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Elitesqueak

An Idea for being sneaky

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I believe that adding a stealthy or 'special operations' class to the game would change up the meta a bit. It could be similar to the scout, in that it is equipped with sabotage equipment such as IEDs or even a kind of adhesive anti-armour charge to slap on enemy tanks and surprise the enemy later on. They would have some kind of suppressed SMG or PDW for covert operations and would essentially fill the role of CQC flankers (They could also have some kind of insta-kill backstab knife attack but that would probably ruin the meta. Also, for all the people out there who think this promotes going off on your own instead of working in a squad, wouldn't it be better for them to be using a role specifically designed for roaming, rather than them taking up a valuable marksman kit that would be better used for supporting the squad). They would probably have about as much availibility as marksmen, as this would stop large swarms of them running off in all directions at once. I would appreciate feedback so I can refine and improve this idea and my future ideas (as this is my first idea).

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3 hours ago, Elitesqueak said:

a kind of adhesive anti-armour charge to slap on enemy tanks

would be good if all placable explosives could simply "Attach To Underlying Actor" (assume they're all 'sticky')

3 hours ago, Elitesqueak said:

suppressed SMG

yeah, i'd love an MP5-s, tbh.

 

having said that, there is no reason why the existing Scout-type classes cannot be used for stealthy work; i think it comes down to peeps using the classes that way and it being acceptable by SL's and such. i have seen numerous times in vids where peeps do just what you're describing. the Devs, and many others, have already made it pretty clear that "SpecOps" will never be added in as it's not in line with the general theme of what Squad is meant to be.

i am modding my Scout classes to be closer to what you ask: suppressed smg (eventually), charges and an outlook to misbehave behind lines - simple changes to the Role.

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9 hours ago, Elitesqueak said:

I believe that adding a stealthy or 'special operations' class to the game would change up the meta a bit. It could be similar to the scout, in that it is equipped with sabotage equipment such as IEDs or even a kind of adhesive anti-armour charge to slap on enemy tanks and surprise the enemy later on. They would have some kind of suppressed SMG or PDW for covert operations and would essentially fill the role of CQC flankers (They could also have some kind of insta-kill backstab knife attack but that would probably ruin the meta. Also, for all the people out there who think this promotes going off on your own instead of working in a squad, wouldn't it be better for them to be using a role specifically designed for roaming, rather than them taking up a valuable marksman kit that would be better used for supporting the squad). They would probably have about as much availibility as marksmen, as this would stop large swarms of them running off in all directions at once. I would appreciate feedback so I can refine and improve this idea and my future ideas (as this is my first idea).

There’s zero reason for a kit like that to ever be added. The proposed gap that it’s filling doesn’t exist, there’s zero reason to promote even more people running off on their own on ineffective and suicidal ventures anymore than the game rampantly already suffers from. 

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2 hours ago, Dockside Bars said:

there’s zero reason to promote even more people running off on their own on ineffective and suicidal ventures anymore than the game rampantly already suffers from. 

Maybe I should have been more clear: when I say that they would run off on their own, I mean that their actual mission i.e sabotage would be done on their own, maybe with a couple of riflemen, however still recieving orders from the SL. Therefore they are still working for the team, but not in a team. Like the sniper kit for Canada.

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13 hours ago, Elitesqueak said:

I believe that adding a stealthy or 'special operations' class to the game would change up the meta a bit. It could be similar to the scout, in that it is equipped with sabotage equipment such as IEDs or even a kind of adhesive anti-armour charge to slap on enemy tanks and surprise the enemy later on. They would have some kind of suppressed SMG or PDW for covert operations and would essentially fill the role of CQC flankers (They could also have some kind of insta-kill backstab knife attack but that would probably ruin the meta. Also, for all the people out there who think this promotes going off on your own instead of working in a squad, wouldn't it be better for them to be using a role specifically designed for roaming, rather than them taking up a valuable marksman kit that would be better used for supporting the squad). They would probably have about as much availibility as marksmen, as this would stop large swarms of them running off in all directions at once. I would appreciate feedback so I can refine and improve this idea and my future ideas (as this is my first idea).

Claims and requests like this are proof that SQUAD has attracted a more arcade oriented group of players and now is struggling to find its identity.

 

There´s also some people asking for "smaller maps" because they are the "most popular" since they have instant action.

 

There was even somebody asking for the logi truck to be driven by AI and some others who wanted things to be built automatically, so no "gaming time" was spent away "from the action"

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P

2 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

Claims and requests like this are proof that SQUAD has attracted a more arcade oriented group of players and now is struggling to find its identity.

 

There´s also some people asking for "smaller maps" because they are the "most popular" since they have instant action.

 

There was even somebody asking for the logi truck to be driven by AI and some others who wanted things to be built automatically, so no "gaming time" was spent away "from the action"

On the other hand though from a true "realistic" standpoint pretty much all of the simulations in both Squad and PR are completely made up fantasy engagements that would never occur in real life though. Especially regarding the supposedly "symmetrical" matchups between Russia and the USA for example which make very little sense at all considering key elements of CAS are completely missing, nevermind the tiny scale at which they're occuring.

 

And that's completely disregarding the fact that in both Squad and PR you Star Trek materialize all over the map in Arcade fashion as well.

 

Needless to say, the only engagements that would even remotely make sense within the context of a 40vs40 conflict  would be an unconventional battle between heavy armed special operations forces and local insurgent forces.

 

Bottom line there are no conventional units consisting of this makeup. That's why at least the Delta Force games kind of made sense in that respect.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Elitesqueak said:

Maybe I should have been more clear: when I say that they would run off on their own, I mean that their actual mission i.e sabotage would be done on their own, maybe with a couple of riflemen, however still recieving orders from the SL. Therefore they are still working for the team, but not in a team. Like the sniper kit for Canada.

A single guy wandering around on the map looking for stuff to sabotage isn’t going to go very well. You’re going to be grossly outnumbered and ill-equipped to fight anything short of a single guy, and any attempt at stealth is going to be nullified by the fact information can still be passed when downed, which will mean anyone with a pulse will converge on you once you are spotted or kill someone. Working with riflemen also nullifies the use of a suppressed weapon, since anyone else that fires with you will give your position away. 
 

At present, there’s just too many gameplay mechanics that hamper attempts at stealth, the biggest being anyone can open their map and see when and where someone was killed, or the fact people can still communicate with their squad when downed. So unless you manage to slip through enemy lines undetected, the moment you’re seen or you kill someone, you’re compromised. 

Edited by Dockside Bars

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5 hours ago, Dockside Bars said:

A single guy wandering around on the map looking for stuff to sabotage isn’t going to go very well.

seen it happen in rather a few vids lately - quite effective (FOB/HAB hunters, instigated by the SL, running as a solo FT).

5 hours ago, Dockside Bars said:

You’re going to be grossly outnumbered and ill-equipped to fight anything short of a single guy, and any attempt at stealth is going to be nullified by the fact information can still be passed when downed, which will mean anyone with a pulse will converge on you once you are spotted or kill someone.

if you're bad at stealth, yes.

5 hours ago, Dockside Bars said:

At present, there’s just too many gameplay mechanics that hamper attempts at stealth, the biggest being anyone can open their map and see when and where someone was killed, or the fact people can still communicate with their squad when downed.

communicating where a player went down is of little help if the attacker is effectively hidden. this is also hilarious in the face of all those peeps complaining they can't see anybody because of foliage and lighting.

5 hours ago, Dockside Bars said:

So unless you manage to slip through enemy lines undetected, the moment you’re seen or you kill someone, you’re compromised. 

not necissarily.

 

oh, and there's this: " Like the sniper kit for Canada. " - before anyone else does solo'ing-is-bad-m'kay.

 

i'm not defending the OP's idea, as such, just pointing to a different opinion. i played a number of years, pub & comp in a clan, as a "stealthy" player in JO, many times without the stealthy accoutrement.

imho, Squad is eminently open to this style (if not class) of play and can be highly effective if you're not a complete peanut.

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I'm kinda of the a opinion that there should be no other classes added to the game at this point, especially the 'special forces/commando/whatever' types. With all the specialized classes we see in the current version of the game, too often am I forced to fight a dude to pick up a medic kit or a rifleman kit to keep my AT guys and medics supplied.

 

I really never enjoyed how the combat engineer turned out, most of the time, I see some dude pick it up only to run of 200 yards from the squad to place down a random mine or fob hunt. Some special forces saboteur would only encourage this tactic. Taking out fobs behind enemy lines can help the team tremendously, especially in those 'every ticket counts' matches, but nothing is more annoying than losing a whole fob out of nowhere because some guy was able to sneak in and bomb the radio. This style of play may help the team but encourages a play style that is opposite to the core aim of Squad (as I see it).

 

Maybe I just miss the days where everyone would stick together without having to micromanage a couple of them.

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2 hours ago, LaughingJack said:

seen it happen in rather a few vids lately - quite effective (FOB/HAB hunters, instigated by the SL, running as a solo FT).

if you're bad at stealth, yes.

communicating where a player went down is of little help if the attacker is effectively hidden. this is also hilarious in the face of all those peeps complaining they can't see anybody because of foliage and lighting.

not necissarily.

 

oh, and there's this: " Like the sniper kit for Canada. " - before anyone else does solo'ing-is-bad-m'kay.

 

i'm not defending the OP's idea, as such, just pointing to a different opinion. i played a number of years, pub & comp in a clan, as a "stealthy" player in JO, many times without the stealthy accoutrement.

imho, Squad is eminently open to this style (if not class) of play and can be highly effective if you're not a complete peanut.

A few videos shouldn’t be indicative of the overall success of a tactic. Solo operations in Squad is an overwhelmingly lopsided affair, which is why the game is played with the intent of working with a squad of players.
 

Just because the attacker is well concealed, doesn’t mean they aren’t now compromised. That player could’ve easily alerted their SL who alerted other squads to the fact there is a player attacking a location or moving around to disrupt operations. And just like stealth is gone. 
 

Squad doesn’t need commando style kits. If you really want to run around and try to disrupt operations with demolitions, use an Engineer kit.  Adding a brand new kit for the sake of encouraging more soloing and lone wolfing is pointless. This game already has a big enough issue with people straying from objectives or wandering around areas with little of no importance and depriving the team of much needed defenders or attackers. 

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On 22/10/2019 at 11:49 AM, Dockside Bars said:

A few videos shouldn’t be indicative of the overall success of a tactic.

only needed to watch a "few" rush-meta vids to know it was a successful tactic.

On 22/10/2019 at 11:49 AM, Dockside Bars said:

That player could’ve easily alerted their SL ....

"SL, i down, naded from ... somewhere" - or something along similar lines - yeah that'll really pinpoint that enemy, every time, for sure, no worries, take it to the bank.

i do get that most peeps will be spotted or locked-down to an area, happens all the time, totally agree, but what is being discussed here is being stealthy.

"that player" could only effect real intel if they actually know what happened and where it came from - are you trying to infer that all players are all-seeing all of the time?

your arguments hold up only if the attacking peep stops and stays put (to be spotted/caught) after causing mischief.

On 22/10/2019 at 11:49 AM, Dockside Bars said:

Squad doesn’t need commando style kits.

you're 100% dead-right, because Scout, or Engi'.

 

 

On 28/10/2019 at 7:54 AM, EcchiRevenge said:

If you're good enough; you don't need to fire a single shot until you take down the radio.

exactly this.

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