Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hey, guys!
Does the order of the different types of missiles matter (high explosive, tandem, high penetration...)?

Where, in the vehicle, each missile are more effective (in the track, tower, etc)?

 

Thank you all!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what you mean by order mattering.  But tandem is the "best" penetration, then HEAT is second best, and for high explosive or frag there really is no penetration- those are strictly antipersonnel rounds.  So, for instance, you would definitely prefer to to use tandem on a tank, by which I mean an actual tank, like an Abrams or T-72.  (A lot of players say "tank" to mean "any armored vehicle".  It drives the rest of us nuts.)  HEAT is good for things less than a tank, though the Bradley is also pretty tough and I personally would use an tandem on it if I had one.

 

If you go to Jensen's Range for training there are models of all the vehicles that show how thick the armor is in different places, as well as the location of the engine, ammo storage, etc.  That's how you know where to hit them.  As a generalization, the front has the thickest armor, the sides less so, and the rear the thinnest armor.  And yes, you can take out the tracks to immobilize a vehicle.  In fact, if you don't have a tandem and you're facing an actual tank that's the best you could hope for from a HEAT, probably.  In such a case the crew might try to hop out and repair it, so be ready to deal with them.

Edited by DualFlameBane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This game isn't realistic so HEAT-Tandem/HEAT for vehicles and HE-frag for people, no overlaps.

(not even unarmored vehicles; as HE often fails for whatever reason)

Just tested it again today on live server - two HE-frag from Canadian Carl-Gustav can't kill a militia logi from the back.
Probably because the "supplies" have higher armor value than the HE-frag penetration(iirc 5-10mm in game files); even if it could do damage - don't risk it.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you've got the ammo supply Tandem everything. Even a tandem vs logi doesn't insta kill, only makes it burn. Takes 2 regular heat rounds to kill a truck. Like revenge said above, the rounds don't work as they should from IRL and you have to learn the ingame gimmicks. BRDM taden either makes it burn or black smoke, gonna need the regular heat to finish.

 

My general strategy, especially with the rpg-7 is use the heat for a mobility kill, then take the time with the tandem and aim for the high damage points starting from the top, rear and sides(not track). Try not to use tandem rounds against the tracks, as they eat damage and will absorb some of it. HE does **** all against anything with even the smallest amount of armour(rpg-7 HE vs M-ATV isnt worth it).

 

Again please, especially vehicle gunners and anyone using AT weapons with the options, learn not just the real life differences between HE and HEAT(High Explosive Anti-Tank), but even more so learn about the ingame differences. They ARE NOT THE SAME and while their abilities do overlap, they shouldnt just be used interchangeably, unless the situation dictates and you know what you're doing. HE doesn't penetrate armour or do any damage to things over a logi, and even vs logis or helicopters it doesnt do as much as the others, HEAT isa weird middle ground round that doesnt splash as well as HE, but doesnt penetrate at normal engagement ranges aswell as AP. In my opinion HEAT's main purpose in the T-72 is to conserve your HE ammo when taking down habs, and emplacements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 23/01/2020 at 8:03 PM, EcchiRevenge said:

This game isn't realistic so HEAT-Tandem/HEAT for vehicles and HE-frag for people, no overlaps.

(not even unarmored vehicles; as HE often fails for whatever reason)

Just tested it again today on live server - two HE-frag from Canadian Carl-Gustav can't kill a militia logi from the back.
Probably because the "supplies" have higher armor value than the HE-frag penetration(iirc 5-10mm in game files); even if it could do damage - don't risk it.

It's because you were shooting the tray of a truck. There's nothing there to damage. If you'd done the same to the engine block or transmission it would have destroyed it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vewt said:

It's because you were shooting the tray of a truck. There's nothing there to damage. If you'd done the same to the engine block or transmission it would have destroyed it.

Weak attempt.

I shot the crates at the back; even had it overpenetrated(which isn't even a thing in Squad), it would have to go through the cabin, transmission, engine...etc.

Also, nothing implies a 84mm HE-detonation on even the "tray" would not disable a truck outright IRL.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, EcchiRevenge said:

Weak attempt.

I shot the crates at the back; even had it overpenetrated(which isn't even a thing in Squad), it would have to go through the cabin, transmission, engine...etc.

Also, nothing implies a 84mm HE-detonation on even the "tray" would not disable a truck outright IRL.

I extremely seriously doubt that it would disable it immediately or even quickly. 441D warheads only have about a kilo and a half of HMX composition in them if I remember right, and there's nothing to confine or direct the blast effect so we're really only talking about the preloaded shrapnel (either tungsten or steel balls depending on the model). It would be little different to shooting a few magazines into the tray of a truck.

 

I can't even imagine what components you think trucks have at the back - like you might get an air line or a differential, but you're not going to get anything that's going to stop the truck from continuing to drive out of the engagement area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lclXIu1.png


Guys, while playing SQUAD OPS, I got russians and Thermobaric RPG but there isn't description about it or how to use.


So, what is the purpose of this missile, Infantry or Armor?

 

Thank you!

Edited by SCG_ErwinP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thermo = heat
Baric = pressure

Basically, it's a fuel-air bomb that creates heat and overpressure that will injure or kill infantry, but have negligible effect on vehicles/armor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Vewt said:

I extremely seriously doubt that it would disable it immediately or even quickly. 441D warheads only have about a kilo and a half of HMX composition in them if I remember right, and there's nothing to confine or direct the blast effect so we're really only talking about the preloaded shrapnel (either tungsten or steel balls depending on the model). It would be little different to shooting a few magazines into the tray of a truck.

 

I can't even imagine what components you think trucks have at the back - like you might get an air line or a differential, but you're not going to get anything that's going to stop the truck from continuing to drive out of the engagement area.

Imagine not realizing shrapnel can go through unarmored truck in different directions than the one you aimed at...

Finally, since you clearly refused to read, it was a Logi.  What did you think was at the back?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, EcchiRevenge said:

Imagine not realizing shrapnel can go through unarmored truck in different directions than the one you aimed at...

Finally, since you clearly refused to read, it was a Logi.  What did you think was at the back?

Unless it was literally detonators in the back, nothing likely to be important to the conversation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Vewt said:

Unless it was literally detonators in the back, nothing likely to be important to the conversation.

Funny how you just conveniently ignored the first part of the post.
There was no conversation to be had; you simply wanted to get back at me for destroying you in the other thread.

Face reality,  Squad is far from realistic in the worst areas.  It still takes a ton of 30mm HE to bring down choppers...

Edited by EcchiRevenge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

gameplay over realism.

 

Attacker: be prepared so you can shoot the front portion of the truck.

Driver: Turn away as soon as possible to reduce risk to self and cargo

 

everyone benefits from knowledge and preparation. it makes the game better for all - to have options and reward the most prepared.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, suds said:

gameplay over realism.

 

Attacker: be prepared so you can shoot the front portion of the truck.

Driver: Turn away as soon as possible to reduce risk to self and cargo

 

everyone benefits from knowledge and preparation. it makes the game better for all - to have options and reward the most prepared.

This isn't good for gameplay.

Because it means LAT isn't able to deal with unarmored truck(since it just smokes and drives away while you try to reload HE-frag, which doesn't do anything to it anyway).  Even *if* you shoot from the front...logi smokes and drives away.

APCs(and MRAPs) are already way too tanky against LATs(and HATs depending on vehicle) yet LATs can't even kill a truck effectively...

Why do you keep insisting on a unarmored logistics vehicle being made suitable for operating near the front line?
That's not good for gameplay, at all.  Too many logi are lost in the field because some dumbass drives it into enemies and the vehicle almost always survives longer than the driver...leaving the team with less/no logi for the next x-number of minutes that is almost certainly longer than the logi respawn timer(not sure how fast it burns down when left idle for too long in newest system).

Edited by EcchiRevenge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, EcchiRevenge said:

Funny how you just conveniently ignored the first part of the post.
There was no conversation to be had; you simply wanted to get back at me for destroying you in the other thread.

Face reality,  Squad is far from realistic in the worst areas.  It still takes a ton of 30mm HE to bring down choppers...

Ecchi, you haven't destroyed anything except for your own reputation. In one thread you're a person who'se never fired a Carl Gustav or operated a military vehicle arguing with someone who has about what the effect of a HE round in the back of a military truck would be likely to do it. In the other thread you're claiming that you can more easily spot a man at 1km than you can in Squad and that when you look down ironsights in real life you magically get superhuman visual acuity.

A 441D going off in the tray of a truck would not stop it. The trucks we're talking about will operate even with a rear axle or drive shaft snapped halfway down the length of the tray (both I have seen) and a 441D is not going to do anywhere near that much damage. There is simply nothing critical to the truck continuing to function anywhere near where the relatively small and untamped blast and minor shrapnel. If you want to see what the target effects of these rounds are, check this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jZij3gH3xA) and skip to the end. The blast and shrapnel effects from this round are just not what you think they are; my memory didn't serve me because I went back and double checked and the total warhead weight is only about 1.5kg - the explosive filler is only about 500g or between the explosive of 2 and 3 M67 hand grenades.

 

The absolute best case scenario would be a freak chance of completely destroying the air system and causing the suspension to drop (if it uses air suspension, and some of the trucks we're talking about do) and engaging the brakes (if it uses air brakes, which most of the trucks we're talking about do). With momentum and engine power would overcome the brakes until they overheated and failed, but the driver might well lose control and crash in the mean time. The components anywhere near the tray of a truck are simple not what you think they are.

A vehicle as simple as a Hilux will continue to function for kilometres after taking small arms fire to the engine block. More fire or larger calibres before anti-materiel rounds will just make it fail sooner. Vehicles with larger components and more redundant designs, such as those we're talking about, will continue to function longer. If it was a BAF truck, then some of the shrapnel would hit the engine, but again, that wouldn't stop it inside your engagement area, or even inside an area the size of a Squad map in most cases.

The only two ways such a poorly aimed shot would stop a truck from getting out of the engagement area, outside of some kind of freak occurrence, is if it incapacitated the driver or if the load was sensitive explosives (or it was a fuel truck). Against a BAF truck that would be basically impossible, but against most of the trucks we're talking about it's at the very least an outside chance depending on the load. The only explosives I can think of that are sensitive enough to sympathetically explode from a nearby explosion like we're talking about (ie. small and high velocity charge, not in contact) is detonators and primers. You can literally shoot military explosives and most ammunition without any risk of it exploding - the main and very big exception being detonators which will explode for a lot less effort than even that.

If you put me in a non-armoured cab variant of a HX77, loaded me up with a few tonnes of plastic explosives and some small arms ammunition and set me a challenge to drive away from you while you shot at me with HE frag from my 6 o'clock, I would happily do it, literally not a joke - and I'd win at least 9 times out of 10. The truck would require repairs afterwards, but it would be making it out pretty comfortably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like, if you ask the same question about a 155mm HE with 7kg of explosive and a different fuse going off in or under the tray, that's a different matter. Same thing if there's a few pallets of detonators. But an 84 HE going off in the tray killing a truck? No way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, EcchiRevenge said:

This isn't good for gameplay.

yes it is :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/28/2020 at 4:50 PM, SCG_ErwinP said:

lclXIu1.png


Guys, while playing SQUAD OPS, I got russians and Thermobaric RPG but there isn't description about it or how to use.


So, what is the purpose of this missile, Infantry or Armor?

 

Thank you!

Thermobaric is the "I want to kill people with an explosive fireball that rips their lungs apart" warhead. Anti-infantry only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Vewt said:

Ecchi, you haven't destroyed anything except for your own reputation. In one thread you're a person who'se never fired a Carl Gustav or operated a military vehicle arguing with someone who has about what the effect of a HE round in the back of a military truck would be likely to do it. In the other thread you're claiming that you can more easily spot a man at 1km than you can in Squad and that when you look down ironsights in real life you magically get superhuman visual acuity.

A 441D going off in the tray of a truck would not stop it. The trucks we're talking about will operate even with a rear axle or drive shaft snapped halfway down the length of the tray (both I have seen) and a 441D is not going to do anywhere near that much damage. There is simply nothing critical to the truck continuing to function anywhere near where the relatively small and untamped blast and minor shrapnel. If you want to see what the target effects of these rounds are, check this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jZij3gH3xA) and skip to the end. The blast and shrapnel effects from this round are just not what you think they are; my memory didn't serve me because I went back and double checked and the total warhead weight is only about 1.5kg - the explosive filler is only about 500g or between the explosive of 2 and 3 M67 hand grenades.

 

The absolute best case scenario would be a freak chance of completely destroying the air system and causing the suspension to drop (if it uses air suspension, and some of the trucks we're talking about do) and engaging the brakes (if it uses air brakes, which most of the trucks we're talking about do). With momentum and engine power would overcome the brakes until they overheated and failed, but the driver might well lose control and crash in the mean time. The components anywhere near the tray of a truck are simple not what you think they are.

A vehicle as simple as a Hilux will continue to function for kilometres after taking small arms fire to the engine block. More fire or larger calibres before anti-materiel rounds will just make it fail sooner. Vehicles with larger components and more redundant designs, such as those we're talking about, will continue to function longer. If it was a BAF truck, then some of the shrapnel would hit the engine, but again, that wouldn't stop it inside your engagement area, or even inside an area the size of a Squad map in most cases.

The only two ways such a poorly aimed shot would stop a truck from getting out of the engagement area, outside of some kind of freak occurrence, is if it incapacitated the driver or if the load was sensitive explosives (or it was a fuel truck). Against a BAF truck that would be basically impossible, but against most of the trucks we're talking about it's at the very least an outside chance depending on the load. The only explosives I can think of that are sensitive enough to sympathetically explode from a nearby explosion like we're talking about (ie. small and high velocity charge, not in contact) is detonators and primers. You can literally shoot military explosives and most ammunition without any risk of it exploding - the main and very big exception being detonators which will explode for a lot less effort than even that.

If you put me in a non-armoured cab variant of a HX77, loaded me up with a few tonnes of plastic explosives and some small arms ammunition and set me a challenge to drive away from you while you shot at me with HE frag from my 6 o'clock, I would happily do it, literally not a joke - and I'd win at least 9 times out of 10. The truck would require repairs afterwards, but it would be making it out pretty comfortably.

1. wrong, your assumptions have always failed you.
2. my claim was that you can spot better in Squad in general; not specifically "a man at 1000m."  You're the one who brought up 1000m high contrast targets in Squad.  And ironically even your little attempt at providing "evidence" for your claim ended up proving my point.

3. two of them, did no damage(not even smoking).  I didn't say it should magically blow up a truck in one hit.

Amount of explosive fillers alone says nothing. (% RDX vs. TNT/whatever, design of casing...etc. matters; the M67 you're referring to has a fairly large percentage of TNT ~40% which is less powerful; a comparable Russian RGO grenade only needed 90g of fillings - 96% RDX)  Now if you're going to prove that composition B or similarly less-powerful fillers were used, you might have a point.

Nice try at posting little video showing *airburst*...

Except we're not talking about HX77.
Since it's not a joke then literally get some connection with "a few tonnes of plastic explosives" and an ural(in case you didn't notice, these are smaller) trucks and let's test out that theory. (btw you forgot fuel)  Because HE-frag round is all shrapnel no shockwave amirite?
Oh wait you can barely own firearms in australilag.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, suds said:

yes it is :D

Not at all.

HE rounds are already glitchy against infantry(often land within 5m and not kill them for whatever reason).

Edited by EcchiRevenge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, EcchiRevenge said:

1. wrong, your assumptions have always failed you.
2. my claim was that you can spot better in Squad in general; not specifically "a man at 1000m."  You're the one who brought up 1000m high contrast targets in Squad.  And ironically even your little attempt at providing "evidence" for your claim ended up proving my point.

3. two of them, did no damage(not even smoking).  I didn't say it should magically blow up a truck in one hit.

Amount of explosive fillers alone says nothing. (% RDX vs. TNT/whatever, design of casing...etc. matters; the M67 you're referring to has a fairly large percentage of TNT ~40% which is less powerful; a comparable Russian RGO grenade only needed 90g of fillings - 96% RDX)  Now if you're going to prove that composition B or similarly less-powerful fillers were used, you might have a point.

Nice try at posting little video showing *airburst*...

Except we're not talking about HX77.
Since it's not a joke then literally get some connection with "a few tonnes of plastic explosives" and an ural(in case you didn't notice, these are smaller) trucks and let's test out that theory. (btw you forgot fuel)  Because HE-frag round is all shrapnel no shockwave amirite?
Oh wait you can barely own firearms in australilag.

I literally listed the explosive in a post above (HMX). 441D shells use PBXN-110 which is 88% HMX. HMX has an RE of 1.7 giving an NEQ of 850g. M67 frags use 180g of Comp B which has an RE of 1.72 (higher than HMX) giving each one an NEQ of 310g. A 441D has, as I previously said, between 2 and 3 M67's worth of charge.

I'm not engaging with this anymore. It's pointless because you're not just ignorant, you're wilfully ignorant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Vewt said:

I literally listed the explosive in a post above (HMX). 441D shells use PBXN-110 which is 88% HMX. HMX has an RE of 1.7 giving an NEQ of 850g. M67 frags use 180g of Comp B which has an RE of 1.72 (higher than HMX) giving each one an NEQ of 310g. A 441D has, as I previously said, between 2 and 3 M67's worth of charge.

I'm not engaging with this anymore. It's pointless because you're not just ignorant, you're wilfully ignorant.

Congratulations, you're missing 90g.
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN18072_TC 3-22x84 FINAL WEB.pdf
" Explosive PBXN-110 590 HMX "
Casing design...etc.

You're bailing because you can't.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, EcchiRevenge said:

Congratulations, you're missing 90g.
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN18072_TC 3-22x84 FINAL WEB.pdf
" Explosive PBXN-110 590 HMX "
Casing design...etc.

You're bailing because you can't.

880g NEQ. Still comfortably between two and three M67s (620 and 930g). The explosive content of PBXN-110 is the HMX which is only 88% of the 590g - I was giving a rough figure for the explosive content only (which is actually 519g, a bit over 500g) and used that for RE because I didn't bother doing the original math. I'm glad I didn't bother because it illustrates why this conversation is a waste of time pretty clearly.

I'm leaving this conversation because it's a gigantic waste of time since you're obviously not engaging in good faith. For example, you could easily have done the calc yourself right there to see that the NEQ was between 2 and 3 M67s to see if the point actually stood instead of trying to use the total PBXN-110 weight to launch for an ill fated "Gotcha moment". If you were engaging in good faith (ie. facts of the matter were actually of importance to the opinion you hold) that's a check you definitely would have done, because the comparison would have some value to you. There have been a few other examples in both threads that should have been red flags, like quibbling over picking a HX77 over a 40M, but I figured you'd google a few things and accept that your positions are just flat out wrong. Clearly that's not going to happen so I'm out.

Peace out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did, actually.

This isn't 2 shots... everything MRAP/BRDM and above takes at least 3 shots(pretty sure MRAP takes even more than BRDM) of basic LAT.  Even by your straw-grasping "logic"... current state of AT-armor interaction is not fun.

Balance is not good and your opinion is no more than "nuh-uh."  Disabling vehicles being and kind of "mini objective" is for armored vehicles; not soft-skinned trucks...etc.  Almost nobody goes out of their way to recover a (especially transport) truck that has its tires stabbed out and likely broken engine as well.

Nothing "fun" about logistic vehicles eating rocket(when one man only has one AT rocket) and driving off like it never got hit.

The only relevant case in which less-tough trucks can be less-good is in case of solo basecampers; but the reality is that server rules exist and maps can be tweaked to counter it. (or just clear out the route before driving logi truck out of main, past the early game, to ensure safety like people who use their brain)  Not to mention mines already do a better job than AT; an AT camping main is an AT not doing much else.
 

Quote

Because it means LAT isn't able to deal with unarmored truck(since it just smokes and drives away while you try to reload HE-frag, which doesn't do anything to it anyway).  Even *if* you shoot from the front...logi smokes and drives away.

APCs(and MRAPs) are already way too tanky against LATs(and HATs depending on vehicle) yet LATs can't even kill a truck effectively...


Considering the fact that you simply refused to read my post; you have failed, again.
Oh no, there was no argument; you were never capable of arguing.

Finally, since you like to pretend to have an argument - your second attempt at dodging burden of proof failed; you conceded on all points you failed to prove.

 

Quote

880g NEQ. Still comfortably between two and three M67s (620 and 930g). The explosive content of PBXN-110 is the HMX which is only 88% of the 590g - I was giving a rough figure for the explosive content only (which is actually 519g, a bit over 500g) and used that for RE because I didn't bother doing the original math. I'm glad I didn't bother because it illustrates why this conversation is a waste of time pretty clearly.

I'm leaving this conversation because it's a gigantic waste of time since you're obviously not engaging in good faith. For example, you could easily have done the calc yourself right there to see that the NEQ was between 2 and 3 M67s to see if the point actually stood instead of trying to use the total PBXN-110 weight to launch for an ill fated "Gotcha moment". If you were engaging in good faith (ie. facts of the matter were actually of importance to the opinion you hold) that's a check you definitely would have done, because the comparison would have some value to you. There have been a few other examples in both threads that should have been red flags, like quibbling over picking a HX77 over a 40M, but I figured you'd google a few things and accept that your positions are just flat out wrong. Clearly that's not going to happen so I'm out.

Peace out.

Still ignoring the design of casing and power of fragmentation/shrapnel.

The crux of the matter is you're so wrong that you're trying to divert the "discussion" all over the place in attempt to hide that fact.

You were so desperate you would bet on yourself driving such a truck IRL and I called you out on your bluff.
Once again, find a few army connections and let's test it out.  Pick that time when army needs to dump ammo in middle east.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting tired of seeing the same names posting complete drivel over and over again. 

 

Keep it on topic. Final warning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×