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Atlan

I'm giving up on this game.

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9 minutes ago, Thegreenzzz said:

Have you ever played COD, it’s nothing like this, they don’t even have rallies or anything similar. I hate it when people compare these games, they are nothing alike

Yeah I'd have to agree with paragonid there, hopefully OWI can refund my kickstarter pledge because this trash is basically BattleDuty.

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15 hours ago, Thegreenzzz said:

Have you ever played COD, it’s nothing like this, they don’t even have rallies or anything similar. I hate it when people compare these games, they are nothing alike

it's a system of coordinate.

Something "overcomplicated not dynamic enough milsim" -> arma -> BF2:PR -> Squad -> COD -> "doom clone shooter".

 

Squad is definitely closer to COD than PR to COD and moving that way, due to reducing cost of death and introducing much more teleportation and combat spawn mechanics.

 

Comparing something to something is one of the main methods of learning and evaluating. Democracies don't get hurt when compared to tyrannies.... unless they aren't actually real democracies. So the hurt in the bottom side of spine is ok, it means you are onto somthing

Edited by paragonid

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On ‎20‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 10:36 AM, paragonid said:

it's a system of coordinate.

Something "overcomplicated not dynamic enough milsim" -> arma -> BF2:PR -> Squad -> COD -> "doom clone shooter".

 

Squad is definitely closer to COD than PR to COD and moving that way, due to reducing cost of death and introducing much more teleportation and combat spawn mechanics.

 

Comparing something to something is one of the main methods of learning and evaluating. Democracies don't get hurt when compared to tyrannies.... unless they aren't actually real democracies. So the hurt in the bottom side of spine is ok, it means you are onto somthing

+1

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Hey everyone good to see a healthy discussion on game mechanics here.

 

Just want to remind everyone to keep things respectful and to not get personal. I understand that with these kinds of topics it's easy to get worked up and passionate as it lays at what the heart of what makes Squad truly unique. So I encourage more discussion, just be mindful of what you write!

 

B17 has a small change, with a slightly longer "minimum wait period" for Rally wave spawns, up from 20 seconds to 30 seconds. This is not a huge change, but it's part of encouraging players to move together and fight in proximity based cohesion with their squad members and team members.

 

I agree with some comments about the risk / reward incentive with regards to operating within proximity to your squad / team often feels inconsistent with the goals of Squad.

 

Here's my own personal thoughts on that: Currently there is still alot of reward for seperating off from your squad, with each individual player moving off into different angles on their own terms with little comms. That is a natural tendency of players as it requires the least amount of comms or coordination - see bad guy or hear bad guy shooting, start heading that direction.

 

Keeping squad members together, communicating and building trust that each member will cover an angle, each squad member having a job and communicating their intent, calling out enemy contacts, suppression and fire and manuver tactics - this all requires far more coordination and communication, but it' is often just not rewarded currently.

Splitting off and moving indepenndently is frequently more beneficial to working within local VoIP proximity to your squad/team mates.

Squads should be incentivized to utilize that coordination and comms, to use those 5-15 meter spacing intervals, call out targets and engage the enemy as a coordinated unit.

We Should Not be adding any additional incentivizes or rewards for Squads that spread out  50m-150m+, engaging enemy on their own terms, acting autonomously, only calling out targets after they have died, and having a "Me first" approach - this is the "status quo" of players and these types of Squads will always exist - but we don't need or want to incentivize that style of play.

That's just my own personal belief's, I'm sure others in the playerbase and even on the dev team have a different take on it.

 

To give an update on future plans, the update following b17 will address the Buddy Rally. The plan is to remove BR from all factions except Insurgents (in lieu of a more intuitive tunnel system  for INS that will hopefully come at a later time).

We also plan in the same update to address the "abandoned vehicles in the field" problem with a vehicle cleanup system, that is quite lenient but will mean vehicles that get abandoned in the field for a long time that are not next to a friendly FOB or RP, will eventually burn up. This is part of why BR was added in the first place, to decrease the chances of an entire team having to walk from Main because they got all their vehicles stuck in the field.

 

I agree that BR is a half measure / band aid mechanic, that rewards fast pace and actually rewards players dying frequently, something I'm firmly against - we should be rewarding players for striving towards that "0 death round" much more than rewarding players for hastily rushing into action over and over again with no plans , tactics or communication. The types of players that want to rush into action with no plan of action will always exist, but we don't need to give them any extra incentive there to do it.

 

Another thing we will be doing in the future, is rebalancinging the "Ticket economy", to make individual infantry lives a little more valuable. Currently alot of tickets are taken from objectives, which incentivizes their capture "At All Costs". We do want to encourage players to value their life a little more, and although this will likely be a subtle change and take a while to adopt into the standard community, it's something we are looking at.

 

Beyond that there is a bunch of stuff planned to help address things brought up in this thread. Just want to reassure you guys we are not "moving the game closer to COD". I agree the A13 changes were too drastic, and so we have taken that feedback and will not be making drastic changes in the future, but rather incremental steps, and these steps are towards rewarding more teamwork coordination and communcation using tactics and strategy to best your opponent. We want to continue adding depth to the strategic and tactical part of Squad, while also continuing to work on new player experience and making the onboarding period for new players as intuitive and natural as possible. We want to continue making a game that attracts players looking for a tactical combined arms experience that rewards communication and coordination with their squad and team.

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12 hours ago, fuzzhead said:

B17 has a small change, with a slightly longer "minimum wait period" for Rally wave spawns, up from 20 seconds to 30 seconds. This is not a huge change, but it's part of encouraging players to move together and fight in proximity based cohesion with their squad members and team members.

Again with more "solutions" that come in the form of rally nerfs. It should be no wonder why squads are becoming weaker and weaker. Also, it's not stated enough just how bad the introduction of the wave timer was for squad cohesion. That single change significantly complicated the process of getting your squad together. I really don't see the point of it at all.

 

12 hours ago, fuzzhead said:

I agree with some comments about the risk / reward incentive with regards to operating within proximity to your squad / team often feels inconsistent with the goals of Squad.

 

Here's my own personal thoughts on that: Currently there is still alot of reward for seperating off from your squad, with each individual player moving off into different angles on their own terms with little comms. That is a natural tendency of players as it requires the least amount of comms or coordination - see bad guy or hear bad guy shooting, start heading that direction.

 

Keeping squad members together, communicating and building trust that each member will cover an angle, each squad member having a job and communicating their intent, calling out enemy contacts, suppression and fire and manuver tactics - this all requires far more coordination and communication, but it' is often just not rewarded currently.

Splitting off and moving indepenndently is frequently more beneficial to working within local VoIP proximity to your squad/team mates.

Squads should be incentivized to utilize that coordination and comms, to use those 5-15 meter spacing intervals, call out targets and engage the enemy as a coordinated unit.

We Should Not be adding any additional incentivizes or rewards for Squads that spread out  50m-150m+, engaging enemy on their own terms, acting autonomously, only calling out targets after they have died, and having a "Me first" approach - this is the "status quo" of players and these types of Squads will always exist - but we don't need or want to incentivize that style of play.

That's just my own personal belief's, I'm sure others in the playerbase and even on the dev team have a different take on it.

 

I feel like this is a cynical way of looking at the playerbase. Maybe the reason the playerbase has not widespread adopted squad tactics is because they don't see benefits from it, individually or otherwise. FOBs are usually the best spawn points on the map already, so what benefit does being in a Squad provide? It doesn't help that the target of squad tactics is often these mass respawning enemy FOBs - a brick wall, which they are at huge disadvantage against operating out of just a rally. As a standard strategy, squad tactics just aren't very good.
If you aren't playing the FOB game then you aren't playing Squad. That may be the "status quo", but it's not a natural state.

 

If players benefited individually from working together in Squads then they absolutely would adopt it. It was true in PR, it's true in Post Scriptum (which is v similar to squad but keeps a very careful balance of the various spawning systems),  it's true in any number of Battle Royale games, and it should be true of any game that calls itself "Squad".

12 hours ago, fuzzhead said:

Another thing we will be doing in the future, is rebalancinging the "Ticket economy", to make individual infantry lives a little more valuable. Currently alot of tickets are taken from objectives, which incentivizes their capture "At All Costs". We do want to encourage players to value their life a little more, and although this will likely be a subtle change and take a while to adopt into the standard community, it's something we are looking at.

I'm not missing that this is a reference to PR, but c'mon, but PR also increased your respawn timer every time you died. From that (along with a lot of other hard restrictions on spawns) the message was clear: You literally cannot play this way. Squad isn't going to take that step, so why even pretend? Encouraging "0 death rounds" is an unrealistic goal for the same reason. Squad is heavily respawn based, Project Reality was not. This isn't a buff to tactics, it's a buff to kill farming.

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On 24/11/2019 at 5:23 AM, fuzzhead said:

We also plan in the same update to address the "abandoned vehicles in the field" problem with a vehicle cleanup system, that is quite lenient but will mean vehicles that get abandoned in the field for a long time that are not next to a friendly FOB or RP, will eventually burn up.

i do so hope this is just-like/same-as the Abandon function from JO:TR ... certainly sounds like it and is something i've been wanting (and asking for) added to the vehicles for over a year (along with mouse steering, hint, hint ;) ) - hoping it comes with adjustable radius and timer length.

 

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On 11/5/2019 at 11:13 PM, Atlan said:

Squad has its flaws. Although its not a major issue, the concept and development of the game is just to my liking. I'm a competitive player, and grasp various games quick, and become very good at them in a short amount of time. I' have tried countless servers, to play competitive. I have both tried the normal servers that don't require high end, but people are just really bad at the game.

I have tried high end servers, high end gameplay, where the admins enforce high end, but don't really enforce it, and let bad players ruin it. The major issue is squad leads that have no idea.

I'm no wizard, and I am no military guy, but when helicopters were added to the game, my mind was set on helicopters being used for frontal/quick attacks, /Quick habs behind enemy lines. This is the correct way to use them, but when you have squadleads with more than 3000+ hours, that use helicopters to build defence, and useless tow guns, and the admins say they enforce high end play, but do nothing I find it highly embarrassing to waste my time, and competitive spirit. 

And they let logi trucks do the frontal assaults, and habs behind enemy lines, that's not high end play. I think the major issue with players thinking they're good in this game is that they're good at shooting people, good at getting kills. And therefore to them they're the best players. Quite often that is their argument, but they lack logic, sense, and tactical approaches. 

As with many other games, its not the games that are bad, its the people that make the game bad. 

If anyone knows of a real competitive server, that have multiple people actually advancing with tactics, great tactics, who communicate, are ready, and speedy, giving up to date info, planning together, then tell me.

Because as of this point, I can't the stupidity, and ignorance of the playerbase ruined this beautiful game for me.

"Useless TOW'

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