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Watched a video of the 'helicopter inserted marksman' and I wasn't impressed by the lack of scope drift, recoil, breathing, blur and fatigue. It looked a case of repeatedly and effortlessly just placing the mouse over the target and clicking whilst racking up the kills. It really looks just like shooting eels in a barrel. I'm hoping the devs will work on this.  Although it begs the question why this hasn't been addressed yet as I would have thought it would have been a priority. I love sniping but the balance is way off and sniping is way too powerful and unrealistic. 

    

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There needs to be a weight system for weapons so heavier weapons can't be ADS'ed for prolonged periods of time unless bipoded or deployed on a piece of cover.

Either force drop out of ADS after 5 seconds(I know it's unrealistic, just as an example) or give it increased sway after 5.

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This is weighed up the fact that there are very few maps that are good for "sniping". There is always a tree or a building in the way for all good spots. Marksman is often quite useless in this game actually. 

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1. the focused, breath-held ADS view is way too stable. it's literally rock-solid. there is no falloff as Ecchi' suggests, which there should really be, yeah?  <<EDIT

 

2. a propper Encumbrance system would be good so that things like this and even movement speeds (and such) could be modified in realtime, in-game, dependant on your current encumbrance. i'm actually surprised, considering all the PR-hyped(so tactic stuffs)-pedigree, that Squad did not have one to start with.

 

EDIT: just found in the SDK; Breath Hold Fade Duration (at run out of stam.) is 1.2 seconds. so "Focus" is lost but while still In ADS.

Edited by LaughingJack

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Random recoil depending on stance when not using a bipod so you don't come back on target and require aiming correction would help. Having never fired any marksman rifle depicted in Squad I have no idea how much they actually 'kick' in reality but they seem rather tame and easier to get back on target than I would expect, especially the Dragunov.

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56 minutes ago, Major Trouble said:

Random recoil depending on stance when not using a bipod so you don't come back on target and require aiming correction would help. Having never fired any marksman rifle depicted in Squad I have no idea how much they actually 'kick' in reality but they seem rather tame and easier to get back on target than I would expect, especially the Dragunov.

I've essentially fired the L129A1, In my nations army I was issued the LMT 308MWS, The L129A1 is a variant of it, with slight accessory differences. It's pretty tame when it comes to recoil impulse. LMT designed the rifle well especially with its weight balance - With the addition of modern muzzle breaks, grips and bipods, it makes firing 7.62 Nato from Standing, crouched, prone and in a supported position a smooth experience.

I was lucky to fire off some SVD's in Afghanistan & Iraq. It's also surprisingly a smooth shooting weapon, considering it's A 1960'S design. Had a bit of kick, more so than the 308 MWS while standing but wasn't too difficult with follow up shots. From a supported or prone position, it was a breeze to shoot. 

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I'm also ex-military and I've spent my fair share of time on the ranges, so I've got good insight to how realistic/unrealistic the simulation is.   Arma3 did a pretty good job of the recoil and scopedrift, but of course, people complained because it stopped them being a god with the rifles.   

On 04/11/2019 at 9:38 AM, Dubs said:

I've essentially fired the L129A1, In my nations army I was issued the LMT 308MWS, The L129A1 is a variant of it, with slight accessory differences. It's pretty tame when it comes to recoil impulse. LMT designed the rifle well especially with its weight balance - With the addition of modern muzzle breaks, grips and bipods, it makes firing 7.62 Nato from Standing, crouched, prone and in a supported position a smooth experience.

I was lucky to fire off some SVD's in Afghanistan & Iraq. It's also surprisingly a smooth shooting weapon, considering it's A 1960'S design. Had a bit of kick, more so than the 308 MWS while standing but wasn't too difficult with follow up shots. From a supported or prone position, it was a breeze to shoot. 

 

On 02/11/2019 at 12:53 PM, EcchiRevenge said:

There needs to be a weight system for weapons so heavier weapons can't be ADS'ed for prolonged periods of time unless bipoded or deployed on a piece of cover.

Either force drop out of ADS after 5 seconds(I know it's unrealistic, just as an example) or give it increased sway after 5.

Anyone who believes that Squad's current simulation of sniping with a sniper's rifle is anything but an arcade game is deluded.

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On 04/11/2019 at 8:38 PM, Dubs said:

I've essentially fired the L129A1, In my nations army I was issued the LMT 308MWS, The L129A1 is a variant of it, with slight accessory differences. It's pretty tame when it comes to recoil impulse. LMT designed the rifle well especially with its weight balance - With the addition of modern muzzle breaks, grips and bipods, it makes firing 7.62 Nato from Standing, crouched, prone and in a supported position a smooth experience.

I was lucky to fire off some SVD's in Afghanistan & Iraq. It's also surprisingly a smooth shooting weapon, considering it's A 1960'S design. Had a bit of kick, more so than the 308 MWS while standing but wasn't too difficult with follow up shots. From a supported or prone position, it was a breeze to shoot. 

so Dubs, what do you think of the weightyness of the weapons - the seeming ease to ADS accurately - compared to bringing a real gun to ADS?

i ask because i've only ever .22'ed bunnies (bipods being a ute or fencepost if lucky <press C to deploy fencepost>) and even though i was highly inexperienced and a teen at the time, i found it not-so-easy to actually ADS and hold really steady, as it is depicted in the game (unless ute/post, OC).

professional soldiers, as we're playing in game, can do this without blinking but i was just wondering if there is much difference or is it unrealistic in-game?

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19 hours ago, LaughingJack said:

so Dubs, what do you think of the weightyness of the weapons - the seeming ease to ADS accurately - compared to bringing a real gun to ADS?

i ask because i've only ever .22'ed bunnies (bipods being a ute or fencepost if lucky <press C to deploy fencepost>) and even though i was highly inexperienced and a teen at the time, i found it not-so-easy to actually ADS and hold really steady, as it is depicted in the game (unless ute/post, OC).

professional soldiers, as we're playing in game, can do this without blinking but i was just wondering if there is much difference or is it unrealistic in-game?

Even if you're using a bipod, once the weapon fires the recoil throws your last scoped target off.  You're then having to reshoulder the weapon,  realign your eye through the sights, control your breath whilst also possibly shuffling your legs around if your new target isn't near where you last shot. Your body has to lay naturally inline of your target.  You cannot forcefully hold the rifle left or right to where you last shot as it will throw off the aim when the rifle's fired.  Same when you squeeze the trigger.  You have to slowly depress the trigger oppose to snatching it.  Sniping requires the shooter to be calm and relaxed.  If you have adrenaline you'll have better luck throwing the rifle at your target.  

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cheers @Infiltrator. was thinking about all the weapons though (even if this thread)

 

4 hours ago, Infiltrator said:

If you have adrenaline you'll have better luck throwing the rifle at your target

rgr tht! :D;)

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On 11/6/2019 at 11:39 AM, LaughingJack said:

so Dubs, what do you think of the weightyness of the weapons - the seeming ease to ADS accurately - compared to bringing a real gun to ADS?

i ask because i've only ever .22'ed bunnies (bipods being a ute or fencepost if lucky <press C to deploy fencepost>) and even though i was highly inexperienced and a teen at the time, i found it not-so-easy to actually ADS and hold really steady, as it is depicted in the game (unless ute/post, OC).

professional soldiers, as we're playing in game, can do this without blinking but i was just wondering if there is much difference or is it unrealistic in-game?

There's a lot of variables in place, I'll explain how recoil works as it's actually quite interesting in how it affects accuracy and follow up shots. I'll put it in a spoiler because this might be a long post.
 

Spoiler

 

Muzzle rise is caused by the contact points of the shooter being below the weapons center of mass mixed with the force caused by expanding gases being above. When you shoot, the expanding gases send recoil impulses directly backwards, the main points of contact(Shoulder/Stock and Hand/grip) are directly below the center mass of the weapon, this mixed with the shooter exerting force forward to control the impulse directs all forces towards the center of mass, creating the muzzle rise. Weapons with better weight distribution can ultimately further help recoil as there's more weight in places helping to counteract the differing forces.
 

Obviously larger calibers and higher rate of fire will also decide on recoil occurring, then if you have a high magnification optic slapped on the weapon that also plays a role as it increases perceived recoil due to it's magnification.
 

Rested weapons create new points of contact forward, allows better distribution of the force created by backwards and forward forces, hence why muzzle rise doesn't seem as much compared to a weapon shooting unsupported.

Like Infiltrator said, firing from a bipod there will be sight shift, where the irons or optic will shift off of original point of aim due to the above, but not as much as say firing from a crouched or standing position with the weapon not being rested on something. Higher the magnification, the higher the sight shift. Irons or lower magnification are easier since the sights kind of just slightly bounce off and then fall back on original POA. The shooter also plays a big part making sure he's got correct posture and control over the weapon, as with more heavy duty longer range optics, parallax errors can happen due to the shooters posture or weapons shifting.

ADS in reality for any firearm, whether it be a long rifle, an assault rifle, a pistol, an LMG etc It comes down to 
- Weapon weight
- Weapon length
- Optic used on weapon
- Shooters experience
- Shooters form
- Shooters exhaustion 

Bringing an M4 up with an ACOG will be far easier and faster than say bringing up a 308 MWS with a Leupold 4.5-14× and maintaining sights on target during the shooting phases. Now an M4 with say a CCO(Red dot) will be far easier to do the above because a new element of sight profile allowing easier target acquisition(well until longer range targets are being engage). Due to differing weapon profile, optics and caliber. Shooter experience plays a big role, but that comes down to another list of variables in itself.

Then there's the aspect of shooter fatigue, heavier weapons will bring on arm fatigue faster, but then there's also the aspect of general fatigue. Moving kilometers through high temperatures or sprinting to cover and returning fire will also affect the shooters ability to do the above as your body will be causing additional movement when firing. But in saying that, there are effective methods to learn to deal with this aspect or to reduce the time fatigue is affecting things.

 

 

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