Jump to content
BANGHART

Squad has become too "gamey" and meta.

Recommended Posts

First off I'd like to thank offworld for all the hard work they've done and making such a great game. I dont want to insult them or seem unappreciative of all they've done, I just want to voice my opinion on the state of the game and how I feel it has changed from what it used to be.

 

Recently I have lost a lot of interest in this game and have been thinking about how much has changed from the original versions of Squad. I have come to a few conclusions id like to share and see others opinions on.

 

1. Players understand the game modes and the maps so well that this game is no longer a milsim. Death does not seem to really matter and holds no weight unless it is endgame and your team is running out of tickets. If you are pinned down for example and your SL wants you to move and you say, hey I cant im pinned down, 9/10 the SL will command you to just die and respawn. Nothing matters anymore other than rushing to objectives. None of the decisions made anymore involve "safety". You just go from point A to point B if you die who cares just respawn.

 

2. Too much information and speed. You cant have a hab down for more than a minute without the enemy finding you and attacking. There is constant fighting at all times now. Before there was vehicles all movement had to really be planned out, because if you died it was a huge problem for everyone. Now if you die or you are moving troops to the wrong spot it means nothing at all. Just hop in a vehicle and drive wherever you want. 

 

3. No more long range engagements. This was the bread and butter of Squad and where it shined the most IMO. There is no point in fighting at long range anymore. Because the vehicles makes infantry movement a non issue, engaging at long range is nothing but a waste of ammo. Also because there is a huge lack of awareness among moving infantry now days, you aren't even aware of other infantry unless you randomly cross paths or meet them at an objective. Before vehicles there was a much greater emphasis on where enemy squads were moving and engaging them outside of objective areas. This was a big part of the game that is completely gone IMO. 

 

Ive noticed this game is way different than what it used to be and not for the better. A huge portion of players are now treating this game no different than they would with any other fps game. I dont understand why most people even play this game to be honest, there are many games that do pure shooting action better. This is not even a competitive game in my opinion. And yet the player base treats this game like its counterstrike???

 

That being said id like to see a 1 life game mode or something like that. Something that will bring the realism back that made this game so great. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I agree that the game can be played in a less casual way, but its also worth mentioning that its so easy to spot and kill people in Squad that its hard to be cautious and avoid being shot. So most of the time a more viable tactic is to just overwhelm the enemy and let the medics take care of the casualties.

 

With the large influx of new players the gameplay have become more casual, its a bless and a curse that squad is becoming popular, but im sure that things will improve with a more experienced community. A team with a Coordination, communication and tactic is so much more efficient and when people realizes that the gameplay will become less casual.

 

We had for ex a run on Kamdesh inv as attackers where we surrounded the flag but didnt attacked until all squads where in position. As a bonus the defenders left the flag to attack us, only to be killed and the flag fell just minutes after. Squad is a very complex game with a lot of tools for a highly tactical teamplay and cool strategies. But its up to the players to make use of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, much has been lost over time.

 

1.I am not really interested in whether it is by definition a milsim. More important to me is the balance / asymmetric gameplay on all maps.

 

2. You are absolutely right, the general speed in which the match takes place is much too high. The only thing missing is the action/points per minute in the score borad (pls not).

 

3. Rarely is there a struggle between the objectives. Most of the time they fight on the objective itself or shortly before it, which I find quite a pity.

The main problem are the many instant spawn's directly or very close to the action. Vehicles are used far too rarely as troop transporters, which is actually one of the main tasks of the APC's besides fire support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, BANGHART said:

First off I'd like to thank offworld for all the hard work they've done and making such a great game. I dont want to insult them or seem unappreciative of all they've done, I just want to voice my opinion on the state of the game and how I feel it has changed from what it used to be.

 

Recently I have lost a lot of interest in this game and have been thinking about how much has changed from the original versions of Squad. I have come to a few conclusions id like to share and see others opinions on.

 

1. Players understand the game modes and the maps so well that this game is no longer a milsim. Death does not seem to really matter and holds no weight unless it is endgame and your team is running out of tickets. If you are pinned down for example and your SL wants you to move and you say, hey I cant im pinned down, 9/10 the SL will command you to just die and respawn. Nothing matters anymore other than rushing to objectives. None of the decisions made anymore involve "safety". You just go from point A to point B if you die who cares just respawn.

 

2. Too much information and speed. You cant have a hab down for more than a minute without the enemy finding you and attacking. There is constant fighting at all times now. Before there was vehicles all movement had to really be planned out, because if you died it was a huge problem for everyone. Now if you die or you are moving troops to the wrong spot it means nothing at all. Just hop in a vehicle and drive wherever you want. 

 

3. No more long range engagements. This was the bread and butter of Squad and where it shined the most IMO. There is no point in fighting at long range anymore. Because the vehicles makes infantry movement a non issue, engaging at long range is nothing but a waste of ammo. Also because there is a huge lack of awareness among moving infantry now days, you aren't even aware of other infantry unless you randomly cross paths or meet them at an objective. Before vehicles there was a much greater emphasis on where enemy squads were moving and engaging them outside of objective areas. This was a big part of the game that is completely gone IMO. 

 

Ive noticed this game is way different than what it used to be and not for the better. A huge portion of players are now treating this game no different than they would with any other fps game. I dont understand why most people even play this game to be honest, there are many games that do pure shooting action better. This is not even a competitive game in my opinion. And yet the player base treats this game like its counterstrike???

 

That being said id like to see a 1 life game mode or something like that. Something that will bring the realism back that made this game so great. 

 

 

+1

 

I agree almost absolutely.

 

The only point I disagree with is that vehicles are to blame for constant action.

 

In my opinion the problem for that is PERMANENT RALLIES

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

+1

 

I agree almost absolutely.

 

The only point I disagree with is that vehicles are to blame for constant action.

 

In my opinion the problem for that is PERMANENT RALLIES

+1

Well, you hit the nail on the head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, BANGHART said:

First off I'd like to thank offworld for all the hard work they've done and making such a great game. I dont want to insult them or seem unappreciative of all they've done, I just want to voice my opinion on the state of the game and how I feel it has changed from what it used to be.

 

Recently I have lost a lot of interest in this game and have been thinking about how much has changed from the original versions of Squad. I have come to a few conclusions id like to share and see others opinions on.

 

1. Players understand the game modes and the maps so well that this game is no longer a milsim. Death does not seem to really matter and holds no weight unless it is endgame and your team is running out of tickets. If you are pinned down for example and your SL wants you to move and you say, hey I cant im pinned down, 9/10 the SL will command you to just die and respawn. Nothing matters anymore other than rushing to objectives. None of the decisions made anymore involve "safety". You just go from point A to point B if you die who cares just respawn.

 

2. Too much information and speed. You cant have a hab down for more than a minute without the enemy finding you and attacking. There is constant fighting at all times now. Before there was vehicles all movement had to really be planned out, because if you died it was a huge problem for everyone. Now if you die or you are moving troops to the wrong spot it means nothing at all. Just hop in a vehicle and drive wherever you want. 

 

3. No more long range engagements. This was the bread and butter of Squad and where it shined the most IMO. There is no point in fighting at long range anymore. Because the vehicles makes infantry movement a non issue, engaging at long range is nothing but a waste of ammo. Also because there is a huge lack of awareness among moving infantry now days, you aren't even aware of other infantry unless you randomly cross paths or meet them at an objective. Before vehicles there was a much greater emphasis on where enemy squads were moving and engaging them outside of objective areas. This was a big part of the game that is completely gone IMO. 

 

Ive noticed this game is way different than what it used to be and not for the better. A huge portion of players are now treating this game no different than they would with any other fps game. I dont understand why most people even play this game to be honest, there are many games that do pure shooting action better. This is not even a competitive game in my opinion. And yet the player base treats this game like its counterstrike???

 

That being said id like to see a 1 life game mode or something like that. Something that will bring the realism back that made this game so great. 

 

 

Agreed. The original game that first hit Steam was way more punishing, unforgiving and plus most of the textures were 4k so it had a realistic and organic feel to it.

 

On the other hand though Squad is still the only game in the genre short of PR that has AAS mode plus not too long ago the innovation of RAAS. In addition, besides ARMA3 it still has large maps that allow for strategies and tactics to some extent. So in that respect it's still the only game in town so to speak.

 

The biggest problem I've seen over the entire timeline of the game is the fact that the evolution of the game has always been this odd juxtaposition of contradictory features from both the realistic and arcade genre's that often times have actually just canceled each other out.

 

Not only that but pretty much every major change to the game has been reactive not proactive. Rushing, HAB farming, role cheesing, buddy rally... you name it... always a reaction to loudest voices on Reddit.

 

Plus you see things left in the game that should have been removed when other features were implemented. The sprinting speed and stamina come to mind for example.

 

At this point honestly vehicles and deaths should just have all their ticket values completely removed considering how disposable people treat them and their lives anyway. Just make the game about the flags.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 It seeks to bridge the large gap between arcade shooter and military simulation.

 

4head

 

not even a dedicated milsim game you're just angry you aren't good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said and points you see constantly being reiterated by people. The pace of the game has become way too fast, there is too much constant action making it both no longer as exciting as well that it makes it a nightmare for most SLs as there is too much to keep track of. Too much information to the players, I remember back when friendly icons on the map didnt show that they died and really miss it. Only the SL or medic could see it and that is how it should be, this game is suppose to be about communication right? well SL or medic should be the ones relaying that info. This and many more changes have all been done to make the game more casual and accessible to players, sadly at the consequence of making it no longer the spiritual successor it set out to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Kalterre said:

 It seeks to bridge the large gap between arcade shooter and military simulation.

 

4head

 

not even a dedicated milsim game you're just angry you aren't good.

I'm good (former GE CSGO, 2-3+kd PUBG tier 2 comp player, routinely ran 10+kd infantry only in Squad when I played), and I don't want Squad to be a milsim game.

Everything he's saying is correct. Squad has twice the active playerbase that it had a year ago. The growth occurred in May 19 and coincides with Alpha 13; precisely when the game was casualised and made more gamey. It also coincides with both me and all the other mature and serious players I know absolutely losing interest in Squad as a title. It seems certain to me that a decision was made to shift to a more casual direction in the first quarter of 2019, that the decision was probably an attempt to capitalise on the failure of Battlefield 5 and that the decision was probably to respond to the development of WWIII and Hell Let Loose.

Squad has traded its authenticity for popularity.

Edited by Vewt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Vewt said:

Squad has traded its authenticity for popularity.

Vewt just explained it in one sentence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I'm gone throw my hat in, by saying, Go and play Project Reality. Cause Squad is quite clearly not it. If anything, seems like casual is name of the game for squad and its future. Silly us, for trying... oh well! I guess we're not wanted in the sandbox anymore! 

Edited by BatSithCrazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 2020-01-01 at 7:24 PM, BANGHART said:

That being said id like to see a 1 life game mode or something like that. Something that will bring the realism back that made this game so great.

This is probably up to modders, for instance the SquadOps crew or anyone else up to the challenge. A cohesive realism mod would be fantastic, but AFAIK there's not much point in doing it now when base game systems are still in heavy development. 

On 2020-01-01 at 7:24 PM, BANGHART said:

And yet the player base treats this game like its counterstrike???

It would be great if they treated it like Counter-strike: holding angles, communicating enemy movement, coordinating assaults with grenades, doing everything you can to stay alive and control the map.. The simile you're looking for is COD or Battlefield. You know, the ones where you respawn every 30 seconds :P 

Edited by pinko
misquote

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/2/2020 at 11:55 AM, Zylfrax791 said:

At this point honestly vehicles and deaths should just have all their ticket values completely removed considering how disposable people treat them and their lives anyway. Just make the game about the flags.

 

Vehicles ticket loss reduction was unfortunate. I remember when tanks were worth 60 tickets. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, budder8818 said:

Vehicles ticket loss reduction was unfortunate. I remember when tanks were worth 60 tickets. 

I dont mind the reduction in tickets per vehicle, vehicles are easy to destroy in this game because AT weaponry is extremely precise and effective, they probably didnt want vehicles driving around getting taken out with ease depleting mass amounts of tickets

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, you ok said:

I dont mind the reduction in tickets per vehicle, vehicles are easy to destroy in this game because AT weaponry is extremely precise and effective, they probably didnt want vehicles driving around getting taken out with ease depleting mass amounts of tickets

That´s a strange logic.

 

So you say they didn´t want vehicles driving around getting taken out and depleting mass amout onf tickets....

 

so...

 

We reduce the ticket cost and...

 

we have vehicles driving around getting taken out and losing just a few tickets.

 

 

I think objective should be NOT to have vehicles being used wrecklessly.

 

So instead of having vehicles driving around and getting taken down with ease, mantain the ticket cost...or even Increase it, And then, through natural selection  and community pressure you will have more respoisible crews driving vehicles correclty (as per realistic bttlefield)

 

ON the other hannd, I don´t think AT weapons are very precise. The problem is that IN GENERAL, life is worth nothing in this game. Neither are AT weapon kits. So, it is a very productive and valid tactic to have lonewolfing hats and lats hunting enemy vehicles. If the ticket cost of a tank is say 60 tickets. That means that the LONEWOLFING hat can try and take out the tank and die 59 tanks, because when he finally gets it, he will be 1 ticket (+cre) on top.

 

The Bottomline is that the game has become an arcade shooter because life is worth nothing in this game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

That´s a strange logic.

 

So you say they didn´t want vehicles driving around getting taken out and depleting mass amout onf tickets....

 

so...

 

We reduce the ticket cost and...

 

we have vehicles driving around getting taken out and losing just a few tickets.

 

 

I think objective should be NOT to have vehicles being used wrecklessly.

 

So instead of having vehicles driving around and getting taken down with ease, mantain the ticket cost...or even Increase it, And then, through natural selection  and community pressure you will have more respoisible crews driving vehicles correclty (as per realistic bttlefield)

 

ON the other hannd, I don´t think AT weapons are very precise. The problem is that IN GENERAL, life is worth nothing in this game. Neither are AT weapon kits. So, it is a very productive and valid tactic to have lonewolfing hats and lats hunting enemy vehicles. If the ticket cost of a tank is say 60 tickets. That means that the LONEWOLFING hat can try and take out the tank and die 59 tanks, because when he finally gets it, he will be 1 ticket (+cre) on top.

 

The Bottomline is that the game has become an arcade shooter because life is worth nothing in this game.

You forgot one thing however. In the beginning of vehicles there used to be a punishment mechanic in the form of a personal cool down where you and your squadmates couldn't claim another vehicle for awhile after you lost one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed this after Mutahar was released. I remember having so much more fun with the map back when it first came out. Now everyone has it figured out, even on RAAS. Just rush all your armor up the middle of the map and an infantry squad or two, take Police Station/Intersection/Ammo Storage, then either defend it for the rest of the match or stomp to the end. It is the same thing every time. Same with Talil. I love the game but sometimes you wish you could just slow down a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or slow down a lot. Would like to try playing with no rallies or HABs, just using vehicles to get around. That would make people think twice about getting shot or blown up :P 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-01-04 at 3:46 AM, Nightingale87 said:

That´s a strange logic.

 

So you say they didn´t want vehicles driving around getting taken out and depleting mass amout onf tickets....

 

so...

 

We reduce the ticket cost and...

 

we have vehicles driving around getting taken out and losing just a few tickets.

 

 

I think objective should be NOT to have vehicles being used wrecklessly.

 

So instead of having vehicles driving around and getting taken down with ease, mantain the ticket cost...or even Increase it, And then, through natural selection  and community pressure you will have more respoisible crews driving vehicles correclty (as per realistic bttlefield)

 

ON the other hannd, I don´t think AT weapons are very precise. The problem is that IN GENERAL, life is worth nothing in this game. Neither are AT weapon kits. So, it is a very productive and valid tactic to have lonewolfing hats and lats hunting enemy vehicles. If the ticket cost of a tank is say 60 tickets. That means that the LONEWOLFING hat can try and take out the tank and die 59 tanks, because when he finally gets it, he will be 1 ticket (+cre) on top.

 

The Bottomline is that the game has become an arcade shooter because life is worth nothing in this game.

I think thats why they changed it, they didnt want the entire team being punished because irresponsible crewman were going out and getting vehicles destroyed taking half the teams tickets.  With the addition of TOWS now you can pick armor and vehicles off easy now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, you ok said:

I think thats why they changed it, they didnt want the entire team being punished because irresponsible crewman were going out and getting vehicles destroyed taking half the teams tickets.  With the addition of TOWS now you can pick armor and vehicles off easy now.

But that is wrong!

 

At least if what you want to have is a game where TEAMwork means something. 

 

By making it so that mistakes are not punished you recreate the perfect environment for irresposible people, non team players, lonewolfing, etc.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wanted to duck in and letcha know we're here, reading along, and appreciate the feedback. I'll share it over with the rest of the team to make sure they get a crack at it too. =) Can't promise that anything will come of it, but you're making some good points that should open up some discussions for us. Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Gatzby said:

Wanted to duck in and letcha know we're here, reading along, and appreciate the feedback. I'll share it over with the rest of the team to make sure they get a crack at it too. =) Can't promise that anything will come of it, but you're making some good points that should open up some discussions for us. Thank you!

Good to know!

 

Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I find vehicles way way too easy!!! They should be hard to master! Manual gears should be a thing in some vehicle  that actually would be manual, vehicles should take damage when you crash them and they should definitely cost much more tickets!!!! the new meta is to just crash your helicopter into another because only 5 tickets and it denies them a potential fob if it was 20 would this be less of a thing!! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I agree, the whole game and community feels incredibly gamey and meta, I thought it was supposed to be a milsim. I don't think it's vehicles alone that's the problem.

  • Die on purpose to move around the map faster because objectives
  • Get fireteam leader just to mark things and not actually command a fireteam
  • Direct chat to squad leaders because devs haven't made a proper split-ear radio system
  • People rush to the same key points in a map to win games
  • SLs use markers to label contacts and directions
  • Everyone relies on markers on map or hud
Edited by Pastah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×