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Zagnaniy

Heavy sniper as in the game Project Reality

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Hello!
I would like to see the role of "Heavy Sniper" in the game "Squad" as in the game Project Reality. At the moment, only the Canadian faction has a rifle with a sliding bolt.

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While it  would be fun it would not be very useful. It is very hard to operate as a sniper in Squad since its very easy to spot. Most snipers are killed after just a few shots. And the DMR:s fills the roles as sniper quite well. Even the SVD can without too much training drop a guy at 400-500 meters with one shot and shots beyond that are very rare.

The Timberwolf has a very flat trajectory which makes it easier to shot at longer ranges since the ranging doesnt have to be that accurate. But its also useless in most combat situation when a scoped AK is just as effective at <200 meters, which includes most engagements.

 

But one idea is to turn the DMR into true DMR:s, now its just the SVD that works as a DMR, the others are used as snipers. Decrease the level of magnification to 4x for all DMR and add a limited, but hard hitting. bolt action rifle with higher magnification for a sniper role.

Insurgents could have a 12.7mm scoped rifle, which are not that rare irl, with one shot (no mag) to balance it.

 

But imo the game doesnt need another lone wolf kit that encourage people to run off to the edge of the map.

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On 1/7/2020 at 6:22 AM, Pluto is a planet said:

While it  would be fun it would not be very useful. It is very hard to operate as a sniper in Squad since its very easy to spot. Most snipers are killed after just a few shots. And the DMR:s fills the roles as sniper quite well. Even the SVD can without too much training drop a guy at 400-500 meters with one shot and shots beyond that are very rare.

The Timberwolf has a very flat trajectory which makes it easier to shot at longer ranges since the ranging doesnt have to be that accurate. But its also useless in most combat situation when a scoped AK is just as effective at <200 meters, which includes most engagements.

 

But one idea is to turn the DMR into true DMR:s, now its just the SVD that works as a DMR, the others are used as snipers. Decrease the level of magnification to 4x for all DMR and add a limited, but hard hitting. bolt action rifle with higher magnification for a sniper role.

Insurgents could have a 12.7mm scoped rifle, which are not that rare irl, with one shot (no mag) to balance it.

 

But imo the game doesnt need another lone wolf kit that encourage people to run off to the edge of the map.

This. This kit doesn't add anything to the game. It only serves to help one guy get kills and work alone. It doesn't really play into the teamplay aspect of the game that makes up the whole experience.

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For me nothing was more satisfying than playing a ghillie/heavy sniper in Arma KOTH. So an addition of such a class would be really cool in Squad.

 

A heavy sniper kit would add a lot to the game. If you are able to penetrate light armor vehicles and take out the driver or be able to disable the vehicle then it would really be a useful and satisfying class to play. If this kit will allow people to accurately shoot over a large distance, then it will also serve as an intel gathering class which can be used for spotting and disrupting the enemy.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Chinchilla said:

For me nothing was more satisfying than playing a ghillie/heavy sniper in Arma KOTH. So an addition of such a class would be really cool in Squad.

 

A heavy sniper kit would add a lot to the game. If you are able to penetrate light armor vehicles and take out the driver or be able to disable the vehicle then it would really be a useful and satisfying class to play. If this kit will allow people to accurately shoot over a large distance, then it will also serve as an intel gathering class which can be used for spotting and disrupting the enemy.

 

 

 

 

It wouldn't though!!!! Even in Arma KOTH it did absolutely nothing. It doesn't help the team. You can say that you will "scout" but that is the same excuse that every marksman does. "I promise you guys! I'll be useful!!!" The game doesn't need this kind of thing. Just because you think it is cool doesn't mean that it adds anything to the game other than you having something that you can have fun with. There should be zero encouragement for lone wolf type kits in the game. I play exclusively squad lead and know for certain that I don't want one of my rifles sitting on a hill 800 yards from the objective that I'm attacking. I need that extra body on the point. In need that extra hand for bandaging. I need them with the SQUAD!!! It seems that many people forget or simply don't understand the scope or point of this game.

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9 hours ago, Chinchilla said:

 If this kit will allow people to accurately shoot over a large distance, then it will also serve as an intel gathering class which can be used for spotting and disrupting the enemy.

Nah… 99% of players would not pass any Intel. They Will just get in the server, go to a populated Squad where they can get the kit they need. And then go do their own thing.

 

At the start of the round round some would say "Squad lead, I´m going to scout ahead for enemy forces"..."I´ll take the high ground"....and then they wont say anything for the rest of the round.

 

Just like the combat engineer, scout, dmr,... 

 

this game is has enough lonewolfing.

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I don't think lone wolfing has much to do with the marksman kit. As others have said, the scoped assault rifles are about as effective as the DMRs at downing enemies at most ranges encountered in Squad. If I were to go lonewolfing, I would take the optic rifleman kit for the ammo bag, or optic medic for the self healing. The marksmen kits have a tendency to run out of ammo long before I need to back off of a good position, and damage sway greatly reduces a marksman's effectiveness. The assault rifles are also more versatile. I can more effectively move from position to position and engage enemies along the way with an AK or M4. 

 

What the marksman kits do encourage is setting up wide crossfires, which I think is what most folks see as lonewolfing. The INS marksman in the tower south of Refinery on Al Basrah for instance is covering the outside of Refinery while his squadmates clear the buildings. That's good teamwork, even better if there's communication. I don't care if someone wants to play marksman, but as an SL I will put them where I need them. Usually with medic support and an AR. AR and marksman are a great combo as AR tends to get pinned down at long ranges and a marksman can counter effectively, while a marksman alone can't deal with a rush on the point that an AR can shut down. The problem isn't the kit, it's SLs not knowing what to do with them.

Edited by pinko

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18 hours ago, Geebus said:

I play exclusively squad lead and know for certain that I don't want one of my rifles sitting on a hill 800 yards from the objective that I'm attacking. I need that extra body on the point. In need that extra hand for bandaging. I need them with the SQUAD!!! It seems that many people forget or simply don't understand the scope or point of this game.

So tell the marksman where you want him. Put him in a fireteam that provides overwatch or set up a crossfire the enemy will have trouble dealing with. It can be on the point if you need the bodies to cap, just find a spot with some elevation and they'll be effective. 

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The proper way to use a marksman is to provide fire support for the squad. The role should be deployed in a similar way as a MG and should work fairly close to the squad. When defending the marksman can cover certain critical approach routes and deny the enemy access to an area. Preferably from a well hidden position around 200 meters from the point. When attacking the Marksman can provide support slightly behind the squad by spotting and engaging enemies that poses a threat to the squad.

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The amount of wishful thinking Squad community is capable of can never be overstated.

Edited by MultiSquid

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On 2020-01-10 at 6:49 PM, Nightingale87 said:

Nah… 99% of players would not pass any Intel. They Will just get in the server, go to a populated Squad where they can get the kit they need. And then go do their own thing.

 

At the start of the round round some would say "Squad lead, I´m going to scout ahead for enemy forces"..."I´ll take the high ground"....and then they wont say anything for the rest of the round.

 

Just like the combat engineer, scout, dmr,... 

 

this game is has enough lonewolfing.

The kits aren't the problem with lone wolfing, poor leadership is the problem. If there's no coherent plan, your squad will do whatever they think is best. If a player isn't communicating voluntarily, just periodically ask them what they see. Usually it's just a matter of having not developed the habit for giving call outs. If they don't have a mic or refuse to talk, you can always kick them. If you need different kits, tell them to change ASAP. Again, you can kick if they don't comply. If they want to play a kit and you don't have any reason for them not to, then what's the problem? Send out fireteams to help those with the so-called "lone wolf" kits accomplish their objectives. Help them blow up that FOB, or lock down a wide killzone. Tell the scout or engineer where you want mines and where you don't. The kits are tools for the SL to use just like any other. Communication and leadership are required to get the most out of them, just like everything else.

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18 minutes ago, pinko said:

The kits aren't the problem with lone wolfing, poor leadership is the problem. If there's no coherent plan, your squad will do whatever they think is best. If a player isn't communicating voluntarily, just periodically ask them what they see. Usually it's just a matter of having not developed the habit for giving call outs. If they don't have a mic or refuse to talk, you can always kick them. If you need different kits, tell them to change ASAP. Again, you can kick if they don't comply. If they want to play a kit and you don't have any reason for them not to, then what's the problem? Send out fireteams to help those with the so-called "lone wolf" kits accomplish their objectives. Help them blow up that FOB, or lock down a wide killzone. Tell the scout or engineer where you want mines and where you don't. The kits are tools for the SL to use just like any other. Communication and leadership are required to get the most out of them, just like everything else.

I see what you mean. The problem is that the kind of tactics you describe put too much stress on the SL and is really not necessary. 

 

If you have a squad of new players then YES.... definetely. 

 

But by now most players realice that staying with the Squad is not really the best thing you can do. Most competitive squads are kind of together only a short part of the round. Sporadically getting together to perform a specific action, but optimally disgregating into 3, 4 or even more sub-groups according to the requirements of the battlefield. 

 

Lonewolfing exists, not because of a lack of discipline or command, but because it´s actually useful. I have a good hat/lat in my squad (and you realice about that usually in the first 20 seconds in the game with a fe words he says), then go ahead and do your thing. He doesn´t need the squad, the squad would actually be a burden for him because he would move more slowly and be more easily spotted.

 

Same thing with combat engineer. Once an enmy fob has been found, a good Combat engineer detaches itself from squad and starts his own "sidequest" (as somebody very accurately called it) hunting it down. For the same reasons, alone.

 

Having an always permanent respawn point, and the ability to do so in a very short time, VERY close to the action means that most squad members only need their squad sporadically, and squad needs its members only sporadically.

 

Lonewolfing exists because the environment has made it VERY useful.

 

Then of course you just have autistic players who are not good at all and run around doing nothing useful. But i´m obviously not referring to that.

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2 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

I see what you mean. The problem is that the kind of tactics you describe put too much stress on the SL and is really not necessary. 

Only necessary if you want to win ;) 

 

3 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

But by now most players realice that staying with the Squad is not really the best thing you can do. Most competitive squads are kind of together only a short part of the round. Sporadically getting together to perform a specific action, but optimally disgregating into 3, 4 or even more sub-groups according to the requirements of the battlefield.

Yea, this is spot on. The way I manage it as an SL is to create sensible fireteams with a good kit mix for the objectives that present themselves, and update fireteams as conditions change. For instance; that LAT will need a rifleman's ammo bag to finish off the Abrams; the DMR or AR will want a medic nearby for heals and revives. It's easy enough to do, as you're already using the strat screen to drop the marker for the Abrams and the compass point for the fireteam. That way, everyone has an idea of where they are meant to be based on their compass, map, and position of their fireteam members. 

 

Or just play with folks you know will play their roles and support one another without instruction :D Otherwise, leave a lot of room in your plan for noobs to do noob things and teaching them to do the right thing. 

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On 1/7/2020 at 3:47 AM, Zagnaniy said:

Hello!
I would like to see the role of "Heavy Sniper" in the game "Squad" as in the game Project Reality. At the moment, only the Canadian faction has a rifle with a sliding bolt.

I'm going to be a snarky shitter and tell you that the bolt on all the rifles slide.

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For some reason, some of you thought that a heavy sniper would constantly run alone. Why?
He will not storm the buildings and go there first, but such a sniper has a place to be in real life!

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Let's give everyone bolt action rifles. Oh right it's been done it's called postscriptum

 

Edited by Smee

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