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Squad has become too "gamey" and meta.

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1 hour ago, Nightingale87 said:

The reason for people playing wrecklessly is not the ability of everybody to revive, but the quickness with which they can be back in action immediately.

 

The proof of that is that many people don´t even wait to be revived. Not even by the regular rifleman that they have 10mts away. Furthermore, giving up is a VERY EFFECTIVE TACTIC; because the sooner you give up and respawn, the sooner you will be attacking and flanking the position where they shot you from and back on the cap.

 

Having everybody able to revive but only medics able to bring them up to full "combat effectiveness" is a great mechanic to keep the squad together. The problem is that all that is deluded in a meta that is only about running gunning, dying spawning repeating.

It is only effective because everyone does it. As soon a more organized squad appears that really tries to revive and keep people in the fight as long as possible things change. Because in the end the respawners will run low on tickets. And reviving is also an effective way to keep the attack going. Having the medic to pick up people will keep the squad together longer and it will be more effective than with constant respawns, because then people arrives to the combat individually and the squad is no longer a unit but a group of individual players.

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Medic trains usually come from a FOB. Without the numbers, it's rare to be able to sustain casualties and sustain an attack at the same time before being mobbed by respawns.

Edited by Good-Try Greg

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10 hours ago, Pluto is a planet said:

It is only effective because everyone does it. As soon a more organized squad appears that really tries to revive and keep people in the fight as long as possible things change. Because in the end the respawners will run low on tickets. And reviving is also an effective way to keep the attack going. Having the medic to pick up people will keep the squad together longer and it will be more effective than with constant respawns, because then people arrives to the combat individually and the squad is no longer a unit but a group of individual players.

I´m sorry but I don´t agree.

 

I understand what you say, but Squad has been around for some time now, and people tend to play the best they can. So the fact that it has drifted to a much more frequent use of the respawn than the staying together and reviving is, for me, evidence that this is effective not because everyone does it, but that everyone does it because it´s effective

 

What´s more, in previous versions (ab)use of respawn was less common than now. When rallies weren´t permanent and the last spawn on the rally was teken and there was a medic around, everybody waited because otherwise it meant respawning back at main or a far fob.

 

I even remember very clearly developing that kind of gameplay. After v13 I found that most of the time  it wasn´t worth  the waiting for somebody to pick me up because of the time wasted. 

 

I´m sorry but the idea that "Respawners" will run low on tickets doesn´t add up. The way I see it, the best way to keep an attack going is having people respawn as quickly as posible. and keep the pressure until objective falls.

 

And then finally, another point you make takes us to another VERY RELATED topic. You argue that respawners will come to combat one by one not as a part of a squad but as an individual player. Well, in that case I also think that is not necessarily less effective. 

In the most competitive Squad being a part of a squad only means OCASSIONALLY closing in to the SL´ or another membe´s position to perform a specific task such as drop a rally, ask a fireman for ammo, or get some healing, and then setting off again to do their own thing. So the best squads in SQUAD are a low cohesion low dependency kind of organism. Whereas in PR the squad is a HIGH cohesion High dependency organism. 

 

Why do the most competitive players play like this? Well, because different environments recreate different conditions and people have to develop different skills and ways to adapt the best posible way.

Edited by Nightingale87

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On 1/21/2020 at 6:42 PM, zombie326 said:

Most people seem to like the new revival system - But tbh I'm not that big of a fan, I think it removed a lot of responsibility from the medic and has given players a safety net to do stupid risky stuff on the battlefield, it allows them to get greedy looking for kills without having proper consequences because they can just get picked up by whinging at a nearby teammate - It feels like it's contributed to the increased pace of matches massively and helped to turn matches into a bit of a cluttered mess

New revival system is far less of an issue as people used to just pick up teammate's, or even enemies', medic kit and revive people anyway.  This is just Squad doing the same thing without letting people take others' kit.

Could be easily solved by not allowing medics to heal themselves(as it was in Project Reality, so medics were restricted to relying on other medics or their own patches to keep themselves healthy).

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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5 hours ago, EcchiRevenge said:

New revival system is far less of an issue as people used to just pick up teammate's, or even enemies', medic kit and revive people anyway.  This is just Squad doing the same thing without letting people take others' kit.

Could be easily solved by not allowing medics to heal themselves(as it was in Project Reality, so medics were restricted to relying on other medics or their own patches to keep themselves healthy).

 

You could never pick people's medic kits up in Squad :P

 

 

Also I can't see how not allowing medics to heal themselves would affect the gameplay, it would just mean the medics will all be wandering around looking for other medics when the mortars land

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On 1/2/2020 at 5:19 AM, Pluto is a planet said:

 I agree that the game can be played in a less casual way, but its also worth mentioning that its so easy to spot and kill people in Squad that its hard to be cautious and avoid being shot. So most of the time a more viable tactic is to just overwhelm the enemy and let the medics take care of the casualties.

 

With the large influx of new players the gameplay have become more casual, its a bless and a curse that squad is becoming popular, but im sure that things will improve with a more experienced community. A team with a Coordination, communication and tactic is so much more efficient and when people realizes that the gameplay will become less casual.

 

We had for ex a run on Kamdesh inv as attackers where we surrounded the flag but didnt attacked until all squads where in position. As a bonus the defenders left the flag to attack us, only to be killed and the flag fell just minutes after. Squad is a very complex game with a lot of tools for a highly tactical teamplay and cool strategies. But its up to the players to make use of it.

 

I don't really have the same optimism as you but I think the game can be fixed through a community mod. Maybe the PR guys can make a mod to make it more hard-core to what it used to be. 

 

some of the crucial things that have contributed to what OP is talking about:

 

- Easy and unlimited spawns on Rally points. 

 

- Everyone being able to revive each other rather than just medics. Encourages squads to be more reckless with their lives. Also punishes squad cohesion because before the entire squad would want to stay close to medics who would usually stick closer to squad lead. Thus, squads would stick together. 

 

- People figuring out the optimal meta game of driving around and putting habs every where. This is currently too easy. Especially with choppers around now. This is mostly a balance issue which can be fixed by requiring more squad members to be near a squad lead or increasing the supply cost of HABs so a single logi cannot put down multiple HABs. It doesn't really make sense how a single chopper that small can carry both the construction material for a HAB and all that ammo. Helicopters should be a means of reinforcing HABs not constructing new ones (unless you make multiple chopper runs or have multiple choppers unloading supplies into a radio) 

 

- The new drone and artillery features which further punishes any defensive play. Also makes Habs and radios too easy to find. 

- The engineer class who is encouraged to go ninja and blow up enemy radios. I doubt combat engineers have a role in real life to sneak into enemy bases like they are Solid Snake and blow up things. Right now combat engineer is the ninja role. 

Edited by warrior6

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59 minutes ago, zombie326 said:

 

You could never pick people's medic kits up in Squad :P

 

 

Also I can't see how not allowing medics to heal themselves would affect the gameplay, it would just mean the medics will all be wandering around looking for other medics when the mortars land

That's...the point.  People did it in PR.

It makes medic kit less of a lonewolf kit with infinite heals taken away(since you can't decrease its patch number without unnecessarily affecting number of revives) and encourages squad to have more than one medic(or have medic be more mindful about taking damage).

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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2 minutes ago, EcchiRevenge said:

That's...the point.  People did it in PR.

It means medic kit is less of a lonewolf kit with infinite heals and encourages squad to have more than one medic(or have medic be more mindful about taking damage).

 

I didn't even play PR so I'm not sure how I was meant to know, 90% of the people who bring up PR are just trying to sound smart lol

 

Your medics would just be getting multikilled, you'd also always require 2 medics which can be a pain, even after thousands of hours I can't sometimes convince someone to take that 1x medic kit without kicking someone - I get your point though it would stop players from just using it to heal themselves, but I'm not sure how common those players are, I never pick the medic kit just to heal myself I'd rather just pick a more fun kit - And I'm not sure if making them seek out another medic when they get shot would actually improve their teamplay, they'll just go running off to find themselves a medic when half of the squad needs healing

 

Also my entire point was that it gives players a mental safety net, and makes them think they can get away with risking their life to get a shot on some enemies because you can just get anyone to revive you   

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28 minutes ago, zombie326 said:

 

I didn't even play PR so I'm not sure how I was meant to know, 90% of the people who bring up PR are just trying to sound smart lol

 

Your medics would just be getting multikilled, you'd also always require 2 medics which can be a pain, even after thousands of hours I can't sometimes convince someone to take that 1x medic kit without kicking someone - I get your point though it would stop players from just using it to heal themselves, but I'm not sure how common those players are, I never pick the medic kit just to heal myself I'd rather just pick a more fun kit - And I'm not sure if making them seek out another medic when they get shot would actually improve their teamplay, they'll just go running off to find themselves a medic when half of the squad needs healing

 

Also my entire point was that it gives players a mental safety net, and makes them think they can get away with risking their life to get a shot on some enemies because you can just get anyone to revive you   

That explains why your ideas are no good.  PR is important part of squad's origin so...you're supposed to at least hear about it from Squad being often (inaccurately) referred to as "spiritual successor" of it.

"multikilled" - sounds like a gitgud problem, for enemies too if they're killing your 1 medic multiple times without wiping your squad.
"require 2 medics" - also a gitgud problem, could just work with another squad; but that is an option - choice between more firepower and more safety.
If you can't convince someone to take a medic kit right now(with all of the advantages it still has despite grenade being taken away from a certain faction's medic); leave server because that game is going to be a shitshow anyway.

They can't run very fast if heavily injured and are likely to get shot to death anyway.  If they're running off to find another medic - that's teamplay, inter-squad cooperation for the win.

Players do enough of that without any medic around...it's because they're not punished enough for taking hits/dying.
Which is even more reason to punish single medic for taking hits/dying; make medic more likely to go down (assuming medic plays too much like rambo) to drain the squad of patches, soon they will not have the "safety net"(as other scrubs in squad take hits/waste their own patches, and medic keep dying due to pretending to be rambo yet not being able to heal to full hp)...if they survive that long.

That also gives more power to rifleman ammobag, which can only be a good thing.  That plus incentive for 2 medics per squad is great because a squad consisting of only/too many special(kit)snowflakes should suffer as intended.

You can even pretend none of that happens and only focus on the fact that it kills lonewolf potential of medic kit; that alone makes Squad less "gamey and meta" so it's a win anyway.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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43 minutes ago, EcchiRevenge said:

That explains why your ideas are no good.

"multikilled" - sounds like a gitgud problem, for enemies too if they're killing your 1 medic multiple times without wiping your squad.
"require 2 medics" - also a gitgud problem, could just work with another squad; but that is an option - choice between more firepower and more safety.
If you can't convince someone to take a medic kit right now(with all of the advantages it still has despite grenade being taken away from a certain faction's medic); leave server because that game is going to be a shitshow anyway.

They can't run very fast if heavily injured and are likely to get shot to death anyway.  If they're running off to find another medic - that's teamplay, inter-squad cooperation for the win.

Players do enough of that without any medic around...it's because they're not punished enough for taking hits/dying.
Which is even more reason to punish single medic for taking hits/dying; make medic more likely to go down (assuming medic plays too much like rambo) to drain the squad of patches, soon they will not have the "safety net"(as other scrubs in squad take hits/waste their own patches, and medic keep dying due to pretending to be rambo yet not being able to heal to full hp)...if they survive that long.

That also gives more power to rifleman ammobag, which can only be a good thing.  That plus incentive for 2 medics per squad is great because a squad consisting of only/too many special(kit)snowflakes should suffer as intended.

You can even pretend none of that happens and only focus on the fact that it kills lonewolf potential of medic kit; that alone makes Squad less "gamey and meta" so it's a win anyway.

 

Wow.

 

It's easy to see why most of this game's  thoughtful community are dropping like flies, along with the poor developer design choices the community is full of internet argument trolls which are part of the reason why I only play 10hrs a week now and why most of my Steam friends barely play anymore - You'll struggle to find cooperative teammates anymore...

It's turning into a shitshow, I knew I shouldn't have bothered coming to the forums  ---- Your replies are an utter joke and your're scraping the bottom of the barrel for things you can come up with to hold up your flimsy argument 

 

Switching servers never helps, they're all just as useless - Simply suggesting to switch servers shows me you don't play enough to properly understand the current state of the in-game community 

 

Incentive for 2 medics? No mate you'll get the opposite effect, you'll end up with even less people wanting to pick medic - Like I said it's already hard to get people to take both medic kits 

 

Like I said your medics will just be bunching up and getting multikilled, no matter how much you 'git gud' - Maybe you should 'git gud' and learn to keep your medics spread apart - If your entire squad is in 1 tiny area you'll get your entire squad wiped in the space of 40 seconds

 

You play havoc the idea of splitting the medics up the squad into fireteams, now that it's impossible to allow them to get shot - People won't play it if you make them sit at the back avoiding all contact because they can't afford to get shot

 

Focusing on it killing lonewolf potential? You were the one focusing on that  -------- My entire argument was that I want them to remove anyone being able to revive a teammate because the fact anyone can revive gives the average player a mental safety net to take more risks with fewer consequences during skirmishes ffs! 

Edited by zombie326

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45 minutes ago, zombie326 said:

 

Wow.

 

It's easy to see why most of this game's  thoughtful community are dropping like flies, along with the poor developer design choices the community is full of internet argument trolls which are part of the reason why I only play 10hrs a week now and why most of my Steam friends barely play anymore - You'll struggle to find cooperative teammates anymore...

It's turning into a shitshow, I knew I shouldn't have bothered coming to the forums  ---- Your replies are an utter joke and your're scraping the bottom of the barrel for things you can come up with to hold up your flimsy argument 

 

Switching servers never helps, they're all just as useless - Simply suggesting to switch servers shows me you don't play enough to properly understand the current state of the in-game community 

 

Incentive for 2 medics? No mate you'll get the opposite effect, you'll end up with even less people wanting to pick medic - Like I said it's already hard to get people to take both medic kits 

 

Like I said your medics will just be bunching up and getting multikilled, no matter how much you 'git gud' - Maybe you should 'git gud' and learn to keep your medics spread apart - If your entire squad is in 1 tiny area you'll get your entire squad wiped in the space of 40 seconds

 

You play havoc the idea of splitting the medics up the squad into fireteams, now that it's impossible to allow them to get shot - People won't play it if you make them sit at the back avoiding all contact because they can't afford to get shot

 

Focusing on it killing lonewolf potential? You were the one focusing on that  -------- My entire argument was that I want them to remove anyone being able to revive a teammate because the fact anyone can revive gives the average player a mental safety net to take more risks with fewer consequences during skirmishes ffs! 

It was an interesting debate and then you started being disrespectful.

 

The fact that you didn´t play PR is something that should fill you with curiosity. After all, Squad wouldnt exist without PR. Maybe you are unaware of how Squad came to be and how Squad copied most of the basic PR mechanics.

 

Now. Trying to get the debate back on track. If you had to choose only one of the following to explain Why squad has become too gamey, what would it be?

 

A) Rallies being permanent with a very small overrun radius.

 

B) All squad members being able to revive, rather than just medics.

 

 

 

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Just now, Nightingale87 said:

It was an interesting debate and then you started being disrespectful.

 

The fact that you didn´t play PR is something that should fill you with curiosity. After all, Squad wouldnt exist without PR. Maybe you are unaware of how Squad came to be and how Squad copied most of the basic PR mechanics.

 

Now. Trying to get the debate back on track. If you had to choose only one of the following to explain Why squad has become too gamey, what would it be?

 

A) Rallies being permanent with a very small overrun radius.

 

B) All squad members being able to revive, rather than just medics.

 

 

 

 

You're both exactly the same so don't try and act all high and mighty about it now - Don't expect me to be patient with you if your replies aren't giving any respect in the first place that's hilarious  

 

Also don't just gang up on me because I disagreed with one of your previous comments 

 

Yup, get it back on track now that you've got your word in lol

 

I'd say B hinders the game the most - FOB placement is more of an issue than rallypoints - I'm literally playing a game now where all of the FOB's are slapdashed down way too close to the objective and the entire team zurgs into the capzone from a single direction - Or they're driving directly into the enemy capzone to plop down a FOB

 

The meta used to consist more of placing the attacking FOB at a distance as a backup and for the team to spawn,  then using rallies to attack the objective directly using it as the primary spawn for the squad - Now that we have persistent ammo a FOB is seen as required for any kind of effective attack due to AT's, medics and people who expend lots of ammo frequently needing to resupply

 

I would like rallypoints to be more useful and seen more of a primary spawn for the squad, such as having their own ammo supply with a similar resupply mechanic to the FOB so FOB's aren't placed right next to enemy capzones for ammo crates, rallies encourage squads to come in from individual directions and keep the squad together 

 

If the devs made rallies less effective in any way then SL's will be even less inclined to use them and more inclined to spamming fobs

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10 hours ago, zombie326 said:

 

Wow.

 

It's easy to see why most of this game's  thoughtful community are dropping like flies, along with the poor developer design choices the community is full of internet argument trolls which are part of the reason why I only play 10hrs a week now and why most of my Steam friends barely play anymore - You'll struggle to find cooperative teammates anymore...

It's turning into a shitshow, I knew I shouldn't have bothered coming to the forums  ---- Your replies are an utter joke and your're scraping the bottom of the barrel for things you can come up with to hold up your flimsy argument 

 

Switching servers never helps, they're all just as useless - Simply suggesting to switch servers shows me you don't play enough to properly understand the current state of the in-game community 

 

Incentive for 2 medics? No mate you'll get the opposite effect, you'll end up with even less people wanting to pick medic - Like I said it's already hard to get people to take both medic kits 

 

Like I said your medics will just be bunching up and getting multikilled, no matter how much you 'git gud' - Maybe you should 'git gud' and learn to keep your medics spread apart - If your entire squad is in 1 tiny area you'll get your entire squad wiped in the space of 40 seconds

 

You play havoc the idea of splitting the medics up the squad into fireteams, now that it's impossible to allow them to get shot - People won't play it if you make them sit at the back avoiding all contact because they can't afford to get shot

 

Focusing on it killing lonewolf potential? You were the one focusing on that  -------- My entire argument was that I want them to remove anyone being able to revive a teammate because the fact anyone can revive gives the average player a mental safety net to take more risks with fewer consequences during skirmishes ffs! 

Funny how you're trying to shift the blame onto me instead of onto developers who made game too casual to the point where the solid PR crowd mostly left.

You don't have any right to be claiming any of that.
Also, if you're losing 24/7 against "internet trolls" then the problem is you being wrong, not everyone else is trolling.

If you actually played Squad then you would know that avoiding "learning friendly" servers helps about 25% of time.

Nope, you're just imagining things.  It's never hard to get people to take medic kits, at least not when people are not total shitters. (once again, switch servers/sides if they are total shitters).  Medic kits are straight up better rifleman kits because of the massive number of patches and, currently, self-heal, combined with magnified optics. (unless you're playing insurgents, which gets foregrip-equipped AMD, which isn't too bad compared to naked AKM)

"bunching up" - that's what you get with bunching up while enemies are nearby... again a gitgud problem.
Maybe you should gitgud and learn to play.

Nobody said medic should avoid all contact.
That's why medics have magnified optics...etc.

Focusing on killing lonewolf potential is what I suggest you to focus on as you're clearly incapable of arguing any other point aside from regurgitating your already-debunked attempts.  Once again, killing lonewolf potential -> make game less "gamey" + promotes teamwork -> win.

Ironically, what you're suggesting is actually what would really tell medic to avoid all contact...while I offered a good compromise that was proven to have worked in the old days.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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10 hours ago, zombie326 said:

 

You're both exactly the same so don't try and act all high and mighty about it now - Don't expect me to be patient with you if your replies aren't giving any respect in the first place that's hilarious  

 

Also don't just gang up on me because I disagreed with one of your previous comments 

 

Yup, get it back on track now that you've got your word in lol

 

I'd say B hinders the game the most - FOB placement is more of an issue than rallypoints - I'm literally playing a game now where all of the FOB's are slapdashed down way too close to the objective and the entire team zurgs into the capzone from a single direction - Or they're driving directly into the enemy capzone to plop down a FOB

 

The meta used to consist more of placing the attacking FOB at a distance as a backup and for the team to spawn,  then using rallies to attack the objective directly using it as the primary spawn for the squad - Now that we have persistent ammo a FOB is seen as required for any kind of effective attack due to AT's, medics and people who expend lots of ammo frequently needing to resupply

 

I would like rallypoints to be more useful and seen more of a primary spawn for the squad, such as having their own ammo supply with a similar resupply mechanic to the FOB so FOB's aren't placed right next to enemy capzones for ammo crates, rallies encourage squads to come in from individual directions and keep the squad together 

 

If the devs made rallies less effective in any way then SL's will be even less inclined to use them and more inclined to spamming fobs

Nobody is teaming up against you.

 

If somebody disagrees with you, he isn´t against you, he just happens to disagree. 

 

And if two or more people disagree with you and agree with each other, that doesn´t mean they are "ganging up on you".

 

I know internet is a place for salt and toxicity. It´s usually in us not only outside, so we should all try to calm down and dont take things personal.

 

Now. Going back to the topic. We obviously agree on something. The game has become too gamey. Let´s work from there...

 

The problem is that you think it´s for very different reasons I do. This is interesting. 

 

In my case, I´m basing my arguments on the experience from PR and Squad both. In Squad some things were moving towards a more simulation gameplay, while some others were going the opposite way. From those things that move the game towards a more gamey style you put it on medics being able to revive everybody, and I put it on rallies (and fobs) being too powerful and allowing people to get back in action almost immediately. 

 

What I present as "evidence" is PR. In PR "everybody" (as long as they have a medic kit) can revive anybody. But at the same time, rallies are not permanent. They are by far a secondary spawning means. They are easily overrun (so are fobs). And PR is much more realistic than Squad. The meta is much more interesting much less arcady and gamey. 

So I consider then, that overpowered spawning points is much more relevant than everybody being able to revive when it comes to making the game "gamey"

 

 

This is of course just some of the reasons for Squad being gamey (I consider there are 2 big ones and a secondary 3rd)

Edited by Nightingale87

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11 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

If you had to choose only one of the following to explain Why squad has become too gamey, what would it be?

 

A) Rallies being permanent with a very small overrun radius.  << Permanency more imporant than Radius, imo.

 

B) All squad members being able to revive, rather than just medics.

i can't decide as both are Bad.

B) is ridiculous, should never have been a thing, instantly degrading the value of Medics.

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5 hours ago, EcchiRevenge said:

Funny how you're trying to shift the blame onto me instead of onto developers who made game too casual to the point where the solid PR crowd mostly left.

You don't have any right to be claiming any of that.
Also, if you're losing 24/7 against "internet trolls" then the problem is you being wrong, not everyone else is trolling.

If you actually played Squad then you would know that avoiding "learning friendly" servers helps about 25% of time.

Nope, you're just imagining things.  It's never hard to get people to take medic kits, at least not when people are not total shitters. (once again, switch servers/sides if they are total shitters).  Medic kits are straight up better rifleman kits because of the massive number of patches and, currently, self-heal, combined with magnified optics. (unless you're playing insurgents, which gets foregrip-equipped AMD, which isn't too bad compared to naked AKM)

"bunching up" - that's what you get with bunching up while enemies are nearby... again a gitgud problem.
Maybe you should gitgud and learn to play.

Nobody said medic should avoid all contact.
That's why medics have magnified optics...etc.

Focusing on killing lonewolf potential is what I suggest you to focus on as you're clearly incapable of arguing any other point aside from regurgitating your already-debunked attempts.  Once again, killing lonewolf potential -> make game less "gamey" + promotes teamwork -> win.

Ironically, what you're suggesting is actually what would really tell medic to avoid all contact...while I offered a good compromise that was proven to have worked in the old days.

Bunching up happens every match, again do you even play?? No matter who you tell to 'git gud' people will always be bunching up and dying 

 

I'll claim it because I've been playing this game for almost 4khrs - The community has slowly degraded into toxic sludge before my eyes and the game has gone to shit ffs!

 

When did I even say anything about joining learning friendly servers? Again you're just chatting pure shit 

 

Switching servers? That doesn't solve anything, every server is the same atm they're all awful - Like I said simply suggesting to switch servers just shows me you've no idea what the state of the in-game community is like 

 

You are really trying to twist and bend arguments because you can't deal with someone simply disagreeing with you 

 

Nobody's opinion is 'Wrong' - They're just suggestions you fools

 

Add me on steam because it seems you need some some teaching - My steam is zombie326 same as the one on here

 

Edited by zombie326

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3 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

Nobody is teaming up against you.

 

If somebody disagrees with you, he isn´t against you, he just happens to disagree. 

 

And if two or more people disagree with you and agree with each other, that doesn´t mean they are "ganging up on you".

 

I know internet is a place for salt and toxicity. It´s usually in us not only outside, so we should all try to calm down and dont take things personal.

 

Now. Going back to the topic. We obviously agree on something. The game has become too gamey. Let´s work from there...

 

The problem is that you think it´s for very different reasons I do. This is interesting. 

 

In my case, I´m basing my arguments on the experience from PR and Squad both. In Squad some things were moving towards a more simulation gameplay, while some others were going the opposite way. From those things that move the game towards a more gamey style you put it on medics being able to revive everybody, and I put it on rallies (and fobs) being too powerful and allowing people to get back in action almost immediately. 

 

What I present as "evidence" is PR. In PR "everybody" (as long as they have a medic kit) can revive anybody. But at the same time, rallies are not permanent. They are by far a secondary spawning means. They are easily overrun (so are fobs). And PR is much more realistic than Squad. The meta is much more interesting much less arcady and gamey. 

So I consider then, that overpowered spawning points is much more relevant than everybody being able to revive when it comes to making the game "gamey"

 

 

This is of course just some of the reasons for Squad being gamey (I consider there are 2 big ones and a secondary 3rd)

 

Yeah the game has changed a lot, in ways that have changed the experience completely from what it used to be like

 

-Everyone being able to revive 

 

-The way FOB's are used is a massive issue atm - Most SL's are plopping them down right next to the enemy capzone resulting in the whole team zurging in from one direction 

 

- I personally think for attacking the rally should be the primary spawn and the FOB should be the secondary, people used to use FOB's like this:

Build FOB further away in a safe hidden location and use the rally to attack objectives directly - If the rally is lost then the distant FOB can be respawned on and the squad can then reposition and place a new rally and attack from a new angle

---

But after persistent ammo was added the medics, LAT's and people who shoot a lot need ammo frequently and the FOB/vehicles are the only places to get ammo from now (Rifleman ammo is not reliable especially if your squad is only running with 1 rifleman now that there are so many different classes) -

This has resulted in SL's placing FOB's as close as they can for nearby ammo supply and turning a lot of matches into cluttered messes, with little room to maneuver because the FOB will be lost if they don't create a solid wall to prevent the defenders from pushing onto it and overrunning it

 

- We'll just have to simply disagree about which one is more relevant, they all contribute together like a badly mixed drink lol 

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I think the devs should experiment with making the game more punishing in many different ways whilst they're still in early access - The game has lost it's sense of tension which is what made it so appealing and enjoyable to me

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The underlying issue is the failure of squads to be the backbone of the infantry

 

Squads themselves aren't totally blameless. There's only 4 infantry squads on a team who have to split their strength over two objectives, spreading your team very thin. Given that, you can see how team spawns like FOBs become more necessary for filling in the gaps.

 

The other side of it is more or less what zombie's been saying, FOBs are OP. They're only good because they suck up the infantry for their own strength. The FOB is the meta, and any squad tactics have to contort themselves around them to be viable. I've really got nothing but contempt for FOB strategy as long as it has such an obvious zero-sum effect on squad tactics.

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2 hours ago, zombie326 said:

Bunching up happens every match, again do you even play?? No matter who you tell to 'git gud' people will always be bunching up and dying 

 

I'll claim it because I've been playing this game for almost 4khrs - The community has slowly degraded into toxic sludge before my eyes and the game has gone to shit ffs!

 

When did I even say anything about joining learning friendly servers? Again you're just chatting pure shit 

 

Switching servers? That doesn't solve anything, every server is the same atm they're all awful - Like I said simply suggesting to switch servers just shows me you've no idea what the state of the in-game community is like 

 

You are really trying to twist and bend arguments because you can't deal with someone simply disagreeing with you 

 

Nobody's opinion is 'Wrong' - They're just suggestions you fools

 

Add me on steam because it seems you need some some teaching - My steam is zombie326 same as the one on here

 

You clearly don't play because it doesn't happen every match.  Once again, it's a gitgud problem.

I've played PR way longer so you have no place here.
You got what you ****ing deserve.

You didn't; it sounded like you did.  Pure shit is what you're trying to pass off as facts here and I won't allow it.

It solves the problem 25% of time.
Sounds like you never tried to switch servers nor have you played much; which explains why you're vehemently trying to argue with feelings.

Right back at you; considering you have no argument in first place.

When did I call your opinion "wrong"?  I called your ideas bad and your claims wrong; your opinion is simply irrelevant.

BOKU Haram on steam.  You have much to learn.  Maybe I'll spare a moment to teach you when game stops running like shit.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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At this point is quite obvious you guys are not going to see eye to eye over each others opinions. Might be time to agree to disagree and move on from the debate - Instead of continuing it and snowballing into a silly 1 up argument.

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Getting whiplash from those posts. Squad explicitly prioritizes competitive design. 'Git gud' tryharding is completely the wrong attitude to approach PR from.

Edited by Good-Try Greg

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1 hour ago, Good-Try Greg said:

Getting whiplash from those posts. Squad explicitly prioritizes competitive design. 'Git gud' tryharding is completely the wrong attitude to approach PR from.

"tryharding" - commonly used word when people complain that others get better result from simply knowing how to play/how to abuse broken game mechanics.

No such thing as "tryhard" in this kind of game - you either play properly or you fail, nothing in-between unless you're extremely lucky, on an imbalanced map/faction, or use hacks.

Not to mention you don't even need to be good at fps games(because I'm not, fps mechanical skill can only get you so far with very limited healing/ammo available - unless you're the scoped medic); you just need to join the side with the most op weapons + scopes:

I go back to play one round of Squad after not having touched it for months and landed on Canadian team.  The shitty netcode and extra scopes lets people get away with a lot of bullshit as long as positioning is good.
WGvgpNB.png
I wasn't "tryharding" at all - there was no waiting for medic(why should I when giving up only lose 1 ticket unlike 2 in PR - 1 for just going down, 1 for giveup) - just insta-giveup because HAT only gets 4 mags + 1 AT rocket(HE rockets can't even kill trucks properly) and I need to resupply anyway.
(the real "safety net" is actually low-cost giveup, permanent rallies, and HABs that can still function despite being barely 150m away from a full enemy squad)


So I shot the BMP(because you only get one AT rocket on that kit), killed an AA truck, blew up 4 people with HE rockets, and shot 20+ more of enemy team just by running in-between caps instead of attacking/defending caps(aside from eliminating a doubleneutral and ressing a blue medic on cap) with my squad, on my own.  No skill involved because I have fullauto scoped canadian-m4 and relatively-flat trajectory AT weapon...(rangefinding? sight adjustment?  wtf is that?)
Just as squad devs intended - the perfect casual experience on an imbalanced faction that squad devs don't have to work on. ;)
"muh competitive design" - ****ing lol

Also perfect example of how to avoid a shitty game by switching servers(if you were on the other team); because you're obviously not going to be able to switch sides as op faction almost always have more people.


This game is broken in so many ways and I wish I was there to destroy all of the filthy casuals that suggested devs to turn squad into this kind of thing.  (too bad game was severely lacking features in V9 that I just didn't care enough to do it)

 

This is a good time to stop all gameplay-related development; and all the devs with free time go play Squad and PR for at least 100 hours each.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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8 hours ago, zombie326 said:

I think the devs should experiment with making the game more punishing in many different ways whilst they're still in early access - The game has lost it's sense of tension which is what made it so appealing and enjoyable to me

Sadly they wont. They are happy with the amount of people it attracts (and how it sells) and will just try to make changes so more people stay to populate servers.

 

All we can ask for is supported mods to make the game more punishing. Vanilla is beyond "simulation minded" players.

 

4 hours ago, EcchiRevenge said:

I wasn't "tryharding" at all - there was no waiting for medic(why should I when giving up only lose 1 ticket unlike 2 in PR - 1 for just going down, 1 for giveup) - just insta-giveup because HAT only gets 4 mags + 1 AT rocket(HE rockets can't even kill trucks properly) and I need to resupply anyway.
(the real "safety net" is actually low-cost giveup, permanent rallies, and HABs that can still function despite being barely 150m away from a full enemy squad)

This is true. Waiting for a medic more than 30 seconds is usually sub-optimal way of playing the game competitively.

 

Give up, respawn, reload, go flank the dude that killed you/go get back in the cap. THIS IS SQUAD.... sadly.

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On 1/9/2020 at 4:35 PM, Pastah said:

IMO, they should remove hud marking entirely and all fireteam leader marking. Only the squad leader should be giving fireteams attack markers, etc.

Well, no.

The obvious counterargument is a squad with a Styker, it's two crewmen, and seven dismounts.  Ideally the SL would be among the dismounts.  So, someone in the vehicle needs to be FTL to mark since he is fighting the vehicle and needs to communicate with the driver at the very least.  

This is even more important in for instance an armor squad of more than one vehicle.

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