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maze2

Lack of tactical play (sometimes)read it all pls

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Whenever I SL I love to be as friendly as possible but sometimes people just do whatever the freaking want and controlling a completely undiciplined squad is a pain in the ass.Keeping the Squad together is hardest part. Per say , I tell my squad to move to this compound, i have to be constantly checking the map so they don´t go everywhere so we stay as a unit so then we can use also do some fire and manuever with fireteams. Sometimes there´s this sapper guy or marksman who rushes to the objective or goes 300m away to flank all by himself and this other dude who follows him and dies.It´s just not fun to always be playing like this because i have to deal with the macro level coordination with the other SLs and it´s frustrating sometimes. Thank god there are some people that aren´t this stupid but i guess people don´t have a sense of dicipline,idk if they are complete casuals, or they just say f*ck the orders. Also players don´t hold their spawn and wait for medics so usually i am with 5 guys and the others respawning back at the fob 1 km away when i didn´t even told them to spawn. Well, idk but probably that´s because I am PR vet and I am used to holding spawn whenever the squad gets wiped and wait for SL to order where to spawn. I am constantly trying to regroup because u know, one by one is easy to kill when u are a whole group. This leads to just waves of soldiers pushing  from different angles and hoping their skills are enough to defeat the position. But that´s not what SQUAD  is mainly about.I´d like to see more patience, good habits, waiting for orders,  not chasing guys who are lonewolves who are 100 m away by yourself or rushing objectives without the order of doing so(PERSONAL WORST IN ALL OF THE ONES MENTIONED ABOVE ) because it ends in the Squad getting picked apart in since i didn´t even set up the the base of fire so they flank or push safely. Now, all of this lack of coordination doesn´t happen 100% but a solid 50-60% and when it happens it´s frustrating even for the most experienced SLs. Comment to see how to improve this or make mechanics that force u stick with your squad more.

 

My suggestion:  make the RP so that as soon as i put it, they have at least 10 secs to respawn inmediateley and passed those 10 secs the wave system starts to work normally. The point is that we regroup the Squad quickly and they don´t have to wait 1 min just like in PR, it worked well back then.

Edited by maze2

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3 hours ago, maze2 said:

Also players don´t hold their spawn and wait for medics so usually i am with 5 guys and the others respawning back at the fob 1 km away when i didn´t even told them to spawn. Well, idk but probably that´s because I am PR vet and I am used to holding spawn whenever the squad gets wiped and wait for SL to order where to spawn. I am constantly trying to regroup because u know, one by one is easy to kill when u are a whole group. This leads to just waves of soldiers pushing  from different angles and hoping their skills are enough to defeat the position. But that´s not what SQUAD  is mainly about.I´d like to see more patience, good habits, waiting for orders,  not chasing guys who are lonewolves who are 100 m away by yourself or rushing objectives without the order of doing so

I´m sad to say this. But vanilla Squad has changed the original goal. It can no longer be compared to PR no more than the similarity in the maps and some game modes and some mechanics.

 

The gameplay you can expect from vanilla Squad is similar to what you would expect from BF2. 

 

At most, devs will provide the tools for modders to design whatever kind of gameplay they want to see. They can use Squad as a big sandbox and basic coding for people to come up with their own mods.

 

That being said, support ATHENA mod. PR inspired mod. Maybe this one wont make it. But the population of not-yet-satisfied people with Squad´s gameplay is growing.

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Think you should look for clan matches which will give you more organised play.
 

General Pub play has a different vibe, at the best your be able to to kettle the cats :) .  Personally I try and see how each squad reacts, start with simple things like can they all use mics, can they all get into the same truck, can they find a move point. Then move it forward each time or more experienced players only a few time have I had bounding over squads or patrols.   

At the end of the day, if you all have a good experience then it makes the game, dictation isn't the point of the game its building teamwork with a squad is.

 

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3 hours ago, maze2 said:

Whenever I SL I love to be as friendly as possible but sometimes people just do whatever the freaking want and controlling a completely undiciplined squad is a pain in the ass.Keeping the Squad together is hardest part. Per say , I tell my squad to move to this compound, i have to be constantly checking the map so they don´t go everywhere so we stay as a unit so then we can use also do some fire and manuever with fireteams. Sometimes there´s this sapper guy or marksman who rushes to the objective or goes 300m away to flank all by himself and this other dude who follows him and dies.It´s just not fun to always be playing like this because i have to deal with the macro level coordination with the other SLs and it´s frustrating sometimes.

That's my main reason why I rarely play as an SL and if I do I lock my squad invite 6-8 good known people and open the squad for 1-2 randoms.

Because I need players that can trust, to follow orders,  common knowledge, average skill and have a teamwork-oriented mindset.

3 hours ago, maze2 said:

 I am constantly trying to regroup because u know, one by one is easy to kill when u are a whole group. This leads to just waves of soldiers pushing  from different angles and hoping their skills are enough to defeat the position. But that´s not what SQUAD  is mainly about.I´d like to see more patience, good habits, waiting for orders,  not chasing guys who are lonewolves who are 100 m away by yourself or rushing objectives without the order of doing so(PERSONAL WORST IN ALL OF THE ONES MENTIONED ABOVE ) because it ends in the Squad getting picked apart in since i didn´t even set up the the base of fire so they flank or push safely.

Actually, it's exactly what is Squad all about nowadays and i have some fear about that this will never change for vanilla. It's all about Action with nearly no downtime between and the rush meta works too very well and rewards stupid and sometimes even suicide playstyles.

 

3 hours ago, maze2 said:

Now, all of this lack of coordination doesn´t happen 100% but a solid 50-60% and when it happens it´s frustrating even for the most experienced SLs. Comment to see how to improve this or make mechanics that force u stick with your squad more.

Coordination is on the second place, it's way more important to have esl cs:go twitch reflexes and be consistent in winning 1v1.

Sticking with your Squad is a nice backup and grants you access to be revived or get some ammo. When you play in a Squad where most players don't have twitch reflex in CQB just don't trust them and don't be in their proximity to increase your survivability.

 

Sad but true.

3 hours ago, maze2 said:

My suggestion:  make the RP so that as soon as i put it, they have at least 10 secs to respawn inmediateley and passed those 10 secs the wave system starts to work normally. The point is that we regroup the Squad quickly and they don´t have to wait 1 min just like in PR, it worked well back then.

I had the same thought but to be honest thanks to the buddy rally and the permanent rally even in the middle of nowhere (without any fobs ally's or vic's around) that would only change an even more fast-paced playstyle and getting overrun out of nowhere gets more common with such change.

Semi-off topic: My biggest fear is that choppers will speed things up, even more for the playstyle and are >80% used as an rush tool.

 

TL:TR Give SL's some time to breath, regroup, plan alternate tactics midgame and decelerate the overall game flow, please.

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8 minutes ago, Smee said:

Think you should look for clan matches which will give you more organised play.
 

General Pub play has a different vibe, at the best your be able to to kettle the cats :) .  Personally I try and see how each squad reacts, start with simple things like can they all use mics, can they all get into the same truck, can they find a move point. Then move it forward each time or more experienced players only a few time have I had bounding over squads or patrols.   

At the end of the day, if you all have a good experience then it makes the game, dictation isn't the point of the game its building teamwork with a squad is.

 

To be honest Clan matches are even worse than Pub play, sure the comms are on point and you can trust anyone on the field that they know their job but that's it. From there the problems start to rise because teamwork isn't #1 you need to win games.

Let me quote myself.

"Coordination is on the second place, it's way more important to have esl cs:go twitch reflexes and be consistent in winning 1v1."

   (Teamwork)                                                                                                   (aim /shot /hit better than your opponent has more impact)

 

Same for FOB's, they are on the #2 place because the #1 rally with his brother buddy rally is way more important to win games especially clan games.

It's easier to set up, hide, operate and change position compared to a fob. The only benefit that you miss is ammo, wow.

 

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I can feel your pain in regards to dealing with random squad mates that disregard your directions. For the vast majority of these cases, the problem is that these players have little to no experience playing the game. As more new players join, more old players leave, unwilling to deal with unorganized squads. The problem seems like it will only get worse. This is where people like us who know how the game is played need to step in. Here are some tips that I've found to help out.

 

Make sure everyone in your squad has a mic and uses it. Put MIC or something like it in the squad name.

 

Don't allow combat engineers or marksmen in the squad unless you know the person will work with the squad. Leave these kits for people you know or play often with.

 

Ask at the begining of the round who the new players are. Tell them to stay away from the specialized classes. Make them use the medic to promote team play.

 

Keep all tactical directions very very simple. I don't usually split the squad into multiple elements unless I can tell they are top notch players. Most people don't understand even the basics like bounding or even something as fundamental as suppressing. Anything that isn't a self evident as "smoke and push" must be explained quickly.

 

When giving orders to regroup, if no one decided to regroup make sure to call them out by name (this goes for any other direction as well). If no response then boot them from the squad. They will hopefully learn to stick together.

 

And finally, if you find yourself getting lots of squads where no communication happens. Try to find a couple of buddies to play with. In a squad of 9 randoms, if you see two to three other people than the sl talking then you might be encouraged to do so as well. Lead by example and others will (hopefully) follow.

 

Overall try to teach others by example. Encourage them to ask questions. Alot of the newbies are overwhelmed when they start because they have only played battlefield or something like it. If you start to get frustrated with people not following your directions, explain them. For example if they don't disengage after multiple attempts at calling for a fall back, explain that your squad is a (roughly) a quarter of the teams manpower that does nothing on a inactive objective.They are more likely to do something if they know the why rather than some dude telling them what to do. Direct orders are for people who have a clue.

 

Hope this helps someone. Being SL is hard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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