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Ruplay

Solution for mortar calcs cheating (DEVS)

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As you know there is an issue in Squad that makes it possible to cheat with mortars through well known special software - mortar calculators. You do not need teamwork but marks on maps and you are able to do a pin point bombardment very fast. The issue is crucial for buildings (HUBS, FOBS), also it breaks Destruction game mode if cashes are on open space.  The problem is that it is impossible to check if person uses such software.
There is an elegant solution - implement wind in game. So every match you get two random numbers - direction and speed. For every match this two numbers applies to mortars or mortar shells to shell velocity and angle. That makes impossible to use calcs since there are no fixed values also that affects shell differently on distance. So you have to coordinate with teammates every time you change the target. It is still possible to cheat with calcs, since you are able to get this numbers by experiment, but that will take too long for good accuracy.

Edited by Ruplay

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Implementing random wind speed and direction would not help, since the mortar calculator would simply be updated to have an input for both wind speed and direction. If you hid these numbers from players then it would work. However I would like the mortar damage radius to be greatly improved before a nerf like this.

 

I would like to point out that using a mortar calculator currently isn't seen as cheating by most. I imagine the developers don't see it that way either since the mortar calculator is stickied here on the forums. That being said, I like your idea because using a mortar calculator feels very game-y and pulls me out of the experience. Having to calculate manually in game while using a spotter is just so much more fun. There's no better feeling than hitting an enemy position with accurate fire and hearing your teammates cheer.

Edited by Dufflespud

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4 hours ago, Ruplay said:

As you know there is an issue in Squad that makes it possible to cheat with mortars through well known special software - mortar calculators.

The real "cheating" in Squad has always been unassigned AFK's with full access to the command map feeding FOB locations and other intelligence to their buddies on the other team over external 3rd party VOIP programs. Heck, they could even set up their iPhones on tripods and use FaceTime. That's the real cheating problem in the game.

 

It's certainly not some mortar calculator that's not only deprecated on the bigger maps but doesn't even work on any maps with any verticality.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

The real "cheating" in Squad has always been unassigned AFK's with full access to the command map feeding FOB locations and other intelligence to their buddies on the other team over external 3rd party VOIP programs. Heck, they could even set up their iPhones on tripods and use FaceTime. That's the real cheating problem in the game.

There are a lot of problems in Squad, for sure, but you have a real problem with generating offtopic in forum threads. Btw, you can solve it easily. Try to start asap.

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13 minutes ago, Ruplay said:

There are a lot of problems in Squad, for sure, but you have a real problem with generating offtopic in forum threads. Btw, you can solve it easily. Try to start asap.

Mortar Calculator has been pinned in the forum by the staff since mortars were put in the game and yet you claim its "cheating"... Do you see how myself and others could perceive your claim to be somewhat illogical? The other poster pointed this out as well.

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Just now, Zylfrax791 said:

Mortar Calculator has been pinned in the forum by the staff since mortars were put in the game and yet you claim its "cheating"... Do you see how myself and others could perceive your claim to be somewhat illogical? The other poster pointed this out as well.

There are no logic, since I do not need your opinion in this thread. You missed "DEVS" tag in topic title of "Feedback and suggestions" section.

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i don't understand the point of a calculator, if the squad leader marks the target, the range/yardage shows up on your compass heading, and you just match the number of yards to the millirads, right? Easy Peasy. What is the external mortar "calculator" doing for anyone?

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7 minutes ago, kubikiri said:

What is the external mortar "calculator" doing for anyone?

Absolutely nothing. It's a waste of time, a distraction and it breaks your immersion anyway. Plus it's just an external nuisance and completely unreliable on maps with elevation changes especially when everything you need is already self contained within the game itself. 

 

To even make the inference that somehow its a cheat especially considering the developers made it a sticky in the forum years ago is just kind of silly. I've got some custom printed maps with specific mortar placement grids and exact ranges to specific targets, are those cheats as well?

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32 minutes ago, kubikiri said:

i don't understand the point of a calculator, if the squad leader marks the target, the range/yardage shows up on your compass heading, and you just match the number of yards to the millirads, right? Easy Peasy. What is the external mortar "calculator" doing for anyone?

SL marker is inaccurate, the error is 50 meters, also it do not give you an altitude of mortar or the target. You do not need a spotter, also.

As soon as you get a marker of HUB or FOB on open space, you put that two markers in calculator and destroy FOB/HUB in 2-3 bursts. You do need only two things with calc - your position and the target. In 10 seconds you get fully accurate millirads and angle to destroy the target. Try it on Destruction match, very usefull, expecially because defenders cannot build anything in radius of cache.

Edited by Ruplay

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13 minutes ago, Ruplay said:

Try it on Destruction match, very usefull, expecially because defenders cannot build anything in radius of cache.

Only an SL incendiary grenade can destroy a cache in Destruction mode if I'm not mistaken. Plus they're always in a building and mortars don't effect damage I thought.

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Just now, Zylfrax791 said:

Only an SL incendiary grenade can destroy a cache in Destruction mode if I'm not mistaken. Plus they're always in a building and mortars don't effect damage I thought.

You have mistaken the third time.

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8 hours ago, Ruplay said:

As you know there is an issue in Squad that makes it possible to cheat with mortars through well known special software - mortar calculators. You do not need teamwork but marks on maps and you are able to do a pin point bombardment very fast. The issue is crucial for buildings (HUBS, FOBS), also it breaks Destruction game mode if cashes are on open space.  The problem is that it is impossible to check if person uses such software.
There is an elegant solution - implement wind in game. So every match you get two random numbers - direction and speed. For every match this two numbers applies to mortars or mortar shells to shell velocity and angle. That makes impossible to use calcs since there are no fixed values also that affects shell differently on distance. So you have to coordinate with teammates every time you change the target. It is still possible to cheat with calcs, since you are able to get this numbers by experiment, but that will take too long for good accuracy.

1- The devs included it, so I wouldnt call it cheating but a feature that is not appropriate.

 

2- The tools soldiers use IRL are pretty much like this calculator. 

 

3. Mortars still need somebody finding the target, and  to supply it and the effect of the fire. So teamwork is still there.

 

4. Including wind is a very good idea. I don´t know how much it would take the devs and what "stress" it would have in general performance.

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Just now, Nightingale87 said:

1- The devs included it, so I wouldnt call it cheating but a feature that is not appropriate.

The devs didn't include anything. There is a thread that was pinned by forum moderator. Forum moderator is not a developer, it is a player.
 

Just now, Nightingale87 said:

 

2- The tools soldiers use IRL are pretty much like this calculator. 

Give calcs to all players then. Maybe even remove angle and millirads from game, make it fully automatic with one button click on map.

 

1 minute ago, Nightingale87 said:

3. Mortars still need somebody finding the target, and  to supply it and the effect of the fire. So teamwork is still there.

Actually, you cannot build mortar without FOB and FOB cannot be placed without SL. So there are still teamwork. The complexity is much more different.

 

3 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

4. Including wind is a very good idea. I don´t know how much it would take the devs and what "stress" it would have in general performance.

There will be no stress on performance. Several network packets with two numbers to be sent to each player on connection, two numbers multiply starting shell velocity and angle (probably, both of them already implemented since mortar has spread alrady).

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1 hour ago, Ruplay said:

You have mistaken the third time.

Yeah, i was thinking about insurgency mode. Nobody runs Destruction in my neck of the woods. So a mortar can destroy the cache inside a building as well huh? Very cool.

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2 hours ago, Ruplay said:

Actually, you cannot build mortar without FOB and FOB cannot be placed without SL. So there are still teamwork. The complexity is much more different.

What was the point of nit picking that dudes comment?

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2 hours ago, Ruplay said:

Give calcs to all players then. Maybe even remove angle and millirads from game, make it fully automatic with one button click on map.

All players can have calculators. 

 

A click on the map and boom....mhm….sounds a lot like the arty called by commander…. but that aint cheating...is it?

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2 hours ago, Ruplay said:

Actually, you cannot build mortar without FOB and FOB cannot be placed without SL. So there are still teamwork. The complexity is much more different.

This point is not clear. Isnt it redundant?

 

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iam still not sure why devs are making such a mystery of distances ...

We have a map with grids ... why cant we have a compass (the one to draw circles) and/or ruler

 

Iam always doing it with fingers and its mostly accurate

Edited by gshAT

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7 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

All players can have calculators. 

 

A click on the map and boom....mhm….sounds a lot like the arty called by commander…. but that aint cheating...is it?

Can have and have it are different things. All players can have aimbots, you should lobby that too?
What is the point to call commander arty a cheat? Do you use third party software for that?

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2 hours ago, Ruplay said:

Can have and have it are different things. All players can have aimbots, you should lobby that too?
What is the point to call commander arty a cheat? Do you use third party software for that?

-Now you sound confusing.

 

Anybody can have it. You said "give calcs to all players then..." Well... there it is. it´s them for the taking. 

 

The aimbot software affects the gameplay completetly (Specially if everybody had it), can be corrected with anti cheat…. the calculator doesnt´change gameplay and can´t be blocked by anti cheat.

 

Some people can stick a Little round sticker in the centre of the screen so they can shoot more quickly and more accurately from the hip. That can´t be controlled with anti cheat or wind or anything.... and everybody can do it.... do you think I´m advocating for that?

 

And I didn´t call commander arty cheating....I didnt call calcs cheating....YOU DID....

 

You are confusing and / or confused with which arguments are yours and which are others.

 

I told you in my first post. CALCULATOR isn´t cheating. Still… I think WIND is a great idea. DONE....

 

I´m under the impression you have never used the calculator and you think it has pin point accuracy. If you had used it you would realice it´s not that accurate. It´s pretty balanced actually.

Edited by Nightingale87

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4 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

Anybody can have it. You said "give calcs to all players then..." Well... there it is. it´s them for the taking. 

You misunderstood the point. Give calcs to all, mean give them in game as an in-game feature. But you say that they are already for all (out of the game). Good point here is that aimbots also here for anybody (out of the game and anybody can use it), but does that mean that aimbots isn't a cheat? Not for sure.

6 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

The aimbot software affects the gameplay completetly (Specially if everybody had it), can be corrected with anti cheat…. the calculator doesnt´change gameplay and can´t be blocked by anti cheat.

What is the way it affects the game? You start to shoot accurately with less hassle. So like with mortar calcs, isn't it? So what is the difference? Except that aimbost work for small arms and mortar calcs works for mortars.

8 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

Some people can stick a Little round sticker in the centre of the screen so they can shoot more quickly and more accurately from the hip. That can´t be controlled with anti cheat or wind or anything.... and everybody can do it.... do you think I´m advocating for that?

There are a lot of ways to cheat in game. That is why I gave a soltution only for one of them. Everybody can control gamma in monitor settings or GPU drivers, nevertheless developers locked gamma in game. Mortar calc should go the same way.

10 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

And I didn´t call commander arty cheating....I didnt call calcs cheating....YOU DID....

You are confusing and / or confused with which arguments are yours and which are others.

I didn't say anything about commander arty, you were first to mention that with "cheat" word in the same sentence. Asking about it as a cheat. What was the purpose for that, idk. But for sure that you lack of arguments.

20 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

I told you in my first post. CALCULATOR isn´t cheating. Still… I think WIND is a great idea. DONE....

Did I ask you before the first post is it a cheat? You didn't give any arguments of your position. You start with a lie of "devs approved", but then we figured out that was moderator (a player, not dev). Then you tried with "a lot of people use it", but that is not a point. Since people like to be upper hand and use any opportunity to achive that. So they will use macroses, red dots on their monitors, GPU drivers or any other software to get advantage. Calc are as precise as they can be, there are calcs that uses coords and start/end altitude, they are 98% precise and 2% is mortar spread. Probably, you use bad calc because you don't how the good one works.

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The incorrect in-game calc for mortars is one of my main reason to not operate such bs. Sure the third party calc is like an easy mode, you don't need proper communication anymore. Its likes playing battleships without ships and just drop the burst magazin pinpoint accurate on target as long you wishes to do so.

 

Did you know anyone on the field that fear the mortar impact? No one cares unless a direct hit. No one runs for cover it's pathetic ineffective and useless. Unless you hit 10+ times the same vital spot such like a HAB, then it starts to get effective but still, that isn't what mortar should do in the first place. The mortar rounds should spread more fear and have more boom and some sort of deviation in gunpowder to not land in the same position all the time.

 

btw. reading comments like "but everyone can use a third party tool" ... everyone with that attitude, don't dare you to complain about cheats even once. It's just another third party tool everyone can access. I'm sure that we all have more fun if all players start using them.

 

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İn real-life mortar crew get training for mortars but in squad you can't do that using calculators isn't wrong maybe devs should add the calculator in the game 

 

U guys want realistic game or harder than real-life experience in squad? Making squad more hardcore isn't makes more realistic. 

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I do not want accurate mortars since the mentioned problem - HUB, FOB destruction. It is so easy to mark enemy position for SL and so easy to get structures down with mortars using calc, that on some maps it is really annoying. I am fine if devs add calc in game, but make mortars limit per map (not HUB), more spread and more costs per shot.

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1 hour ago, drfreee said:

U guys want realistic game or harder than real-life experience in squad? Making squad more hardcore isn't makes more realistic. 

You're absolutely right about that. Fun is more important than realism, but the same applies to simplification.
When 1 would be very simple and 10 would be the real-life, I would put squad currently on the 3 and wish that it shifts towards the middle on the 5. That we have a sweet balanced but fun game between too simple or too real.

Edited by Phoenixstorm

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