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Noobgamer

Make "suppression" logical again!

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So here's what happens in the game: you have two riflemen started shooting each other at a range greater than 50m at the same time. A, an experienced and calm player, fired controlled and well-aimed single shots hitting B first, while B, like a noob he was, fired automatically in panic and naturally missed every shot. Suddenly, A completely forgot that he wasn't injured like B and had far more rounds left in his magazine, and simply went panic as well throwing off his aim. Just as that happened, B landed one lucky head shot after missing tens of shots, thus coming out of the fight victorious. Basically, the game taught you that if you fired in pure panic, getting hit first and missed most of your shots, you would survive because logic!

 

To avoid such stupidity, suppression only comes into effect on a player if:

He was getting shot at by players whom he wasn't already shooting at;

    or

He got hit first, in which case his returning fire would have zero suppression effect on the enemy who shot him until he can later land a shot as well.

 

Also: Between two players shooting each other, the one that missed more shots should panic first and basically "suppress himself".

Edited by Noobgamer

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Just remove suppression from anything that isn't a machine gun or higher. No more rifles/pistols etc.

 

MG's, GPMGS and up.

 

Would make things alot simpler.

Edited by oTec

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I would not mind if when the player get's shot, you get a sort of cramp forcing your gun to sway down or something for a second. It really feels stupid when you shoot somebody in the groin twice but that last bullet of his spray taking you out. I have this problem allot when an enemy pops up close in front of me. Just something to indicate pain, audible as well.

 

When somebody shoots me twice in the groin and i take him down in total panic i kind of feel great though...

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3 hours ago, Noobgamer said:

So here's what happens in the game: you have two riflemen started shooting each other at a range greater than 50m at the same time. A, an experienced and calm player, fired controlled and well-aimed single shots hitting B first, while B, like a noob he was, fired automatically in panic and naturally missed every shot. Suddenly, A completely forgot that he wasn't injured like B and had far more rounds left in his magazine, and simply went panic as well throwing off his aim. Just as that happened, B landed one lucky head shot after missing tens of shots, thus coming out of the fight victorious. Basically, the game taught you that if you fired in pure panic, getting hit first and missed most of your shots, you would survive because logic!

 

To avoid such stupidity, suppression only comes into effect on a player if:

He was getting shot at by players whom he wasn't already shooting at;

    or

He got hit first, in which case his returning fire would have zero suppression effect on the enemy who shot him until he can later land a shot as well.

 

Also: Between two players shooting each other, the one that missed more shots should panic first and basically "suppress himself".

Suppression has nothing to do with people getting hit. 

 

What you want is reaction to getting hit. That´s a different mechanich that should be implemened somehow.

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Suppression is at decent place right now, desires of TS have nothing to do with logic.

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20 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

Suppression has nothing to do with people getting hit. 

 

What you want is reaction to getting hit. That´s a different mechanich that should be implemened somehow.

The point of my argument was that the one firing more effectively, i.e., firing well-aimed single shots hitting the opponent first, might lose due to suppression-induced RNG.

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The suppression does not exist in Squad. Unfortunately

It is so low as to be unperceivable

Edited by Tmac

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8 minutes ago, Tmac said:

The suppression does not exist in Squad. Unfortunately

It is so low as to be unperceivable

Suppression is very much so in Squad. Someone recently made a video showcasing it


The problem is, people are expecting a single rifle to send the enemy into a seizure, which Squad suppression isn't intending to do. It's designed around rate of fire, caliber and volume, to make people work together while also giving use to higher caliber support weapons. For example three rifles shooting fully-auto at a single person, has similar suppression to that of a single support weapon shooting at someone.

An issue I see all the time is - An LMG lies prone on top of a hill or building, then sprays at enemy 300m away to suppress them. Sits in the same spot sky lining, then gets one tapped. I can guarantee the people he was shooting had quite hefty suppression effects slapped down on them, but all they had to do was reposition 10m outside of the impacts for the suppression effects to not apply to them anymore, and then they just lined up the LMG and tapped him.



 

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23 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

Suppression has nothing to do with people getting hit. 

 

What you want is reaction to getting hit. That´s a different mechanich that should be implemened somehow.

Aim punch, if you get hit would be quite nice to be honest.

 

For Supression i have mixed feelings because somtimes it works and at other times it won't.

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3 hours ago, Noobgamer said:

The point of my argument was that the one firing more effectively, i.e., firing well-aimed single shots hitting the opponent first, might lose due to suppression-induced RNG.

I get your point. But what you´re sayig about suppression is unrelated. Supression Works fine, what the game needs is a reaction to getting shot. 

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Just going to the crouch position with a cry of pain would already be something, with a second of gun sway.

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On 30.10.2019 at 10:02 AM, oTec said:

Just remove suppression from anything that isn't a machine gun or higher. No more rifles/pistols etc.

 

MG's, GPMGS and up.

 

Would make things alot simpler.

This!

or just a visual effect.

Supression really destroys the infantry gameplay.

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5 hours ago, Ikarus said:

This!

or just a visual effect.

Supression really destroys the infantry gameplay.

Supression is at the heart of infantry units infantry tactics. 

 

And you think it ruins the gameplay? How? Why? 

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4 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

Supression is at the heart of infantry units infantry tactics. 

 

And you think it ruins the gameplay? How? Why? 

Supression was added like v12 or so...

it worked way better before. Now we only have these joke battles where two enemy's shooting at each other and no one can hit because the guns are shaking like wild.

also its stupid, that you aren't able to counter enemy's who shot first on you.

the only valid tactic is to lay down to reduce the gun shaking and try to get some lucky hits.

This is surely not the "heart of infantry units tactics". It's just super stupid and not skill based at all.

Give the supressed infantry some kind of tunnel vision but don't take away the ability to counter.

The gun shaking mechanic in general is really the worst. This randomness is totally destroying the motivation of getting better with your aim. It's a game and not a Parkinson simulator.

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Too much feelings, no facts or even basic attempts to test/evaluate actual values and effect. Did you even watch the suggested video?

Suppression by one rifle in terms of sway is close to non existent until distances of 200m.

 

Suppression by LMG/heavier weapons are in the game to provide framework of teamwork, you aren't suppose to peak kill them when they engage you. Their Area Effect is very limited, so staying away ~20m from fire line will not apply suppression at all.


Removing increased sway from suppression will bring the game even closer to "Best shooter always win", reduce benefit of teamwork of fire concentration (even when you don't see the target), give ability to peak and win engagements against MG/multiple enemies while under suppression, i.e. will make Rambo life even closer.


The real problems in the current suppression are 1. "Remote directional suppression", when you get suppressed by enemy shooting but rounds not flying/hitting even 100m close to you (or through multiple walls)
2. "Magic friendly fire identifying" when I know It's friendly shooting cuz I'm not suppressed 

Edited by paragonid

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3 hours ago, Ikarus said:

Supression was added like v12 or so...

it worked way better before. Now we only have these joke battles where two enemy's shooting at each other and no one can hit because the guns are shaking like wild.

also its stupid, that you aren't able to counter enemy's who shot first on you.

the only valid tactic is to lay down to reduce the gun shaking and try to get some lucky hits.

This is surely not the "heart of infantry units tactics". It's just super stupid and not skill based at all.

Give the supressed infantry some kind of tunnel vision but don't take away the ability to counter.

The gun shaking mechanic in general is really the worst. This randomness is totally destroying the motivation of getting better with your aim. It's a game and not a Parkinson simulator.

+1

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6 hours ago, Ikarus said:

the only valid tactic is to lay down to reduce the gun shaking and try to get some lucky hits.

This is surely not the "heart of infantry units tactics". It's just super stupid and not skill based at all.

The only valid tactic? That's a narrow minded approach to a game like squad. Every encounter with the enemy is so much more complex than "I shot first therefore I should win."

 

I keep seeing people posting about aspects of the game not being "skill based" enough. What does that even mean? It seems to me that people are taking their skills from other games (Battlefield, Insurgency, etc.) and expecting them to apply to Squad just as much. In my opinion Squad is a completely different animal. Your success in this game does not and should not rely solely on your skillful ability to head-shot someone with a flick of your wrist. The skills I find myself applying the most are things like critical thinking and tactics. Why should you have to engage an enemy head on when you can outmaneuver him, taking him out before he even knows you're there?

 

Suppression is a critical part of the game's combat that adds another level of depth to a firefight. There is definitely a fine balance between realism (another term I think gets thrown around far too much on this forum) and the fact that we are playing a game. A game that stands out from the crowd due to mechanics such as suppression.

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On 10/30/2019 at 1:02 AM, Noobgamer said:

Basically, the game taught you that if you fired in pure panic, getting hit first and missed most of your shots, you would survive because logic!

 

On 10/30/2019 at 1:02 AM, Noobgamer said:

B landed one lucky head shot

Luck is the antithesis of logic. The game taught you nothing except that life is unpredictable and stupid.

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20 hours ago, Ikarus said:

 

Also its stupid, that you aren't able to counter enemy's who shot first on you.

the only valid tactic is to lay down to reduce the gun shaking and try to get some lucky hits.

This is surely not the "heart of infantry units tactics". 

Yes. It is. Precisely for you are saying. Suppression Works because when you achieve "fire superiority" over the enemy, the enemy can´t response. He has become SUPPRESSED.

This IS at the heart of infantry unit tactics.

 

Maybe you don´t like it and you prefer some other kind of shooter. But it is PRECISELY that. Otheerwise, Why would they call it "suppression"???

 

20 hours ago, Ikarus said:

the only valid tactic is to lay down to reduce the gun shaking and try to get some lucky hits.

You have other options. First of all change your approach. While suppressed you shouldnt be trying to get some "lucky hits". You shouldn´t be going for "hits" at all. Just identify where the enemy is firing from, and if it´s safe enough to peak for a second to send some that way, you do and get cover again. You do that until the enemy get´s the effects of suppression and stops firing at you or you feel he stops firing accurately. 

 

Then it´s when you go for precise "hits". After you have achieved fire superiority.

 

All this within the context of other members of a Squad Works pretty instinctively once you have all become used to infantry tactics. It can even work if you are lonewolfing against another lonewolf.

 

20 hours ago, Ikarus said:

The gun shaking mechanic in general is really the worst. This randomness is totally destroying the motivation of getting better with your aim. It's a game and not a Parkinson simulator.

Skill is exaclty what is required to overcome this. 

 

Maybe not the kind of skill you want to see in a game. But skill is by definition required.

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Suppression is right at Goldilocks spot in my opinion. Plus it's super effective on any map that has verticality and good sights lines like Logar, Kohat or Mestia.

 

Case in point, sustained suppressive fire often times drives the opposing team bonkers as well to the point where they'll literally send an entire squad after a single person in an MRAP or Technical perched up on a hill at the edge the map just to get them to stop it. Hilarious.

 

 

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Firefights is pretty much sending a lot of bullets in the general direction of the enemy and hope some of them hit their target. in Vietnam it took 50000 rounds to get one kill (if i remember it correctly). A very valid tactic is to shoot so much that the enemy is unable to respond and choose to retreat or surrender (if they arent killed). Squad have a pretty decent modeling of suppressing effect. Correctly deployed a squad can use its MG:s with great effectiveness when attacking (or defending) a point.

In general players are very bad at using suppression to their advantage, most player only shoot at enemies if they think that they can kill them. But suppressing them and thus give your squadmates a chance to push in and kill them is just as viable.

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