maybe you should be forced wait a minute before you can give up? Maybe it just gives you a longer respawn time if you give up before a certain threshold? Maybe it only applies when there are friendlies within a certain radius?

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There is already a 1 ticket penalty for giving up.  Maybe make it 1 ticket for dying or bleeding out but 2 for giving up?  But I think people would still think it's easier to give up and get back into the action.  Most people really aren't team players.

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@DualFlameBane

 

Agree with others, the only thing that could change is levying a bigger penalty against those who give up. Removing it entirely may only do more harm than good. It might deter people from wanting to play the game if they are forced to sit there and wait, and wait, and wait. That one life system works for Tarkov, but it won't work for Squad, two entirely different types of games. 

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3 hours ago, DualFlameBane said:

There is already a 1 ticket penalty for giving up.  Maybe make it 1 ticket for dying or bleeding out but 2 for giving up?  But I think people would still think it's easier to give up and get back into the action.  Most people really aren't team players.

FEAR! the emotion fear is absent of the game. If you'd put them in a real combat situation, you'd see the biggest teamplayers solely because of the emotion fear. We need a harnass that applies electrical schock when getting shot in game!

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7 minutes ago, Pharanaiton said:

FEAR! the emotion fear is absent of the game. If you'd put them in a real combat situation, you'd see the biggest teamplayers solely because of the emotion fear. We need a harnass that applies electrical schock when getting shot in game!

Well, now you are asking for too much from the developers. This is a video game, not real life, so unless someone is actually holding a gun to your head, the fear of getting shot can never possibly be 100% simulated. There is really nothing more they can do accept impose a bigger penalty. Even then, I can guarantee you it won't change that much when it comes to teamwork.....Well actually, there is something else they can do, and that is allow the player to kill the enemy after incapacitating them. This along with a bigger penalty, losing two tickets instead of one, is about as much as they can do. 

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34 minutes ago, Jibroni Gibironi said:

losing two tickets instead of one, is about as much as they can do. 

For public servers this rule will only make the games last shorter i'm afraid.

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Giving up you can only spawn at main. If you bleed out you get to chose spawn point as is now. They would need to adjust bleed out times from their current settings.

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9 hours ago, Pharanaiton said:

FEAR! the emotion fear is absent of the game. If you'd put them in a real combat situation, you'd see the biggest teamplayers solely because of the emotion fear. We need a harnass that applies electrical schock when getting shot in game!

We need players to know that if they die they will have to wait 2/3 minutes to respawn and when they do they will have to do it far away (if their SL didnt place a good rally) For that we need rallies to be nerfed and stop being permanent. They should also Increase the cooling time to drop a new one and the overrun radius.

 

All changes that I dont really care about sisnce they wont be implemented to SQUAD vanilla because they have alreayd started testong the HC mod...

 

so...

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On 2020-01-12 at 7:45 AM, Nightingale87 said:

All changes that I dont really care about sisnce they wont be implemented to SQUAD vanilla because they have alreayd started testong the HC mod...

Say what? HC mod?

 

@DualFlameBlade : I like the idea for its simplicity, but I don't think it's workable. It's just too powerful. In the case of a squad wipe, you're taking out 9 players from the team for as long as it takes to bleed out. Those minutes could mean losing the HAB, the point, and getting to the next point before the enemy. It's just too big a penalty for the team. In instances where there is no hope for a revive, and enough players downed, one wipe could mean the effective end of the game. Would love to playtest and see what happens, but I think it would mostly result in nasty steamrolls. 

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9 minutes ago, pinko said:

Say what? HC mod?

 

@DualFlameBlade : I like the idea for its simplicity, but I don't think it's workable. It's just too powerful. In the case of a squad wipe, you're taking out 9 players from the team for as long as it takes to bleed out. Those minutes could mean losing the HAB, the point, and getting to the next point before the enemy. It's just too big a penalty for the team. In instances where there is no hope for a revive, and enough players downed, one wipe could mean the effective end of the game. Would love to playtest and see what happens, but I think it would mostly result in nasty steamrolls. 

I really don´t know what you mean. Have I missed something? I don´t get the quote and what it´s about...¿?¿? 

 

I also don´t know if it´s related to the HC mod or the vanilla squad.

 

Please clarify.

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20 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

I really don´t know what you mean. Have I missed something? I don´t get the quote and what it´s about...¿?¿? 

 

I also don´t know if it´s related to the HC mod or the vanilla squad.

 

Please clarify.

I didn't know there was an HC mod. Where is there info on it?

The rest was in response to the OP.

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2 hours ago, danielritual said:

I agree to remove give up button!

 

Well then you better have a game of bingo next to you, because you'll be looking at a black screen not understanding why this ****tard just walked past your body not giving ****s.

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why there is already a panalty for giving up inmidelty of 40 seconds ( friendly hab) and same goed for rallyi got a few times for giving up directly by accident and get a wait time on rally up to 95 seconds ( no teamkill involved) so idk what you trying to say here

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On 1/13/2020 at 2:13 PM, pinko said:

@DualFlameBlade : I like the idea for its simplicity, but I don't think it's workable. It's just too powerful. In the case of a squad wipe, you're taking out 9 players from the team for as long as it takes to bleed out. Those minutes could mean losing the HAB, the point, and getting to the next point before the enemy. It's just too big a penalty for the team. In instances where there is no hope for a revive, and enough players downed, one wipe could mean the effective end of the game. Would love to playtest and see what happens, but I think it would mostly result in nasty steamrolls. 

If you assault a position and kill everyone on it, you should take it.  Instead of having to deal with companies-worth of soldiers streaming in from a nearby HAB, which is what happens now.  Likewise, if you kill off the attacking force you should benefit from your successful defense instead of having them stream in continuously from rally points.

 

Because, see, the way rallies work now Squad is more a game of rally management than combat.

 

I kind of like the idea that Giving Up lands you at Main, actually.  Then you have to find a ride, or walk, and it makes the medic even more important for keeping an attack/defense going.  Conversely, it may help you go grab a logi now and then.

 

 

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On 1/13/2020 at 5:41 PM, danielritual said:

I agree to remove give up button!

 

Yeah, but you will never take away my Alt-F4

 

-Guy that auto gives-up

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