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tazaa

Should implement for everyone’s sake

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Just wondering if this game was going to get getting destruction..

 

game base it self on so much life like content . And I’m sure it’s why everyone is switching over from generic shooters..

 

is this game going to be getting one base Element needed for a more realistic feel

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If destruction were planned, it would need to be implemented from the very start of the game's development. Games like Battlefield basically run on a game engine that's built around destruction, UE4 is not, neither is Squad.

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2 hours ago, paragonid said:

I'll just leave it here

 

 

Go ask UE4 Devs if that works with 80+ players.

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30 minutes ago, Melbo said:

Go ask UE4 Devs if that works with 80+ players.

exactly. someone sees a showcase and assumes it must be awesome in every way.

 

tho it would be hella fun!

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4 minutes ago, paragonid said:

All visuals client side.

Server side boolean for destroyed state.
 

Ah yes. If only it were that simple.

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2 minutes ago, Melbo said:

Ah yes. If only it were that simple.

I barely was answering to "Games like Battlefield basically run on a game engine that's built around destruction, UE4 is not". Never said it's simple, neither did topic author. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six® Siege did a decent work in the field.

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Just now, paragonid said:

I barely was answering to "Games like Battlefield basically run on a game engine that's built around destruction, UE4 is not". Never said it's simple, neither did topic author. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six® Siege did a decent work in the field.

RB6 Siege can get away with it, as the maps are small and they have more control over bandwidth on that scale. They built their game with destruction in mind, as it was a main feature they planned for. It's also a lot easier replicating mass destruction on small maps to 10 clients, than mass destruction on large maps  with tonnes of assets needing to be made destructible while still needing to be replicated to 80 clients(soon 100) as well as replicating properly to players who join in progress.

Their game engine is in-house too, so allows them to cater towards destruction more easily compared to something like UE4.

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57 minutes ago, Dubs said:

RB6 Siege can get away with it, as the maps are small and they have more control over bandwidth on that scale. They built their game with destruction in mind, as it was a main feature they planned for. It's also a lot easier replicating mass destruction on small maps to 10 clients, than mass destruction on large maps  with tonnes of assets needing to be made destructible while still needing to be replicated to 80 clients(soon 100) as well as replicating properly to players who join in progress.

Their game engine is in-house too, so allows them to cater towards destruction more easily compared to something like UE4.


> have more control over bandwidth on that scale
What do you need bandwidth for in the staged destruction? 1 bit for every destructable fence on the map?

> It's also a lot easier replicating mass destruction on small maps to 10 clients, than mass destruction on large maps  with tonnes of assets needing to be made destructible while still needing to be replicated to 80 clients(soon 100) as well as replicating properly to players who join in progress.
why? how staged destruction is harder to replicate for any amount? if all clients need to know is that object is destroyed, how is it different from displaying bullet holes for multiple clients?

It's all sound the same as "weapon resting is heavy on server tick" argument while PS is having it.
In any way, I already know that it's not gonna be implemented for different reasons, it's not my intention to persuade anyone or be persuaded. "We never planned for it" is the answer for me. All the technical responses are mere finger pointing.

Edited by paragonid

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1 hour ago, paragonid said:

Somebody did, I googled. https://forums.unrealengine.com/community/general-discussion/1555586-unreal-engine-4-and-multiplayer-destruction
All visuals client side.

Server side boolean for destroyed state.
 

 

Unless the destruction is pre scripted,  meaning every single piece of debris always falls the same way and lands in the same spot,  this won't work.

 

Because....

 

On your screen a chunk fell that you can hide behind... on my screen you are laying out in the open because the destruction was different.

 

On my screen threre are chunks of building between us which I can't shoot through... on yours it is just slight rubble and you have an open view of me.

 

On your screen you are standing on a piece of fallen debris.... on mine you are floating in the air.

 

I can go on and on... visuals client side don't work unless the destruction is scripted,  which would honestly look lame.

Edited by Thr34t

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Nobody here asked to have debris staying after destruction. Nobody asked to have collision on debris or synchronize them on different clients. Squad even have wounded bodies desynced client-side, don't see you complaining anywhere about it?

Edited by paragonid

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1 minute ago, paragonid said:


> have more control over bandwidth on that scale
What do you need bandwidth for in the staged destruction? 

> It's also a lot easier replicating mass destruction on small maps to 10 clients, than mass destruction on large maps  with tonnes of assets needing to be made destructible while still needing to be replicated to 80 clients(soon 100) as well as replicating properly to players who join in progress.
why? how staged destruction is harder to replicate for any amount? if all clients need to know is that object is destroyed, how is it different from displaying bullet holes for multiple clients?

No matter how you do destruction, there's server side involvement required. RB6 Siege you can blow out majority of walls, floors, doors, windows and each of those destructible locations need to be replicated when destroyed to each client, that requires the server. Just like every deployable has to as well.  The more things able to be destroyed, the more the server has to work to keep this up to date, and replicate it to all clients involved. The more players, the higher chance of replication being an issue. The larger the map, the more destructible things, the more the server has to work to correctly replicate it to each person.

Client sided visuals create their own issues, for example think of smoke grenades that are client sided. On X players screen smoke is covering his position, on Y players screen he can see X player because on his screen the smoke is different. Now think of destruction and debri's etc Only way it works if it's completely scripted like Battlefields levolution, but again on a mass scale the more assets you add, the more the server has to keep track.

Destruction isn't simple to implement, each way has it's pro's and con's, and things get far more difficult if the scale of the game is larger and more players are involved. Then there's the side of keeping things fair. On top of development time and resources having to be considered. 

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ermm  ...

 

" What is someone's best guess for the bandwidth used for destroying those 50,000 destructible objects with a server of  50  players? "

 

...  just sayin'.

 

IMO, no to destruction. because @Thr34t & @Dubs have it up pretty much perfectly explained, above. and because of this; " I can go on and on... visuals client side don't work unless the destruction is scripted,  which would honestly look lame."

full dynamic destruction would be, i assume, what the OP is looking for, considering he's looking for a more realistic feel.

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On 10/15/2019 at 11:37 AM, Dubs said:

Destruction isn't simple to implement, each way has it's pro's and con's, and things get far more difficult if the scale of the game is larger and more players are involved. Then there's the side of keeping things fair. On top of development time and resources having to be considered. 

This.

 

I remember when Bad Company first touted destructible scenery as the next big thing, courtesy of Frostbite. Was it neat at first? Sure.

 

Its never been that great, though, and there were always exceptions to how widely it operated, and just what could actually be destroyed. I ended up growing frustrated with it. Shanghai's central tower in BF4 springs to mind. This was the pinnacle of levolution at the time. But its grandeur was its own downfall. It didn't matter what the actual objective was, the sole foci of each team in that map was always destroying that tower. It made each round in Shangai a repetitive, mundane, brawling shitstorm - so much so I ended up just playing as commander so I could tomahawk the morons jostling over the roof.

 

I'm hoping Squad ends up being so much more than that.

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2 hours ago, Bachelor_Chow said:

I remember when Bad Company first touted destructible scenery as the next big thing, courtesy of Frostbite. Was it neat at first? Sure.

i was going to say the similar; looked cool for about 5 minutes then looked staged and a bit NQR.

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The only destruction i really want to see would be bridges and stuff. With the ability to repair them i suppose.

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18 minutes ago, Guan_Yu007 said:

The only destruction i really want to see would be bridges and stuff. With the ability to repair them i suppose.

Just was thinking about that,this makes sense. In JointOps(Later Ver or mod) we could blowup bridges & even some trees,maybe @LaughingJack can confirm on this but I would be totally satisfied just having this & it would be Fun.

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25 minutes ago, Guan_Yu007 said:

The only destruction i really want to see would be bridges and stuff. With the ability to repair them i suppose.

IIRC minor destruction is something OWI might look into post 1.0, when they know how much performance room they have after all the planned systems/features are implemented. They have mentioned previously, that destructible bridges and doors being on their want list.

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10 hours ago, Xx-RAGING-DEATH-xX said:

In JointOps(Later Ver or mod) we could blowup bridges & even some trees

from memory: in Typhoon Rising we could satchel bridges but nothing else, iirc. non-dynamic destruction would break the (smaller)bridge so most vics could not use it unless they jumped over using the broken (rampy) bit; the big bridge used to do the same but from memory would create a blast radius as well, so keep clear when she blows.  in Escalation (or a patch thereof, iirc) we could satchel trees as well - clearing forest was a lot of fun ;)

 

FunFact: once someone double-stacheled the big bridge in Kekoa Crossroads (might have been the Industrial map, tho), while there was a vic on it - awesome massive expolsion (stachels and exploding vic combined/stacked) -  the hilarious thing was that when it happened, the expolsion appeared to kill virtually everyone in-game regardless of where they were; some of us were half a k away at the time (wtf was that! what killed me!  ... that sort of thing from like 20-30 guys all at once - funny af).

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On 10/14/2019 at 4:16 PM, paragonid said:

All visuals client side.

Would look cool initially but something being in the way for player 1 and not for player 2 isn't fun gameplay wise.

I remember that was an issue long ago for Rainbow Six Siege when I played where for one guy the window boards may be blown out but the other guy's boards didn't fall entirely. Guy1 can see straight through the window and kill guy2 when guy2 sees a boarded window.

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