Jump to content
giammotto

SQUAD could be amazing, but it lacks care

Recommended Posts

Hello guys I'm a new player and I've been playing SQUAD in the last week or so, I have a lot of praise for some aspects of the game, but there are some things which ruin it for me and I don't know if I will continue playing, but for the sake of feedback and helping the developers create a better game I will at least write this:

 

I know it's an alpha, but some things are inexcusable, like the inability to shoot from 50% of the windows in the game. I mean, this alone shows such a lack of care that it's baffling and makes me want to quit. You have an enemy right in front of you yet you can't shoot him because your bullets come out of the barrel, and your soldier is incapable of raising the gun a few centimetres. You create a new building and you don't even check if you can shoot through the windows? are you serious?

 

Clipping through buildings has now officially become a game mechanic, maybe instead of adding maps and helicopters you should achieve the basics of an FPS,, and from what I read it's been like 4 years and this hasn't been fixed.. again, it's lack of care in my opinion. You can add all you want to this game, until you fix the basic stuff players will keep leaving.

 

Inability to lean progressively and generally bad movement and animations, In real life, an operator can reload an AK in less than a second, but the tactical masturbation doesn't allow us that so we must make all animations unnecessarily slow and sluggish like the soldiers in the game are slightly retarded. When will developers understand that realism cannot be achieved like this? if you need to get your pistol FAST to save your life, and you see your soldier without any stress slowly put the rifle away and.. bam you're already dead. IRL he wouldn't put the rifle away, he would just take the pistol out and shoot. It's frustrating and destroys the immersion. Same with grenades.. you lose 5 seconds watching your soldier hold the grenade in his hand and do very slow moves when the grenade should be such a quick thing.. 

 

The inability to fix your gun in any way and achieve a well aimed shot is also very annoying, the exact opposite of realistic, it makes shooting far targets a game of luck and memorizing the muzzle sway. Also, has the soldier got Parkinson? (no offense to who suffers from it) he's completely incapable of holding his gun straight even at 10 meters, just very strange and not realistic at all, he is also incapable of holding his breath. The shooting in this game is probably the best out of every single FPS on the market, yet the lack of care makes it a very frustrating experience to deal with, and not as good as it should be, given the quality of sounds and animations.

 

Rallies are completely against the "realism" that you want to achieve, mainly because of the magic spawning of enemies and second because it is a supernatural source of intel on enemy positions, some leaders put the rally in an FOB just to see if there are enemies nearby. If you want realism, do it, this middle road is very inconclusive and frustrates everyone. 

 

Customization: I don't understand why most tactical games are so strict regarding gun customization, it actually goes against the real world because for all I know soldiers are free to customize their guns (to a certain extent) and make them as comfortable as possible. Yet in this game there are classes that don't even have an optic, and if there are too many optics in the team you can't use it, what is this garbage? it's just limiting and annoying, not at all realistic or "tactical", again, tactical masturbation in my opinion and nothing more. I don't want 650 gun attachments, but the ability to freely use grips, preferred optics, and maybe muzzle attachments would be nice, very basic stuff. I understand that you don't want to promote shooting in some classes, but taking away their firing capability altogether just seems limiting and stupid to me, but everyone can disagree

 

Last one, the maps are abysmal, sorry for the bluntness but it's true. They're the most boring and mundane maps I've ever seen, and it's not the terrain nor the fact that they are very large, it's because they're so lacking in love and care that it hurts. I'm sick of seeing the same tree copy and pasted everywhere, bad textures, completely empty houses and enviroments, houses that wouldn't even exist in real life (one house makes me laugh everytime, just one big room with 9 windows unevenly spread on all sides, wtf is even that?? who designed it??) 

 

In conclusion, SQUAD is on par with a lot of horrible early access games that get cancelled, but the developers got lucky with the fanbase and they are still supported by a lot of people, but I feel as though they're not better than many other indie developers. Lacking in care and quality and seemingly unable (after YEARS) to fix incredibly basic stuff, but at the same time very competent and capable in some other areas, enough to keep the game going and give a semblance of progress and making the game better. After a couple matches, you start to see how shallow and empty this game would be without it's amazing community, and it's a pain beause this game could be so much more. 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, giammotto said:

Last one, the maps are abysmal, sorry for the bluntness but it's true. They're the most boring and mundane maps I've ever seen, and it's not the terrain nor the fact that they are very large, it's because they're so lacking in love and care that it hurts.

I would politely disagree. Every map in Squad is amazing in its own way. Some are more distinctive than others and some have more character than others but I think overall a lot of creative talent went into them so this criticism is a bit harsh in my opinion. Could they be improved? Certainly. However, at this point they all suffice within the context of the actual gameplay which brings me to the next point you make that I have a major problem with.

1 hour ago, giammotto said:

 

After a couple matches, you start to see how shallow and empty this game would be without it's amazing community, and it's a pain beause this game could be so much more. 

 

 

 

 

After only a couple of matches I think you've utterly missed what I feel is the ultimate strength of the game which is the fact that the game is programmed to necessitate that 40 random people form a cohesive unit and work together and communicate in order to win a match.

 

That said, it's very easy for people like you to hate Squad. At this point it's sold well over a million copies yet has never really had a stable concurrent population over 5000 across it's entire timeline.

 

 

Needless to say, as you pointed out in great detail its lacking on many elements that are considered normal within the fps genre however in your comparison/contrast you failed to recognize the features that make Squad completely unique over every other game in the genre.

 

Those main attributes are teamwork, communication, strategies, tactics and situational awareness. No other game in the fps genre besides Enemy Territory: Quake Wars has even came close to this "thinking man's" gameplay.

 

So yeah, Squad looks like trash compared to my shiny new copy of Calla Dooty with its ray tracing goodness highlighting the dust bunnies in the dappled sunlight shining through the opaque window but saying its shallow just shows your ignorance.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

 

After only a couple of matches I think you've utterly missed what I feel is the ultimate strength of the game which is the fact that the game is programmed to necessitate that 40 random people form a cohesive unit and work together and communicate in order to win a match.

You're getting me wrong if you say this, because this is exactly what drew me to the game and what made me spend my money, I  watched hours worth of content on youtube and I thought that it looked damn interesting and fun, and requiring a lot of effort and cooperation to enjoy properly, and I'm exactly this kind of player and I noticed I can have better teamwork than 90% of other players and even bring a squad together when it is breaking apart (which happens always but it's not the fault of the developers, just stupid players) so don't think I'm some kind of COD fanboy who is just here to hate on the game, it's the opposite (and also the maps are good in layout and maybe colors, but everything is so low detail and so featureless that it becomes an eyesore to play after a while)

 

In fact I am writing this (and I hope the developers read) because I'm disappointed and I see a lot of similarity with scummy indie developers, who maybe even add content and "release" the game but it's always a mediocre experience that only changes in stability, graphics and a bit of content when it gets out of alpha. Squad still needs a lot of fundamental work in the absolute basics of an FPS and it's base quality, which is still very low. It's clunky, it's all the stuff I wrote before and more which will come to mind to everyone who plays it. The cooperation factor can mask this for some people, but  there could be three times as many players just waiting for the game to become more enjoyable, and polished. But all I see is trying to add content, as if all the basics are already done when they are not..until then I will not suggest Squad to anyone, because I see a lack of care in it..

Edited by giammotto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, giammotto said:

like the inability to shoot from 50% of the windows in the game

agree. should be fixed and new windows set to a standard that matches the average barrel height (at ADS) - for QoL if nothing else.

5 hours ago, giammotto said:

Clipping through buildings

i've played games from the biggest dev houses and still can have the random glitching/falling/etc through polygons/terrain.

5 hours ago, giammotto said:

In real life, an operator can reload an AK in less than a second, but the tactical masturba........

wow, really? less than a second?

the rest of that paragraph appears to confirm your need for CoD-esque fast-paced tacticool shooterz type game.

5 hours ago, giammotto said:

The inability to fix your gun in any way and achieve a well aimed shot

did they change something at last update because from what i've seen if you have full stam and full breath, the guns appear rock-solid at ADS when Focused.

5 hours ago, giammotto said:

Rallies are completely against the "realism" that you want to achiev

totally agree.

5 hours ago, giammotto said:

Customization:

.. actually goes against the real world because for all I know soldiers are free to customize their guns ..

.. taking away their firing capability altogether ..

so you're guessing to start with, then assert that lack of customisation removes the ability to capably fire a weapon ...

5 hours ago, giammotto said:

Last one, the maps are abysmal, sorry for the bluntness but it's true.

some look not-as-pretty as some others but they are also the early maps (that could do with a spruce-up). some of the newer maps are amazing.

2 hours ago, giammotto said:

(and also the maps are good in layout and maybe colors, but everything is so low detail and so featureless that it becomes an eyesore to play after a while)

?! ...but, my previous quote, of you, above this one.

 

from some of what you have OP'd it seems that you don't really have any idea about exactly what is involved and the amount of work required to produce even a relatively simple map, or asset (eg: house). you also appear to not understand that filling the maps with many thousands more assets at least, to fill out buildings and areas with realistic stuffs to imershunz, will cripple the game (talked about adnauseum already).

you have also come across rather harsh and disrespectful, unfortunately. i'm actually not a "fanboi" of Squad but i do back it and highly respect the effort so far - i just want a decent FPS game that requires some thought; show me any other title (present/future) that does this. and i can mod Squad as well.

how about some examples of what you feel Squad should be, for comparison - you know, other games IRL that do what you want.

 

 

 

Edited by LaughingJack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-1 or just implement a very basic fixing feature that works similarly to the bipod but is much faster and mobile

-2 actually I have yet to glitch through the terrain so far, I'm talking about feet and guns sticking from the walls of buildings, something so basic it should have been fixed at the start of the game

-3 in optimal conditions and optimal training I've seen videos where they reload from empty in 1,3 or something, point being that the 4-5 seconds required in game are a very calm and relaxed reload, and often it is out of sync with what is going on around you. also, I don't know where you get the idea that I'm a cod fanboy

-4 with focus it moves just a little but with any scope and no bipod it shakes constantly and I would understand this if you could fix your gun, but given that you can't..

-5 -

-6 here maybe I went off a little and of course I didn't mean it literally, meaning that in this game you're often thrown into very difficult situations without an optic and I don't see a good reason for it

-7 let me elaborate on the maps, I think they are laid out well (even though are mostly very generic terrain) and have good roads and seem plausible, I'm referring to how boring and lifeless the game looks, it's all too generic and I really find it boring to look at, in the moments when I don't cooperate with my team and I'm just in the gameworld, it looks so uninteresting and barebones. I know a good deal about how a game is produced and how more objects and complexity have multiple impacts that have to be considered, but if you put it like this than you're simply justifying incompetence, as many games achieve a very good level of open world pleasant maps (still realistic and simple) but full of details and even interactability (destruction, mechanisms that can be manipulated etc,) and also exceptional performance compared to this (which is also a badly optimized game, looks average and is twice as demanding as much more beautiful games)

I don't ask that much, but I think such a realistic game should have more realistic enviroments and not be so barebones like it is at the moment, it would benefit greatly in terms of immersion

 

I'm not at all disrespectful, but disappointed and not so convinced by a game I purchased and I just wanted to share my opinion, which may also explain why this game is losing players and cannot achieve a stable high playberase, maybe think a bit outside the bubble, this is not a remote opinion.. you think only 5000 players are interested in Squad? there could be so many more that are turned down by things that you simply justify instead of address, and so they never even buy the game, like me for years. didn't mean any disrespect if you felt any, but even if it was the case I don't like this kind of approach to games, it leads to sub-par games that lose focus over time.. and to also respond to your question, I think there is nothing like squad at the moment (apart from PR) all the rest has some of its qualities but too much different stuff (insurgency old and new, battlefield, rainbow six, I have some hope for ready or not) so I really can't answer your question

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
 
 
On 11/6/2019 at 2:42 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

So yeah, Squad looks like trash compared to my shiny new copy of Calla Dooty with its ray tracing goodness highlighting the dust bunnies in the dappled sunlight shining through the opaque window but saying its shallow just shows your ignorance.

 

This made me laugh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
 
1
On 11/6/2019 at 12:17 PM, giammotto said:
 
 
On 11/6/2019 at 12:17 PM, giammotto said:

In real life, an operator can reload an AK in less than a second,

I highly,

 

no, I know for a fact this isn't true. 

Edited by Nossa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Firing on a range in a sweatshirt dropping mags on the ground and firing in full kit while in combat are different things.

"like the inability to shoot from 50% of the windows in the game."

Agree

"Clipping through buildings"

Agree

"Inability to lean progressively and generally bad movement and animations, In real life, an operator can reload an AK in less than a second, but the tactical masturbation doesn't allow us that so we must make all animations unnecessarily slow and sluggish like the soldiers in the game are slightly retarded. When will developers understand that realism cannot be achieved like this? if you need to get your pistol FAST to save your life, and you see your soldier without any stress slowly put the rifle away and.. bam you're already dead. IRL he wouldn't put the rifle away, he would just take the pistol out and shoot. It's frustrating and destroys the immersion. Same with grenades.. you lose 5 seconds watching your soldier hold the grenade in his hand and do very slow moves when the grenade should be such a quick thing.. "

 

    Im sure you can find speed runs or some Elite guys doing mag changes very fast, but its the same as that video above - Running around in full kit and having to do Mag changes isn't going to take 1.88 seconds for every average soldier. Squad reloading feels fine and using the fastest times to represent average soldiers in combat conditions would make it into like so many other twitch shooters. There's so much more that has to happen that squad cant simulate. Did your Vest move to a slightly different position that would slow you down? Are empty mags getting put away or not? Do you slow down reloading after sprinting across a field? Are you in an awkward position? Is your issued holster falling down your leg?  The same thing with Grenades - If I'm standing with a grenade in my hand ready to go  you can get a good throw off in 2-3 seconds, but your not doing that in the squad - IRL your trying to get it out of a pouch first and then getting your grip and removing the safety clip-Squad feels about right.

 

"Rallies are completely against the "realism" that you want to achieve, mainly because of the magic spawning of enemies and second because it is a supernatural source of intel on enemy positions, some leaders put the rally in an FOB just to see if there are enemies nearby. If you want realism, do it, this middle road is very inconclusive and frustrates everyone"

 

Agree

 

"Customization: I don't understand why most tactical games are so strict regarding gun customization, it actually goes against the real world because for all I know soldiers are free to customize their guns (to a certain extent) and make them as comfortable as possible. Yet in this game there are classes that don't even have an optic, and if there are too many optics in the team you can't use it, what is this garbage? it's just limiting and annoying, not at all realistic or "tactical", again, tactical masturbation in my opinion and nothing more. I don't want 650 gun attachments, but the ability to freely use grips, preferred optics, and maybe muzzle attachments would be nice, very basic stuff. I understand that you don't want to promote shooting in some classes, but taking away their firing capability altogether just seems limiting and stupid to me, but everyone can disagree"

 

Squad represents your average soldiers - I don't see any guys walking around with suppressors because they feel like it. The most customization I've seen on average is getting to pick where your PEC is and if you want a forward grip or not. For the most part, the weapon you get is what you get.  Squad already gives you options on the type of sights if it's not limited, and I'm not sure what gameplay changes would really be made by allowing you to pick a grip.

Edited by Guardian
Formatting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Squad should be the antithesis of Calla Dooty because certainly it fails miserably in an arcade type comparison. That said, logic would then dictate that every single element and system of Squad should be the complete opposite of that type of arcade shooter game and instead focus on the emulation of realistic gameplay.

 

Its my opinion that over the nearly three years of development its this hybrid "fence sitting" juxtaposition of both arcade & realistic attributes that have literally crippled the popularity of the game itself because those elements cancel each other out.

 

On one hand it's not arcade enough for the players coming from the CoD/BF communities and on the other hand its not realistic enough to satisfy the PR folks and others that are looking for an fps game with strategy and tactics.

 

Clearly Squad has evolved into a watered down TDM with side quests and will never grow its playership until it goes in a more realistic direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/6/2019 at 12:17 PM, giammotto said:

I know it's an alpha, but some things are inexcusable, like the inability to shoot from 50% of the windows in the game. I mean, this alone shows such a lack of care that it's baffling and makes me want to quit. You have an enemy right in front of you yet you can't shoot him because your bullets come out of the barrel, and your soldier is incapable of raising the gun a few centimetres. You create a new building and you don't even check if you can shoot through the windows? are you serious?

I have noticed this too, and progressive leaning (which giammotto covers later in the post) would be a great concept to have in order to peak corners and over windowsills enough to engage the enemy while presenting yourself as small a target for them as possible.

Quote

In real life, an operator can reload an AK in less than a second

No, no they can't... professionals can definitely reload very quickly, notless than a second.  2.5 is about as fast as I could believe, but you have to consider that you have to realize "I'm out", get the magazine out of the pouch that you have to keep it from falling out on the move, clear the empty magazine, insert the new one, and charge the weapon.  This is not a "Less than a second" operation.  For someone to be able to do that is inhumanly fast, even if you drill it.

Quote

if you need to get your pistol FAST to save your life, and you see your soldier without any stress slowly put the rifle away and.. bam you're already dead. IRL he wouldn't put the rifle away, he would just take the pistol out and shoot. It's frustrating and destroys the immersion. Same with grenades.. you lose 5 seconds watching your soldier hold the grenade in his hand and do very slow moves when the grenade should be such a quick thing.. 

This I agree with, the movements show no true sense of urgency.  If I'm under fire and need my sidearm, I want that second weapon as fast as I can sling my primary over my shoulder and draw.

Quote

 

The inability to fix your gun in any way and achieve a well aimed shot is also very annoying, the exact opposite of realistic, it makes shooting far targets a game of luck and memorizing the muzzle sway. Also, has the soldier got Parkinson? (no offense to who suffers from it) he's completely incapable of holding his gun straight even at 10 meters, just very strange and not realistic at all, he is also incapable of holding his breath.

Hold Shift to stabilize your weapon by holding your breath for those tougher long range shots.

Quote

Rallies are completely against the "realism" that you want to achieve, mainly because of the magic spawning of enemies and second because it is a supernatural source of intel on enemy positions, some leaders put the rally in an FOB just to see if there are enemies nearby. If you want realism, do it, this middle road is very inconclusive and frustrates everyone. 

That's smart!  I can honestly say in the years that I've played on and off, I've never even considered that move!  That's pretty annoying.

 

Giammotto goes on for some time about this "Lack of care" put into the game, but I disagree with that entirely.  These developers have a tough job, bridging the gap between reality and gaming while still making it fun.  With all the battle royal and CoD style shooters where it's every man for himself, they have a game where only teamwork will truly prevail.  Yeah, there are a lot of flaws, but short of having experience or education in game development, who are we to tell them that they "Don't care"?

Edited by Clayton.Q[3SFG]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 07/11/2019 at 10:26 AM, giammotto said:

I'm talking about feet and guns sticking from the walls of buildings, something so basic it should have been fixed at the start of the game

ah, yeah, agree that it should be fixed - would be nice, considering it the bane of every other game on the planet. it has been discussed at least once, ages ago and i think in the end it was considered non-important because of the extra overhead required to achieve - was talk about an animation collision system that could handle walls etc and adjust stance/position to suit obstacles.

On 07/11/2019 at 10:26 AM, giammotto said:

I don't know where you get the idea that I'm a cod fanboy

i was'nt calling you a fanboi, i was inferring that wanting 1 second reloads is basically asking for that style of game (CoD, BF, wotever).

On 07/11/2019 at 10:26 AM, giammotto said:

let me elaborate on the maps, I think they are laid out well (even though are mostly very generic terrain) and have good roads and seem plausible, I'm referring to how boring and lifeless the game looks, it's all too generic and I really find it boring to look at, in the moments when I don't cooperate with my team and I'm just in the gameworld, it looks so uninteresting and barebones. I know a good deal about how a game is produced and how more objects and complexity have multiple impacts that have to be considered, but if you put it like this than you're simply justifying incompetence, as many games achieve a very good level of open world pleasant maps (still realistic and simple) but full of details and even interactability (destruction, mechanisms that can be manipulated etc,) and also exceptional performance compared to this (which is also a badly optimized game, looks average and is twice as demanding as much more beautiful games)

I don't ask that much, but I think such a realistic game should have more realistic enviroments and not be so barebones like it is at the moment, it would benefit greatly in terms of immersion

re bolded: name any other MP-FPS game with more than 4 sq.Km playable area and 30-40+(min.) players per team.

"I know a good deal about how a game is produced" - then you should understand that this game is yet to reach it's final (propper) optimisation process.

i would love to have Squad running infinte rendering of extreme definition texturing on billions of objects at real-time frame rates, but, you know how reality is a biatch, right?

your paragraph above prompts me to suggest you make a map in the SDK and find out what is actually involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2019 at 11:53 AM, Clayton.Q[3SFG] said:

Giammotto goes on for some time about this "Lack of care" put into the game, but I disagree with that entirely.

Agreed. Compared to another sleazy indie studio in the same genre that are basically using their PC community as paying Quality Assurance staff for their upcoming console releases these guys are saints.

Quote

 These developers have a tough job, bridging the gap between reality and gaming while still making it fun.

"Fun" is a relative term though. This genre is already super saturated with several games that not only do the military arcade shooter "fun" paradigm way better but they also look much better because the levels are so much smaller. Plus the big studios have hundreds of people on the payroll to ensure that. Again, even more validation for the concept of doing something that nobody else is doing, which of course is simulating a more realistic experience.

 

Quote

With all the battle royal and CoD style shooters where it's every man for himself, they have a game where only teamwork will truly prevail.  Yeah, there are a lot of flaws, but short of having experience or education in game development, who are we to tell them that they "Don't care"?

Exactly. The strongest and most unique features of this game are the built-in framework of teamwork and communication and how they interact with strategies and tactics. Taking the focus away from a realistic simulation where intelligent decisions win matches and instead evolving it into Quake Team Arena with camo skins is ultimately a bad decision in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2019 at 9:53 AM, Guardian said:

There's so much more that has to happen that squad cant simulate. Did your Vest move to a slightly different position that would slow you down? Are empty mags getting put away or not? Do you slow down reloading after sprinting across a field? Are you in an awkward position? Is your issued holster falling down your leg?  The same thing with Grenades - If I'm standing with a grenade in my hand ready to go  you can get a good throw off in 2-3 seconds, but your not doing that in the squad - IRL your trying to get it out of a pouch first and then getting your grip and removing the safety clip-Squad feels about right.

Why would it need to simulate that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 09/11/2019 at 8:47 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

Squad should be the antithesis of Calla Dooty because certainly it fails miserably in an arcade type comparison. That said, logic would then dictate that every single element and system of Squad should be the complete opposite of that type of arcade shooter game and instead focus on the emulation of realistic gameplay.

 

Its my opinion that over the nearly three years of development its this hybrid "fence sitting" juxtaposition of both arcade & realistic attributes that have literally crippled the popularity of the game itself because those elements cancel each other out.

 

On one hand it's not arcade enough for the players coming from the CoD/BF communities and on the other hand its not realistic enough to satisfy the PR folks and others that are looking for an fps game with strategy and tactics.

 

Clearly Squad has evolved into a watered down TDM with side quests and will never grow its playership until it goes in a more realistic direction.

Agreee. Really well put together. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/11/2019 at 8:47 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

Squad should be the antithesis of Calla Dooty because certainly it fails miserably in an arcade type comparison. That said, logic would then dictate that every single element and system of Squad should be the complete opposite of that type of arcade shooter game and instead focus on the emulation of realistic gameplay.

 

Its my opinion that over the nearly three years of development its this hybrid "fence sitting" juxtaposition of both arcade & realistic attributes that have literally crippled the popularity of the game itself because those elements cancel each other out.

 

On one hand it's not arcade enough for the players coming from the CoD/BF communities and on the other hand its not realistic enough to satisfy the PR folks and others that are looking for an fps game with strategy and tactics.

 

Clearly Squad has evolved into a watered down TDM with side quests and will never grow its playership until it goes in a more realistic direction.

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-11-06 at 6:17 PM, giammotto said:

Hello guys I'm a new player and I've been playing SQUAD in the last week or so, I have a lot of praise for some aspects of the game, but there are some things which ruin it for me and I don't know if I will continue playing, but for the sake of feedback and helping the developers create a better game I will at least write this:

 

I know it's an alpha, but some things are inexcusable, like the inability to shoot from 50% of the windows in the game. I mean, this alone shows such a lack of care that it's baffling and makes me want to quit. You have an enemy right in front of you yet you can't shoot him because your bullets come out of the barrel, and your soldier is incapable of raising the gun a few centimetres. You create a new building and you don't even check if you can shoot through the windows? are you serious?

 

Clipping through buildings has now officially become a game mechanic, maybe instead of adding maps and helicopters you should achieve the basics of an FPS,, and from what I read it's been like 4 years and this hasn't been fixed.. again, it's lack of care in my opinion. You can add all you want to this game, until you fix the basic stuff players will keep leaving.

 

Inability to lean progressively and generally bad movement and animations, In real life, an operator can reload an AK in less than a second, but the tactical masturbation doesn't allow us that so we must make all animations unnecessarily slow and sluggish like the soldiers in the game are slightly retarded. When will developers understand that realism cannot be achieved like this? if you need to get your pistol FAST to save your life, and you see your soldier without any stress slowly put the rifle away and.. bam you're already dead. IRL he wouldn't put the rifle away, he would just take the pistol out and shoot. It's frustrating and destroys the immersion. Same with grenades.. you lose 5 seconds watching your soldier hold the grenade in his hand and do very slow moves when the grenade should be such a quick thing.. 

 

The inability to fix your gun in any way and achieve a well aimed shot is also very annoying, the exact opposite of realistic, it makes shooting far targets a game of luck and memorizing the muzzle sway. Also, has the soldier got Parkinson? (no offense to who suffers from it) he's completely incapable of holding his gun straight even at 10 meters, just very strange and not realistic at all, he is also incapable of holding his breath. The shooting in this game is probably the best out of every single FPS on the market, yet the lack of care makes it a very frustrating experience to deal with, and not as good as it should be, given the quality of sounds and animations.

 

Rallies are completely against the "realism" that you want to achieve, mainly because of the magic spawning of enemies and second because it is a supernatural source of intel on enemy positions, some leaders put the rally in an FOB just to see if there are enemies nearby. If you want realism, do it, this middle road is very inconclusive and frustrates everyone. 

 

Customization: I don't understand why most tactical games are so strict regarding gun customization, it actually goes against the real world because for all I know soldiers are free to customize their guns (to a certain extent) and make them as comfortable as possible. Yet in this game there are classes that don't even have an optic, and if there are too many optics in the team you can't use it, what is this garbage? it's just limiting and annoying, not at all realistic or "tactical", again, tactical masturbation in my opinion and nothing more. I don't want 650 gun attachments, but the ability to freely use grips, preferred optics, and maybe muzzle attachments would be nice, very basic stuff. I understand that you don't want to promote shooting in some classes, but taking away their firing capability altogether just seems limiting and stupid to me, but everyone can disagree

 

Last one, the maps are abysmal, sorry for the bluntness but it's true. They're the most boring and mundane maps I've ever seen, and it's not the terrain nor the fact that they are very large, it's because they're so lacking in love and care that it hurts. I'm sick of seeing the same tree copy and pasted everywhere, bad textures, completely empty houses and enviroments, houses that wouldn't even exist in real life (one house makes me laugh everytime, just one big room with 9 windows unevenly spread on all sides, wtf is even that?? who designed it??) 

 

In conclusion, SQUAD is on par with a lot of horrible early access games that get cancelled, but the developers got lucky with the fanbase and they are still supported by a lot of people, but I feel as though they're not better than many other indie developers. Lacking in care and quality and seemingly unable (after YEARS) to fix incredibly basic stuff, but at the same time very competent and capable in some other areas, enough to keep the game going and give a semblance of progress and making the game better. After a couple matches, you start to see how shallow and empty this game would be without it's amazing community, and it's a pain beause this game could be so much more. 

 

 

 

 

You can not reload an AK in less than a second. Not normal soldiers. Maybe some trick shot dude with his mags in perfect order and no stress situation. Possibly. Have you ever reloaded an assault rifle yourself? 

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a former soldier, that point about everyone being free to customise their weapons made me chuckle, OP. You're a real dreamer, kid.

 

Some good points, all round. Some less so. Props to OWI for trying with more limited resources. Yeah, some aspects of the game could be better to distance itself from its vague hybrid qualities but even so its been more authentically enjoyable for me than multiplayer Battlefield or COD. They're just so same-ey and I doubt, unless something dramatically changes at EA/DICE that I would ever pick up a BF title again which is a shame given its origins and those of Squad/PR.

 

Once you push a game too far in the realistic direction you start to have a ArmA/OF clone and while some elements of gameplay (i.e. buddy rallies) are inherently unrealistic it adds persistence, which is hugely important on the large layer sizes.

 

Would I like to have a more in-depth player damage and medic system? Sure. But it'd be complicated as shit and would be challenging to effectively employ under fire given the game's current tempo and lack of a drag mechanic.

 

Would I love a JTAC class? You bet your arse. Its redundant with map marking by SLs coupled with the new commander class though. Maybe this could be developed further and to that end I'm happy to wait. In the meantime, we just give thanks to baby Jebus and grab another ammo bag ;)

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotta love when somebody with no clue of anything talks big.

 

The guys that talk like this are the same guys that never shot a rifle in a military environment, never had to carry all the shit a soldier carries but they know it all. Man, i bet you would collapse after a 7k march in full gear. 

 

Squad is a display of armies with regular soldiers, not some top notch operators. 

 

I agree on the windows though. 

 

 

 

Edited by Kriechbaum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kriechbaum said:

Squad is a display of armies with regular soldiers, not some top notch operators. 


Do you know movement speed of the soldier in Squad?

 

2 hours ago, Kriechbaum said:

Gotta love when somebody with no clue of anything talks big.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kriechbaum said:

Gotta love when somebody with no clue of anything talks big.

 

The guys that talk like this are the same guys that never shot a rifle in a military environment, never had to carry all the shit a soldier carries but they know it all. Man, i bet you would collapse after a 7k march in full gear. 

 

Squad is a display of armies with regular soldiers, not some top notch operators. 

 

I agree on the windows though. 

 

 

 

Windows are on purpose though because it is considered unfair advantage / camping to stand behind a window shooting out. It is an idea that belongs in Quake Arena or some other crap game though. Not in Squad. In Squad if someone camps you take em out with an rpg instead. That's how it should be. Wish the devs could understand that situations should be met with proper ordnance not with running and gunning all the situations all the time. It takes all the strategy out of the game if you can always run and gun your way out of all situations. It Sucks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, paragonid said:


Do you know movement speed of the soldier in Squad?

 

 

I didn't measure it, but i also didn't say anything about it, so could you elaborate what your post is about? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 06/11/2019 at 7:42 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

 

 

Those main attributes are teamwork, communication, strategies, tactics and situational awareness. 

 

 

thanks for the laughs! 

 

teamwork: hardly any, one SL might make a mistake and some squad members will venture off and do what they feel is right. some cases they are right because they have played more. In BF you can see a players rank, this is simply a time played thing but at least you know they are some what capable of the basics. squad doesn't have that which creates mistrust. 

 

communication: so far in a lot of my games you might have an SL whose getting an ear bashing from the other SL's which makes him toxic to his squad mates thus spreading more anger. Some SL's are "do what I say or get kicked" and if other squads are full you sort of just float around not able to do anything at all and having to leave the game and go que into a 15 deep server. zZZZzZ

 

some players can be very negative from the start to any suggestion of tactics, purely wanting to meat grind the entire squad in the hope/chance of regaining a cap, instead of retreating, regrouping and pushing as one. Again a mention of an idea can lead to arguments and kicking.

 

some players play squad to have fun first, some want to pretend they are in Kajaki around 2006 and shout, be abusive and pretend they are gunnery sergeant Hartman and you are private pyle makes playing an FPS game quite unpleasant.

 

IV played for 2 weeks now, every day and im seeing similar issues the OP has layered out. some I can adjust to and others are baked into a game that brings random players together into an arena that takes team work above all else to win. 

 

I played tons of Overwatch before coming to my first milsim game, squad. Overwatch is kinda similar, you see this amazing teamwork going on maybe on twitch or some youtube video and you want some of it, you join your first game and one guys blasting music out not stop, everyones triggered no ones working together the blame train comes in and shouting matches begin.  

 

on one side of the coin this amazing experience that you have to climb Everest, do a 540 back flip in a car and go to the moon to have.

Everyone else is just in the mud, tramping through the crap one game to another.

 

squad has the exact same issues that overwatch has, people. people make or break games like this and for me im having more negative interactions then positive ones, a shame really because I enjoyed overwatch and I enjoy squad but it takes people to really have the best time in these types of games.

 

blizzard did a stella job of trying to make overwatch less toxic, easier for teamwork to be at the forefront and the toxic babies dealt with, squad isn't even close to that, servers are like the wild west

 

I saw a karmakut game and it wanted me to come to squad and try my first milsim game, after maybe my first 10 games I could see already the abusive nature and server admins who make you jump through hoops or kick you, one game I had muted two other SL's because they wanted me to do exactly what they were doing, throwing themselves and that of the squad into a meat grinder, no flanking no thinking. turns out they were admins this made them keep kicking my squad members making them angry in the process because I wasn't adhering to the quite stupid way of playing. 

 

smaller things like playing against a full squad of clan members all talking all playing as a squad is very frustrating, even more so on new player friendly servers, this creates toxicity through all SL's because they cant seem to figure out what to do or whose blame is it we are getting steam rolled or not dealing with this Bradley way out in the sticks spawn camping because no one can get close because hes part of the mentioned clan squad. 

 

anyhow ill give squad a little more time but for me I think it needs 2+3 years of work before it can really deal with player issues and basic fps game standards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Beard said:

thanks for the laughs! 

 

teamwork: hardly any, one SL might make a mistake and some squad members will venture off and do what they feel is right. some cases they are right because they have played more. In BF you can see a players rank, this is simply a time played thing but at least you know they are some what capable of the basics. squad doesn't have that which creates mistrust. 

 

communication: so far in a lot of my games you might have an SL whose getting an ear bashing from the other SL's which makes him toxic to his squad mates thus spreading more anger. Some SL's are "do what I say or get kicked" and if other squads are full you sort of just float around not able to do anything at all and having to leave the game and go que into a 15 deep server. zZZZzZ

 

some players can be very negative from the start to any suggestion of tactics, purely wanting to meat grind the entire squad in the hope/chance of regaining a cap, instead of retreating, regrouping and pushing as one. Again a mention of an idea can lead to arguments and kicking.

 

some players play squad to have fun first, some want to pretend they are in Kajaki around 2006 and shout, be abusive and pretend they are gunnery sergeant Hartman and you are private pyle makes playing an FPS game quite unpleasant.

 

IV played for 2 weeks now, every day and im seeing similar issues the OP has layered out. some I can adjust to and others are baked into a game that brings random players together into an arena that takes team work above all else to win. 

 

I played tons of Overwatch before coming to my first milsim game, squad. Overwatch is kinda similar, you see this amazing teamwork going on maybe on twitch or some youtube video and you want some of it, you join your first game and one guys blasting music out not stop, everyones triggered no ones working together the blame train comes in and shouting matches begin.  

 

on one side of the coin this amazing experience that you have to climb Everest, do a 540 back flip in a car and go to the moon to have.

Everyone else is just in the mud, tramping through the crap one game to another.

 

squad has the exact same issues that overwatch has, people. people make or break games like this and for me im having more negative interactions then positive ones, a shame really because I enjoyed overwatch and I enjoy squad but it takes people to really have the best time in these types of games.

 

blizzard did a stella job of trying to make overwatch less toxic, easier for teamwork to be at the forefront and the toxic babies dealt with, squad isn't even close to that, servers are like the wild west

 

I saw a karmakut game and it wanted me to come to squad and try my first milsim game, after maybe my first 10 games I could see already the abusive nature and server admins who make you jump through hoops or kick you, one game I had muted two other SL's because they wanted me to do exactly what they were doing, throwing themselves and that of the squad into a meat grinder, no flanking no thinking. turns out they were admins this made them keep kicking my squad members making them angry in the process because I wasn't adhering to the quite stupid way of playing. 

 

smaller things like playing against a full squad of clan members all talking all playing as a squad is very frustrating, even more so on new player friendly servers, this creates toxicity through all SL's because they cant seem to figure out what to do or whose blame is it we are getting steam rolled or not dealing with this Bradley way out in the sticks spawn camping because no one can get close because hes part of the mentioned clan squad. 

 

anyhow ill give squad a little more time but for me I think it needs 2+3 years of work before it can really deal with player issues and basic fps game standards.

I was referencing the framework of the game itself which is quite solid. I can't stress that enough.

 

User experiences may vary though which is why there are over a million key holders but a community of regulars worldwide less than 5000. This game community has a major retention problem and has driven away far more folks than its kept around. Plus, the only streamer that I've ever seen give a truly accurate view of Squad is jackfrags as well.

 

That said, you don't need a master's degree in human resources management to understand that cronyism, favoritism and many other negative human traits are present in any organization whether it's a bunch of millennials drinking microbrews and playing dodgeball or corporate life at John Deere headquarters. Why would you expect Squad servers to be any different?

 

Needless to say, there are only a small handful of NA server's that don't have layer upon layer of supplemental rules and are fair and balanced in their administration of the game. Hit me up on Steam.

 

Over the last three years you won't find a more vocal critic of the manner in which this game is presented to the general public than myself. Since day one my position has always been that any video game should be programmed to be completely standalone with a standardized ruleset that allows everyone a universally equal experience. Instead, as you've seen it's typically quite the opposite. In their defense over the timeline of the game [OWI] has banned several really toxic server hosts and players but it took way too long in my opinion plus most of them just made duplicate accounts and are now still currently playing on various servers spreading their disease anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Do you know movement speed of the soldier in Squad?"

 

(current SDK settings) normal run speed is 4.5m/s; sprint speed is 4.5m/s * 1.8 = 8.1m/s (about 30Kph); ads/walk speed is 4.5m/s / 0.6 = 2.7m/s.

so far my mod has run at 5.5m/s * 1, sprint at zero (not used) and ads/walk at 0.6 * 5.5 = 3.3m/s (which is prolly too fast for Walk,  really).

 

for ref: JointOps, because Encumbrance, had variable speed from about 10m/s (lightest enc.) to about 8m/s (heaviest enc.), dependant on your loadout. - 'always-run', no sprint.

 

 

Edited by LaughingJack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was very wrong about the reloading speed, both about the exact time and also about the obvious fact that in a warzone and with imminent risk of death one would be slowed down and thus reload more carefully, and also yes I've never even fired a gun in my life but I have great respect for the military (of all nations) and what they do, it's one of the reasons why we're all here and why I am writing this instead of simply leaving the game and maybe look for a refund (I won't refund it, just wait it out). With the weapon handling and gunplay what I'm referring to is how clunky and unresponsive most actions feel. I don't want any call of duty in this game, I want it to be as realistic and accurate as possible, and that also means making you feel in actual control of the soldier and present, capable of responding to threats quickly like you were there, instead there are a lot of factors which make the game feel unreliable and unfinished, like it's still missing essential elements. (Another big bug, in auto fire there's a chance that when firing 1 bullet the sound of a 3round burst will be played instead, this makes the audio very unreliable because every encounter sounds like 5 people shooting when instead it's a one on one.)

 

As for the community I didn't find much of the negatives I read, I found it very easy to cooperate and managed to both join great communicative and fun squads and help mantain or create good effective squads (especially one I had with 5 indian dudes, suppression fire with two LMGs to every single enemy encounter, just beautiful). The community is great, and if you find really bad servers you should just leave, and get into the good ones like TLR, PA etc. so for that it's the thing that makes me sometimes wish to re-install, but then I remember the rerrible performance, the bullshit deaths due to bugs, the need to wait hours to play in good servers and sometimes even get a horrible squad that can't play together with no better choices.

 

Too many negatives and too few positives for me, I was attracted by a cool military game with huge maps, huge playercounts focus on communication and deep strategy, and what I got was a game with excellent communication, very good foundation for an excellent experience but very little of said excperience, still a very unfinished game that it's a bit jarring to see sold at 40 euros, this should be 20 max, you just managed to get a lot of good marketing so you got a lot of sales, this doesn't mean your game is ready to be at that price, also because 98% leave the game! 3.000 over a million is a bit telling, in my opinion..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×