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Jibroni Gibironi

Mortar Design is inherently flawed

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So apparently, in order to be able to use the mortar accurately in this game, I have to use a calculator that isn't even in the game to start with. Words cannot describe how dumb this is. Something like this should have been in the game to begin with. Since there is no actual way to range a target in the game, it makes the mortar weapon pretty much useless. :S

 

Link: The Calculator 

Edited by Jibroni Gibironi

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On 12/25/2019 at 4:38 PM, Jibroni Gibironi said:

So apparently, in order to be able to use the mortar accurately in this game, I have to use a calculator that isn't even in the game to start with. Words cannot describe how dumb this is. Something like this should have been in the game to begin with. Since there is no actual way to range a target in the game, it makes the mortar weapon pretty much useless. :S

 

Link: The Calculator 

Without the calculator you can still use a spotter to walk rounds on target. The squad lead markers can give you a +/-50m on the target. The calculator just cuts out the middleman. These calculators haven't always been around.

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math is prety easy for this calculation. Calculator is no needed even SL markers. Train brain. Ez. After some practice its realy fast and accurate

Edited by elerik

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22 minutes ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

Mortars are so useless anyway so better just ignore them completely. Only ties up resources and wastes ammo points. 

I disagree. If used properly mortars is a great asset for the team. if not for getting kills you can suppress and make the life miserable for the enemies. By adjusting the aim a bit between each shot you can cover a larger area and make the shots less predictable. The smoke rounds are also useful for concealing.

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the designers of this game don't really "design" mechanics. everything seems half done and their decisions ad-hoc.

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On 1/15/2020 at 10:31 AM, Randall172 said:

the designers of this game don't really "design" mechanics. everything seems half done and their decisions ad-hoc.

Yeah, I have to agree with you on this one, especially when it comes to the mortars. If the target is at a range that can't be measured using the mortars own internal calculator, I am basically forced to use some retarded, bootlegged calculator off the internet. The whole thing needs to be redesigned from the ground up. :S

Edited by Jibroni Gibironi

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Let's not forget the game is a MilSim. Gotta use those Forward Observer Skillz.

 

FO'ing has got to be one of the best things in the game and most rewarding things if you do it right.

  1. FO Mark the target, get a range to target from mortar position
  2. Give mortar team the warning order, which consists of direction, distance (or grid), target description, type of mission (Smoke, HE, x number of rounds)
  3. Tell the mortar team to "fire one round in adjust"
  4. Mortar tubes orient to target, first one fires a single round and calls "Shot, over"
  5. Mortar team waits 6 seconds, calls "Splash, over". This indicates to the FO that he can stick his head up and watch for impact.
  6. If the impact is off target, FO calls back in and says 'Add 100, Left 100' or whatever needs to be adjusted. Sometimes the corrections are big, and the FO needs to do some bracketing to get on target, which is just halving the adjustments for each adjustment shot.
  7. If the correction is minimal or on-target, the FO can call "Fire for Effect" which indicates to the mortar team to fire all their ammo at it.
  8. Once the adjustment is dialed in, you can save it as a pre-registered target by writing down the mils/direction next to you on a pad of paper.

The calculator just helps get the initial direction and distance, which makes the adjustment phase a little quicker.

 

I've played with some serious mortar folks and we have completely ****ed up FOBs doing this. Good for prep-bombardment before an assault team moves on them.

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Posted (edited)
On 2/24/2020 at 6:03 PM, breachofmind said:

Let's not forget the game is a MilSim. Gotta use those Forward Observer Skillz.

 

FO'ing has got to be one of the best things in the game and most rewarding things if you do it right.

  1. FO Mark the target, get a range to target from mortar position
  2. Give mortar team the warning order, which consists of direction, distance (or grid), target description, type of mission (Smoke, HE, x number of rounds)
  3. Tell the mortar team to "fire one round in adjust"
  4. Mortar tubes orient to target, first one fires a single round and calls "Shot, over"
  5. Mortar team waits 6 seconds, calls "Splash, over". This indicates to the FO that he can stick his head up and watch for impact.
  6. If the impact is off target, FO calls back in and says 'Add 100, Left 100' or whatever needs to be adjusted. Sometimes the corrections are big, and the FO needs to do some bracketing to get on target, which is just halving the adjustments for each adjustment shot.
  7. If the correction is minimal or on-target, the FO can call "Fire for Effect" which indicates to the mortar team to fire all their ammo at it.
  8. Once the adjustment is dialed in, you can save it as a pre-registered target by writing down the mils/direction next to you on a pad of paper.

The calculator just helps get the initial direction and distance, which makes the adjustment phase a little quicker.

 

I've played with some serious mortar folks and we have completely ****ed up FOBs doing this. Good for prep-bombardment before an assault team moves on them.

:| You see, this is the problem, if you are saying the calculator in the game itself helps get initial distance, well, it really doesn't at certain ranges. When the so called "FO" gives the range, this is based on the assumption that the mortar team can even calculate it to begin with. If I can't even calculate it, then this whole process you have laid out stops at step 2, because the target might as well be considered out of range. Are you getting the logic here? 

Edited by Jibroni Gibironi

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On 1.1.2020 at 8:36 PM, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

Mortars are so useless anyway so better just ignore them completely. Only ties up resources and wastes ammo points. 

I agree, especially when mortar rounds landing near your position and do no dmg at all. I just ignore them most of the time.

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On 1/1/2020 at 2:36 PM, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

Mortars are so useless anyway so better just ignore them completely. Only ties up resources and wastes ammo points. 

Well, its only a waste without consistent supply runs to the main base. And despite the inconsistent design, its still not completely useless. It depends on whose using it and how well coordinated they are. Those smoke screens are always greatly appreciated when trying to assault a position that's well fortified in a wide open field with little cover. 

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One of my introductions to mortars in the game were videos from youtube. Then tried it on the training range, figuring out how much of a difference at what distances changes make, then played with people in the game who are good with mortars. Love them.

 

I disagree that they are inherently wrong: you have an SL, who can mark range with attack marker - here is your distance; you also, if all else fails - calculate the distance yourself? Each map has scale on it, you can count the boxes, approximate +/-50 meters, fire it, as was already described above, to see how much off you are and there you go.

 

I'm not a military person, but as far as I know in RL mortars are used based on grid reference, not even necessarily by range. In which cases the mortar team manually calculates the necessary numbers based on straight line distance, elevations, etc. I believe, based on the Ops comment, that the expectation would have been to have "arty computer", like in Arma 3, where all you need is to just click on the map and you shoot.

 

We have to be either sad or thankful that at least we do not have to calculate the charges, flight times and stuff along those lines for mortars (though it would be interesting and, in that case, I'd expect a tool to be in-game of some kind).

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20 hours ago, Targor Avelany said:

One of my introductions to mortars in the game were videos from youtube. Then tried it on the training range, figuring out how much of a difference at what distances changes make, then played with people in the game who are good with mortars. Love them.

 

I disagree that they are inherently wrong: you have an SL, who can mark range with attack marker - here is your distance; you also, if all else fails - calculate the distance yourself? Each map has scale on it, you can count the boxes, approximate +/-50 meters, fire it, as was already described above, to see how much off you are and there you go.

 

I'm not a military person, but as far as I know in RL mortars are used based on grid reference, not even necessarily by range. In which cases the mortar team manually calculates the necessary numbers based on straight line distance, elevations, etc. I believe, based on the Ops comment, that the expectation would have been to have "arty computer", like in Arma 3, where all you need is to just click on the map and you shoot.

 

We have to be either sad or thankful that at least we do not have to calculate the charges, flight times and stuff along those lines for mortars (though it would be interesting and, in that case, I'd expect a tool to be in-game of some kind).

:) You know what, someone once suggested I wear an eye patch or close my eyes and count to ten, so I'll try that first..............................¬¬                           

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Posted (edited)
On 2020-03-06 at 11:31 PM, Jibroni Gibironi said:

Well, its only a waste without consistent supply runs to the main base. And despite the inconsistent design, its still not completely useless. It depends on whose using it and how well coordinated they are. Those smoke screens are always greatly appreciated when trying to assault a position that's well fortified in a wide open field with little cover. 

There is no well fortified position in front of an open field anywhere in this game though. There is always a way in by (map) design. And it's boring as hell. The map design that is. 

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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You mean like VCP?

And of course maps are designed to allow for movement, it is not desired to have a point that cannot be attacked from any direction. But they still exist. Observation point on Nanisivik is the most obvious example but there are several more, especially it you count the ones that only have a row of bushes as entry point, like Airfield on Yeho, which is super easy to defend.

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Posted (edited)
On 2/25/2020 at 12:03 AM, breachofmind said:

Let's not forget the game is a MilSim. Gotta use those Forward Observer Skillz.

 

 

Just to correct you, this game is absolutely not a MilSim, never claimed to be and never will be. That'll be up to the modders.
I do understand what you mean tho.

Edited by MikeDude

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5 hours ago, MikeDude said:

Just to correct you, this game is absolutely not a MilSim, never claimed to be and never will be. That'll be up to the modders.
I do understand what you mean tho.

Its more like a glorified, more realistic version of the Battlefield games if anything. The only thing missing is the destructible environments. 

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