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SCG_ErwinP

What's next?

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After helicopters, commander, some fixes, what should we expect from next patch/version?
I read "know issues" but I mean what should be new in Squad.

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Squad has some bits of content still to come, though not that much. Namely 100 player servers, attack helicopters and their accompanying counter-assets of anti-air kits, emplacements, and vehicles.

 

There's also some key missing infantry features and tools, such as backup sights, man portable ATGMs, grenade machine guns, turret-ducking, and some miscellaneous things like shotguns and combat ladders. Vehicles could also use some more goodies like thermals, automatic zeroing, commander driver control override, turning out, and functional armour additions like slats, ERA, and APS would be really nice additions, most of these I think mandatory for the game to have a realistic and complete experience. 

 

Further, the factions in the game are not exactly complete. There's a handful of vehicles, such as the BMP-3, Chinook, Lynx, Griffon, and some variants of existing vehicles that should be added before the factions can reasonably considered complete. Its also worth mentioning that US and Canadian trucks are really outdated, and could stand to be replaced with the modern versions.

 

Finally, and most importantly however, Squad is very much a game that feels, in every way, unfinished

 

There are many, many aspects and features that are imbalanced, underdeveloped, conflicting, totally not used, were originally meant as placeholders, buggy, and/or underperforming.

 

Some examples. Emplacements need an overhaul, for the most part they're far too costly, awkward, and slow relative to the pace of the game, some like the tripod HMG and SPG are frankly worthless, this could all be reworked to be much better. The insurgency gamemode needs an overhaul. The gamemodes in general need to be combined, pruned, and improved with a unifying and coherent idea in mind. Vehicle flipping and physics are placeholders. Suppression and infantry combat is not finalized. Spawn mechanics are practically placeholders, rallies change each update and are to change in tbe future. The turret stabilization feature is subject to all kinds of desync. Performance, low settings giving an advantage, LoD vs ranged combat. Blah blah blah blah.

 

I could go on forever listing more, but that would take too long and be pointless, the devs know them, there's good reason squad is in Beta in name, because it is in reality too.

 

So yeah, there's a lot in Squad's future if OWI wants to make it a truly great, and long lasting title that people will continue to play, modify, and populate for years and years to come, solidifying their name as a great studio that finishes what they start.

 

Bugs need to be gone 100%, game design needs to consistently produce fun, interesting, complex, realistic and cooperative matches by rewarding behavior that produces this and punishing behavior that is against it, all the while providing players with sufficient feedback and resources to learn and practice this behavior. All features, modes, maps, and assets need to be relevant, balanced, and conducive to this described outcome. 

 

So yeah, this is an immense task, and we are still in the phase of development where classes of vehicles are being added. Fortunately Squad already does achieve the outcome of good games more often than not, it would be dead otherwise.. it just needs more.

 

Edited by 40mmrain

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@40mmrain I didn't like the possibility of ATGM's and I'm not a favor of much automatism.

I hope some things still as they are atm.

 

I wish the houses had some things that showed there were people living there. Today the houses are completely empty, this spoils the immersion.

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8 hours ago, SCG_ErwinP said:

@40mmrain I didn't like the possibility of ATGM's and I'm not a favor of much automatism.

I hope some things still as they are atm.

 

They're key features of current infantry and armour equipment and have been that way for decades. It would be pretty disppointing to see them omitted from the game imo. 

 

US forces have had man portable ATGMs since the M47.. 1975. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M47_Dragon

 

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23 hours ago, 40mmrain said:

Squad has some bits of content still to come, though not that much. Namely 100 player servers, attack helicopters and their accompanying counter-assets of anti-air kits, emplacements, and vehicles.

 

There's also some key missing infantry features and tools, such as backup sights, man portable ATGMs, grenade machine guns, turret-ducking, and some miscellaneous things like shotguns and combat ladders. Vehicles could also use some more goodies like thermals, automatic zeroing, commander driver control override, turning out, and functional armour additions like slats, ERA, and APS would be really nice additions, most of these I think mandatory for the game to have a realistic and complete experience. 

 

Further, the factions in the game are not exactly complete. There's a handful of vehicles, such as the BMP-3, Chinook, Lynx, Griffon, and some variants of existing vehicles that should be added before the factions can reasonably considered complete. Its also worth mentioning that US and Canadian trucks are really outdated, and could stand to be replaced with the modern versions.

 

Finally, and most importantly however, Squad is very much a game that feels, in every way, unfinished

 

There are many, many aspects and features that are imbalanced, underdeveloped, conflicting, totally not used, were originally meant as placeholders, buggy, and/or underperforming.

 

Some examples. Emplacements need an overhaul, for the most part they're far too costly, awkward, and slow relative to the pace of the game, some like the tripod HMG and SPG are frankly worthless, this could all be reworked to be much better. The insurgency gamemode needs an overhaul. The gamemodes in general need to be combined, pruned, and improved with a unifying and coherent idea in mind. Vehicle flipping and physics are placeholders. Suppression and infantry combat is not finalized. Spawn mechanics are practically placeholders, rallies change each update and are to change in tbe future. The turret stabilization feature is subject to all kinds of desync. Performance, low settings giving an advantage, LoD vs ranged combat. Blah blah blah blah.

 

I could go on forever listing more, but that would take too long and be pointless, the devs know them, there's good reason squad is in Beta in name, because it is in reality too.

 

So yeah, there's a lot in Squad's future if OWI wants to make it a truly great, and long lasting title that people will continue to play, modify, and populate for years and years to come, solidifying their name as a great studio that finishes what they start.

 

Bugs need to be gone 100%, game design needs to consistently produce fun, interesting, complex, realistic and cooperative matches by rewarding behavior that produces this and punishing behavior that is against it, all the while providing players with sufficient feedback and resources to learn and practice this behavior. All features, modes, maps, and assets need to be relevant, balanced, and conducive to this described outcome. 

 

So yeah, this is an immense task, and we are still in the phase of development where classes of vehicles are being added. Fortunately Squad already does achieve the outcome of good games more often than not, it would be dead otherwise.. it just needs more.

 

 

This is an answer! And not that lazy messages from someone who just wanna make big posts count number. Thanks @40mmrain.

Edited by thy (bra)

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10 hours ago, SCG_ErwinP said:

I wish the houses had some things that showed there were people living there. Today the houses are completely empty, this spoils the immersion.

I don't like the idea of an immovable dining table cluttering up a room. Generally furniture is going to be bad from a gameplay standpoint, assuming that it would be a static object that impedes movement, line of sight, emplacements, etc.

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On 12/12/2019 at 2:57 PM, 40mmrain said:

They're key features of current infantry and armour equipment and have been that way for decades. It would be pretty disppointing to see them omitted from the game imo. 

 

US forces have had man portable ATGMs since the M47.. 1975. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M47_Dragon

 

I feel like a man-portable ATGM would be a bit OP because unconventional forces likely wouldn't have them. Yes, they have them in real life, but if it is not standard issue equipment or what you would very commonly find on a battlefield it is highly unlikely to be in the game. 

 

In addition, man-portable ATGMs would take away literally all the challenge and difficulty of taking out armor. Taking out the tracks on a tank and getting close enough to use it should be a challenge that is not always easy to pull off. 

 

If they did put man-portable ATGMs in the game it should be only a single shot without having to rearm and only 1 kit per team with reduced magazines like the engineer for carrying such a heavy weapon. Vehicles already have a shit load of things that can kill them. 

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On 19/12/2019 at 4:30 PM, Nossa said:

I feel like a man-portable ATGM would be a bit OP because unconventional forces likely wouldn't have them. Yes, they have them in real life, but if it is not standard issue equipment or what you would very commonly find on a battlefield it is highly unlikely to be in the game. 

 

In addition, man-portable ATGMs would take away literally all the challenge and difficulty of taking out armor. Taking out the tracks on a tank and getting close enough to use it should be a challenge that is not always easy to pull off. 

 

If they did put man-portable ATGMs in the game it should be only a single shot without having to rearm and only 1 kit per team with reduced magazines like the engineer for carrying such a heavy weapon. Vehicles already have a shit load of things that can kill them. 

If I can remember in PR, that atgm only have 1 shot and takes 4 - 5 rifleman ammo pouch to reload. It does the job, but it is an supply demanding item. The entire team of 50 can only have 1 person playing that role as well...

Edited by RB79BALL

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On 2019-12-19 at 8:30 AM, Nossa said:

I feel like a man-portable ATGM would be a bit OP because unconventional forces likely wouldn't have them. Yes, they have them in real life, but if it is not standard issue equipment or what you would very commonly find on a battlefield it is highly unlikely to be in the game. 

 

In addition, man-portable ATGMs would take away literally all the challenge and difficulty of taking out armor. Taking out the tracks on a tank and getting close enough to use it should be a challenge that is not always easy to pull off. 

 

If they did put man-portable ATGMs in the game it should be only a single shot without having to rearm and only 1 kit per team with reduced magazines like the engineer for carrying such a heavy weapon. Vehicles already have a shit load of things that can kill them. 

 

Worry that man portable ATGMs would be OP is healthy, but I think they could be very well balanced. Consider this food for thought.

 

1) Vehicles as they stand right now are kind of weak in an unrealistic way and could stand to be buffed. They're too easy to immobilize, they have no thermals, they dont have ballistic compensators, turret stabilization could be much better, and their HE rounds are way weaker than they should be. Having better AT for infantry would balance this.

 

2) Just like not every map had Tanks, not every map must have man portable ATGMs. Javelin or Metis-M on Talil would feel like a fair fight, the open terrain favours vehicles. But on a more closed map with lighter vehicles, perhaps not.

 

3) 100 player servers will make ATGMs more balanced. There will be more armour pieces active per side, and more infantry who are not equipped with AT, as long as the number of HAT kits isn't increased. Even if the ATGM HAT kit is very strong, it just wouldnt have enough volume to actually make armour feel underpowered.

 

imo it would enrich the game with new tools, that are not only fun to use but can allow for more scenarios to be fair and balanced.

 

For example. Imagine a map where one side gets a bunch of ATGM kits and only light armour, and the other side gets no ATGM kits, but a bunch of heavy armour. Could be cool.

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I could not care less about 100p, the reason? simple, Squad is too chaotic as it is right now, 100p will make it even worse

I prefer less people on the server, just to have that fake feeling that Squad is not so fast paced.. yeah, I like to pretend it is not

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22 hours ago, EA_SUCKS said:

I could not care less about 100p, the reason? simple, Squad is too chaotic as it is right now, 100p will make it even worse

I prefer less people on the server, just to have that fake feeling that Squad is not so fast paced.. yeah, I like to pretend it is not

This is needed....too many vechs now for 40 vs 40

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Optimization existing content, USMC,PLA and MEC factions, JET's,maybe (wish it can be possible as  lovely BF2\PR successor),maybe some basic AI for Coop\singleplayer, more balance bringing earliest systems,when medic was only, who can revive, making heli be easy to destroy,so pilot now can fear more fly low and far on maps and etc.Much work to do

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On 12/11/2019 at 4:30 PM, 40mmrain said:

Squad has some bits of content still to come, though not that much. Namely 100 player servers, attack helicopters and their accompanying counter-assets of anti-air kits, emplacements, and vehicles.

 

There's also some key missing infantry features and tools, such as backup sights, man portable ATGMs, grenade machine guns, turret-ducking, and some miscellaneous things like shotguns and combat ladders. Vehicles could also use some more goodies like thermals, automatic zeroing, commander driver control override, turning out, and functional armour additions like slats, ERA, and APS would be really nice additions, most of these I think mandatory for the game to have a realistic and complete experience. 

 

Further, the factions in the game are not exactly complete. There's a handful of vehicles, such as the BMP-3, Chinook, Lynx, Griffon, and some variants of existing vehicles that should be added before the factions can reasonably considered complete. Its also worth mentioning that US and Canadian trucks are really outdated, and could stand to be replaced with the modern versions.

 

Finally, and most importantly however, Squad is very much a game that feels, in every way, unfinished

 

There are many, many aspects and features that are imbalanced, underdeveloped, conflicting, totally not used, were originally meant as placeholders, buggy, and/or underperforming.

 

Some examples. Emplacements need an overhaul, for the most part they're far too costly, awkward, and slow relative to the pace of the game, some like the tripod HMG and SPG are frankly worthless, this could all be reworked to be much better. The insurgency gamemode needs an overhaul. The gamemodes in general need to be combined, pruned, and improved with a unifying and coherent idea in mind. Vehicle flipping and physics are placeholders. Suppression and infantry combat is not finalized. Spawn mechanics are practically placeholders, rallies change each update and are to change in tbe future. The turret stabilization feature is subject to all kinds of desync. Performance, low settings giving an advantage, LoD vs ranged combat. Blah blah blah blah.

 

I could go on forever listing more, but that would take too long and be pointless, the devs know them, there's good reason squad is in Beta in name, because it is in reality too.

 

So yeah, there's a lot in Squad's future if OWI wants to make it a truly great, and long lasting title that people will continue to play, modify, and populate for years and years to come, solidifying their name as a great studio that finishes what they start.

 

Bugs need to be gone 100%, game design needs to consistently produce fun, interesting, complex, realistic and cooperative matches by rewarding behavior that produces this and punishing behavior that is against it, all the while providing players with sufficient feedback and resources to learn and practice this behavior. All features, modes, maps, and assets need to be relevant, balanced, and conducive to this described outcome. 

 

So yeah, this is an immense task, and we are still in the phase of development where classes of vehicles are being added. Fortunately Squad already does achieve the outcome of good games more often than not, it would be dead otherwise.. it just needs more.

 

 

in terms of emplacements, i feel like most of their worthlessness comes from their narrow field of fire for bunkers and SPG emplacements. Also ever since the game changed so that lots of kits have optics, emplacements like the insurgent machine guns aren't as useful because they don't give enough cover, cause a lot of attention for the user and are extremely inaccurate even though they are meant to be used at 300 meters or more because the shooter can't see anything at those ranges effectively. They were fun to use for suppression when iron sights were more common for everyone, but now you just get shot by a prone ACOG or equivalent.

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Posted (edited)
On 2020-01-06 at 7:16 PM, EA_SUCKS said:

I could not care less about 100p, the reason? simple, Squad is too chaotic as it is right now, 100p will make it even worse

I prefer less people on the server, just to have that fake feeling that Squad is not so fast paced.. yeah, I like to pretend it is not

Not sure if you're just being funny, but you've got that backwards: game design should slow down gameplay to allow for more players, not the other way round. Hoping future changes to spawn mechanics and game modes will address any current tempo issues. The maps are certainly big enough for 50v50 if there was more impetus for spreading out and holding ground, as opposed to the current "zerg rush the point" meta.

Edited by pinko

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, warrior6 said:

 

in terms of emplacements, i feel like most of their worthlessness comes from their narrow field of fire for bunkers and SPG emplacements. Also ever since the game changed so that lots of kits have optics, emplacements like the insurgent machine guns aren't as useful because they don't give enough cover, cause a lot of attention for the user and are extremely inaccurate even though they are meant to be used at 300 meters or more because the shooter can't see anything at those ranges effectively. They were fun to use for suppression when iron sights were more common for everyone, but now you just get shot by a prone ACOG or equivalent.

Emplacements have always been one of the more difficult to use tools in Squad. They certainly aren't worthless and their value is based on high risk/high reward logic. They have insane damage capability, armour and cover penetration, suppression/splash, but they generally require good support to stay effective (so as not to get flanked/sniped). They use resources other than the set vehicle limit to put more firepower on the map, but they can't be packed up and moved if they are misplaced or the action moves on (that could be fixed, but would require reworking the supply mechanics to avoid cheesiness like switching emplacement types). They overpower any known targets, but there is no quick way to take cover when shots rain in from elsewhere (we've been asking for a duck mechanic since v9 at least). So some ease-of-use could be added, but even now they're worthwhile if you know how to use them and have a good squad in support. Check out MoiDawg's Twitch stream for some good emplacement action, among other Squad things :) I think the risk/reward system is good, just that the risks are artificially inflated by missing game mechanics.

Edited by pinko

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