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Squad and PR (Project Reality)

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38 minutes ago, danielritual said:

I hate squad and i I am very excited for the release of mod athena. It will bring everything the squad doesn't have!

WHAT? HATE SQUAD? That's blasphemy you're talking. Are you guys seriously just going to roll over and pee on yourself and make some half baked mod that only gets you remotely close to the PR2 clone you keep telling us you were promised? That's pretty anticlimactic considering what a fuss you've been making.

 

If anything you should be getting your PR clone game and the casuals and competitive guys should have to mod the game instead of you right? Hold steadfast!

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9 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Are you guys seriously just going to roll over and pee on yourself and make some half baked mod that only gets you remotely close to the PR2 clone you keep telling us you were promised? 

Well...Yes.

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17 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

You don't have to resort to deflection as an excuse for not wanting to play PR which is a fully functional game. If you click the Dev Blog you'll see their team is currently working on several things for a new update plus if you look at their PRSPY page and click "show empty servers" you'll see there are plenty of empty servers all over the world. It says 39 servers currently. Stop making excuses and play the game you want Squad to be.

 

https://www.realitymod.com/prspy/

 

 

 

 

No, lately the population for the westerners can’t even fill one server sometimes and that’s a problem considering that game is made for 100 players.

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55 minutes ago, maze2 said:

No, lately the population for the westerners can’t even fill one server sometimes and that’s a problem considering that game is made for 100 players.

That's not the point. He said there wasn't enough servers to play on however if you're inside the game browser or you click "show empty servers" you'll plenty of empty servers worldwide. For me in North America I played on =HOG= but there were also two empty American server as well. The potential to play Project Reality PvP is readily available to anyone in the world with 39 empty servers.

 

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Basically we do not get what was promised during the kickstarter. Project Reality 2 was the game we wanted but never got (graphical overhaul, more features for gameplay, proper UI). Instead we might get a Battlefield like casual shooter turning it backs towards the tactical shooter genre.

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Posted (edited)
On 10/7/2019 at 8:07 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

Honestly all these excuses listed thus far sound like things that could be easily mitigated with funding and enthusiastic people neither of which seem to be in abundance. Why is that?

We were very enthusiastic and we did fund the game. That game is called Squad. With every new iterations after V11, it gets us more and more aggravated. We feel tricked and betrayed. Future is not very bright since, as player base is getting bigger, PR fans are getting to be minority. And there is no one that is representing our voice.

 

OWI Squad Championship? Sorry to say, but its a joke. There is a clean lean to arcade side of stuff... Take a look how PR Tournament was made. It's same competitive scene, but with structural organisation, "divisions", planning, training... more meaningful and rewarding gameplay. Wining or loosing a fight had influence on struggle between two factions. Point is: gameplay was richer, deeper and way more funnier. OISC? Dumb down to cater masses. You feel okay with this? Fine, maybe you don't know for any better... but some of us played PR and we are pissed off cause we believe this game could be pure gem... as PR was once. And future for PR is not going to get any better. Making of Squad made a discontinuation with PR development, in some way. Some of developers of PR became developers of Squad. Community split. But above all... Project Reality is simply a modification built upon game from 2005. PR devs made miracles with that (not free source!) engine... but there is only so much that you can do out of ~15 year old engine.

 

People that helped OWI to start business is now getting marginalized... and getting ridiculed by persons like you.

 

Which brings me to next thought... why do you pop up in these conversations and put people down? You bring nothing to conversion nor show any interest about issues we are talking here. Do you feel better as person by doing these things? Seriously, what's in it for you?

 

@fuzzhead , please bring this game back on the track! Be our voice!!! :) 

Edited by Disco

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6 hours ago, blacktea65 said:

Basically we do not get what was promised during the kickstarter. Project Reality 2 was the game we wanted but never got (graphical overhaul, more features for gameplay, proper UI). Instead we might get a Battlefield like casual shooter turning it backs towards the tactical shooter genre.

OWI used the PR fanbase to get the kickstarter going, now they dont need us anymore, so they turned their game into BF style to make more money, sad but true

 

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8 hours ago, Disco said:

We were very enthusiastic and we did fund the game. That game is called Squad. With every new iterations after V11, it gets us more and more aggravated. We feel tricked and betrayed. Future is not very bright since, as player base is getting bigger, PR fans are getting to be minority. And there is no one that is representing our voice.

 

People that helped OWI to start business is now getting marginalized... and getting ridiculed by persons like you.

 

@fuzzhead , please bring this game back on the track! Be our voice!!! :) 

+1

 

7 hours ago, EA_SUCKS said:

OWI used the PR fanbase to get the kickstarter going, now they dont need us anymore, so they turned their game into BF style to make more money, sad but true

+1

 

We are not asking for much. Basically there are 3 alternatives:

 

A. Support the creation of a mod that fulfills the expectations of this segregated part of the community.

 

B. Include 2 different game modes. Just for the argument let´s call them "STANDARD" and "SIMULATION" (I think those names dont offend anybody).

 

C. Include SERVER OPTIONS. Each server could choose to turn ON/OFF different mechanics like buddy rally, or even INCREASE/DECREASE timer for respawn. Or even choose the rallly mode TEMPORARY/PERMANENT/Nº of SPAWNS.

 

 

I think option C is the easiest one. No need to scare away more arcade player base, and you can keep making money through sales. What´s more, you will take steps into having a mor loyal player base that will stick around and populate your servers for many years. The proof for that is how loyal (and addicted) the PR community was. 

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8 hours ago, Disco said:

We were very enthusiastic and we did fund the game. That game is called Squad. With every new iterations after V11, it gets us more and more aggravated. We feel tricked and betrayed. Future is not very bright since, as player base is getting bigger, PR fans are getting to be minority. And there is no one that is representing our voice.

 

OWI Squad Championship? Sorry to say, but its a joke. There is a clean lean to arcade side of stuff... Take a look how PR Tournament was made. It's same competitive scene, but with structural organisation, "divisions", planning, training... more meaningful and rewarding gameplay. Wining or loosing a fight had influence on struggle between two factions. Point is: gameplay was richer, deeper and way more funnier. OISC? Dumb down to cater masses. You feel okay with this? Fine, maybe you don't know for any better... but some of us played PR and we are pissed off cause we believe this game could be pure gem... as PR was once. And future for PR is not going to get any better. Making of Squad made a discontinuation with PR development, in some way. Some of developers of PR became developers of Squad. Community split. But above all... Project Reality is simply a modification built upon game from 2005. PR devs made miracles with that (not free source!) engine... but there is only so much that you can do out of ~15 year old engine.

 

People that helped OWI to start business is now getting marginalized... and getting ridiculed by persons like you.

 

Which brings me to next thought... why do you pop up in these conversations and put people down? You bring nothing to conversion nor show any interest about issues we are talking here. Do you feel better as person by doing these things? Seriously, what's in it for you?

 

@fuzzhead , please bring this game back on the track! Be our voice!!! :) 

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I couldn't describe the situation any better, you just nailed it.

 

Huge +1 from my side.

 

@fuzzhead, We need you :3

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6 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

+1

 

+1

 

We are not asking for much. Basically there are 3 alternatives:

 

A. Support the creation of a mod that fulfills the expectations of this segregated part of the community.

 

B. Include 2 different game modes. Just for the argument let´s call them "STANDARD" and "SIMULATION" (I think those names dont offend anybody).

 

C. Include SERVER OPTIONS. Each server could choose to turn ON/OFF different mechanics like buddy rally, or even INCREASE/DECREASE timer for respawn. Or even choose the rallly mode TEMPORARY/PERMANENT/Nº of SPAWNS.

 

 

I think option C is the easiest one. No need to scare away more arcade player base, and you can keep making money through sales. What´s more, you will take steps into having a mor loyal player base that will stick around and populate your servers for many years. The proof for that is how loyal (and addicted) the PR community was. 

A. You can start and make progress on this already. 

 

B and C. Either should be doable eventually but I doubt we'll be seeing those until after 1.0.

 

Constantly demanding those before the game is even fully finished is a little silly.

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I hear you guys, and will do my best to ensure that Squad has a place where former PR players (including myself) are not in a melancholy state about "what could have been", but rather have a defined and proud place within the community where they feel the best aspects of gameplay, attitude and culture of PR lives on, and even thrives!

 

We also have to take care that Squad has a diverse community that does not all share the same ethos or outlook on what are the important aspects. This diverse community is what enabled Squad to continue to grow it's player bases. However I do strongly believe it's the good natured, communication and comraderie of the overall playerbase that keeps players coming back again and again - this is something that should be treasured and honored and allowed to continue to flourish, not snuffed out.

 

As we finalize the last major features (Helicopters, Commander, etc), there will be opportunity to hear your thoughts and move to a solution for this issue.

 

I am here with you guys, the pacing and teamwork aspects of Squad for players like me, well they are still "not quite there", to put it kindly. It's also not that far off, some simple and effective changes/tweaks/feature tweaks&removals can be done to dial in that experience. 

 

I do think these are all worthwhile options to investigate:

- highlighting and helping a featured mod that has a great design and attitude that brings the pacing and teamwork aspects more in line with PR like gameplay

- allowing server options for a "standard" ruleset and a "simulation" ruleset, which are clearly shown to the player in the server browser

- allowing server options for enabling or disabling certain features which are clearly shown to player in server browser

 

I know it may be too much to ask for many of you, as I know many of you are feeling disgruntled, left behind and your voices silenced. I can ensure you guys, your voices are not falling in deaf ears. Continue making your voices heard in a respectful, intelligent way.

 

I ask for your patience as I will be pushing hard in the coming months to ensure that the Squad community will have a place within it that embodies the ethos, comraderie and good natured teamwork culture that we all helped grow and flourish n PR and then carried the torch to Squad. It's that culture that truly makes Squad a unique community and that needs to be respected and allowed to grow.

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4 hours ago, fuzzhead said:

I do think these are all worthwhile options to investigate:

- highlighting and helping a featured mod that has a great design and attitude that brings the pacing and teamwork aspects more in line with PR like gameplay

- allowing server options for a "standard" ruleset and a "simulation" ruleset, which are clearly shown to the player in the server browser

- allowing server options for enabling or disabling certain features which are clearly shown to player in server browser

 

I ask for your patience as I will be pushing hard in the coming months to ensure that the Squad community will have a place within it that embodies the ethos, comraderie and good natured teamwork culture that we all helped grow and flourish n PR and then carried the torch to Squad. It's that culture that truly makes Squad a unique community and that needs to be respected and allowed to grow.

And patience you shall get...

 

Thank you for making us feel heard and taken into account. 

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How is exactly is Squad Battlefield style? I thought it was more tactical than most mainstream games. I never played PR. What did it have that squad is missing?

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1 hour ago, budder8818 said:

How is exactly is Squad Battlefield style? I thought it was more tactical than most mainstream games. I never played PR. What did it have that squad is missing?

Many things:

 

- run and gun isnt as effective, due to supression and bullet deviation (a way devs did to emulate weapon sway due to BF2 engine limitations). Game rewarded good positioning over good reflection.

- camaraderie and teamwork above competitive drive (people played to win, but felt rewarded even when match was lost, as long as it was balanced)

- teamwork, teamwork, teamwork. And did I mention teamwork? Being good at shooting was a nice thing (its a FPS game afterall), but being smart and using a more tactical style of gameplay as a team, was even better. Game mechanisms pushed strongly towards that.

- punishing lonewolfing and reckless play. Everytime you die your respawn timer increases, so giving up is actively punished.

 

These are the most obvious ones that come to my mind.

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7 hours ago, budder8818 said:

How is exactly is Squad Battlefield style? I thought it was more tactical than most mainstream games. I never played PR. What did it have that squad is missing?

It had punishing mechanics that would recreate an environment in which "go to the cap and die" wasn´t a viable tactic (nor fun). 

 

It didn´t incentivize phrases like "we need more bodies in the cap".

 

It actually had retreat manouvers if combat was not going your way because it was much more important to stay alive and keep fighting than to just "die and respawn at buddy rally"

 

NO NAME TAGS!!!!! Only at a very close distance and after aiming at somebody for a few seconds. So IFF was a BIG THING. Combat awareness was rewarded because of that.

 

Therefore… LONEWOLFING was not a viable tactic. If u weren´t moving with a SQUAD then suddenly everything around u became suspicious. And you had relally no chances of achieving anything before you died. And after you died, nobody could bring u back up. And after waiting 2 minutes you had to spawn back, maybe again alone in the middle of nowhere with no transport.

 

Rallies were temporary, only for very specific reasons. So FOB and logistics had a much more important role. Improving teamwork.

 

In short...

 

CONDITIONS in the game were HARD. Hard conditions require HARD GAMEPLAY. 

 

In Squad conditions are quite forgiving and easy. EASY CONDITIONS require only EASY GAMEPLAY.

 

Like fuzz said: Squad is not there yet (in terms of gameplay) but it is´t too far off either...

 

Basically if they just removed (or drastically changed) buddy rally, incresed respawn timers, and brought back TEMPORARY rallies. Then you will basically have PR (with a younger community).

Edited by Nightingale87

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19 hours ago, fuzzhead said:

I know it may be too much to ask for many of you, as I know many of you are feeling disgruntled, left behind and your voices silenced. I can ensure you guys, your voices are not falling in deaf ears. Continue making your voices heard in a respectful, intelligent way.

 

I ask for your patience as I will be pushing hard in the coming months to ensure that the Squad community will have a place within it that embodies the ethos, comraderie and good natured teamwork culture that we all helped grow and flourish n PR and then carried the torch to Squad. It's that culture that truly makes Squad a unique community and that needs to be respected and allowed to grow.

Sure thing and thank you. Being patience isn’t that hard if we go step by step towards the ethos, camaraderie and good natured teamwork culture style of gameplay.

9 hours ago, Zenrique said:

Many things:

 

- run and gun isnt as effective, due to supression and bullet deviation (a way devs did to emulate weapon sway due to BF2 engine limitations). Game rewarded good positioning over good reflection.

- camaraderie and teamwork above competitive drive (people played to win, but felt rewarded even when match was lost, as long as it was balanced)

- teamwork, teamwork, teamwork. And did I mention teamwork? Being good at shooting was a nice thing (its a FPS game afterall), but being smart and using a more tactical style of gameplay as a team, was even better. Game mechanisms pushed strongly towards that.

- punishing lonewolfing and reckless play. Everytime you die your respawn timer increases, so giving up is actively punished.

 

These are the most obvious ones that come to my mind.

Playing the game was a great portion about positioning, patience, timing and working together.

Many of the differences made the game pace slower and gave you the opportunity to rethink, your

tactics mid game, regroup,  and execute the new plans even if they need 5-10min preperations.

I would like to add several things that gave the game so much depth and various play styles.

 

 

Rally:

• Depending on the location of your squad’s RP in relation to a team’s FOB will determine its

    longevity. (I’m unsure but I guess that worked as well with APC’s/IFV’s around)

 

• With missing commander, it’s obvious that the command rally point is missing as well.

 

 

Logis:

• had access to Close Support Bridges (CSB) to cross rivers if bridges were destroyed, mined or

   continuous ambushed.

 

• Repair Drop (I guess that one is obsolete now because every crewman has a repair toll plus the fob repair station should be enough)

 

 

FOB:

• Spawn overrun: It comes online 90 seconds after being build. It becomes unspawnable for 30

                                seconds if 1 enemy is within 10m, 2 enemies within 50m, 4 enemies within 100m

                                or 8 enemies within 150m.  (Just rushing to the objective and build the FOB while

                                the opponent is right next to you didn’t work that well and punished said team.

                                (First securing and then afterwards start building)

                                 (... btw that prevented spawnkilling as well)

 

• Supplies: The supplies of a FOB were visible and can be destroyed by all kind of explosive.

                    Hiding the supplies was important if you wanted a concealed FOB and granted your

                    supplies some sort of cover that they didn’t get blown away immediately.

 

• Mortars: Access to an useful and accurate in-game calculator and being able to fire additional

                   air-burst rounds (Explodes above the ground which is extremely deadly to infantry but

                   harmless to Vehicles)

                   Trademarks: • Single shot ~ 5sec reload

                                           • Slow adjustment of direction and angle

                                           • Med-High Scatter

                                           • Very Devastating (spreading fear)

                                           • Max range 1500m

                                              

Equipment:

• Shotgun’s: Besides deadly in CQB they granted you access to open locked doors and gates.

 

• Grapple hook: A simple but powerful that allowed you to overcome steep hills and tall buildings.

                             (Again positioning was greater reflex skills and that made the tool so great)

 

• Large C4 - The Large C4 is just a bit over twice as powerful as the Small C4 and only available to the Conventional Forces

                      Combat Engineer while the Small C4 is carried by both the Conventional Forces Combat Engineer and Breacher Roles.                 

• GTLD - This piece of equipment has better zoom then the regular binoculars, includes a range-

               finder and allows you to paint enemy targets which can be targeted by friendly (and

               enemy) air unit's bombs or missiles.

               (if your Tank is marked by an opponent GTLD your own SL’s around can set their GTLD

               near you to counter laser and hopefully, the guided bomb/missile will pick the wrong

               target instead of you)

 

 

Roles:

• Squad Lead: Conventional Forces SL’s has access to the GTLD

 

• Breacher:  The Swiss knife of the Squad. Limited to 1 per squad. He is a demolition specialist who

                        also acts as pointman in the breaching of buildings. His equipment includes an assault

                        rifle, a grappling hook to climb over obstacles, a shotgun and a few loads of C4 explosive

                        for tactic demolitions.

 

• Combat Engineer: Specialist in explosives and demolitions. Equipped with Anti-Vehicle Landmines,

                                   he is the designated person to establish mine fields or to defuse them.

        Currently only missing the Large C4 to deal with certain Vehicles / Emplacements

        and be the designate defuse role.

 

• Spotter/Sniper: These 2 man were the 4 extra eyes for the commander and with the grapple hook

                              of the Spotter, they got on any good overwatch position that gave them the needed

                              view for spotting opponent movement , marking opponent positions and vehicles

                              with their GTLD and on top granted them with a clear shot on

                              critical targets like crewman’s out of their vehicle and manned emplacements

                              like TOW/Kornet/Anti-Air as well as sneaking/ambushing HAT/LAT.

                              Granting their own team vehicles to operate further and being able to

                              support their Infantry.

 

 

Anti-Personnel Rifleman: The AP Rifleman comes with powerful anti-personnel mines equipped

                                            with remote detonators. He is most useful preparing ambushes or using

                                            his explosives to defend tactical objectives.

 

• Anti-Air Rifleman: He comes equipped with a handheld Anti-Air weapon system, making him the

                                  person to deter and take down enemy air elements. His restriction to 2 per

                                  team makes him a highly critical asset. Do not waste this kit!

 

 

Additional Game mechanics:

 

• Get in Vehicles: Vehicles can only be entered from the door/hatch.

 

• Thermal view: Allowing some Emplacements and Vehicles to being able to watch through smoke

and highlighting  infantry/vehicles (In Squad that would only work on a certain

limeted distance because the view range is much too high for such feature)

 

 

 

 

• IR-Smoke: To counter thermal view and  preventing being marked directly by GTLD’s 

 

• Laser guided bombs and missiles: Nearly every attack chopper and jet had access to them for quick

                                                                CAS runs if the target is already marked by the GTLD.

 

 

• Respawn: A player's respawn time is at least 45 seconds and at most 60 seconds plus temporary penalties. Time spent while

                     waiting for a medic is subtracted from that time. Once a player dies he has to wait at least 5 seconds before

                      spawning.

 

These actions influence the respawn time:

  1. Player death: +3s
  2. Capturing CP or destroying objective: -3s
  3. Doing a defensive action: -1s
  4. Squad built forward outpost: -10s

A temporary spawn time penalty which only affects the next time you die (building up to 5 minutes) is added by these actions:

  1. Teamkill: +15 seconds per teamkill
  2. Suicide: +15 seconds
  3. Civilian getting captured: +90 seconds
  4. Civilian killed violating ROE: +120 seconds per civilian
  5. Own weapons cache destroyed: +300 seconds

 

 

(Note: The playable civilian role will most likely not being added to Squad)

 

 (Note 2: Due to the long respawn and slower game pace revives were more common)

 

 

TL:TR Squad doesn’t need to copy PR 1:1 but should establish a certain depth to remain it’s tactical core and stands out for it’s unique gameplay style and be something special.

 

Source:

My memories: and the

PR Manual: https://www.realitymod.com/manual/en/

Edited by Phoenixstorm
spelling

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On 10/9/2019 at 11:43 PM, fuzzhead said:

I hear you guys, and will do my best to ensure that Squad has a place where former PR players (including myself)...

 

+1 on this

 

damn Im crying, so my prayer will come true? YES.

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While I agree that some of the elements of Squad has sort have gone backwards on some things, like removing the dead dead feature which is a mistake. I'm sorry you're not getting back up after getting a 30mm to the skull. I don't think it's fair to compare a game with 15 years of development to one with 5. PR has over 3 times the development time so yeah it's going to be a more complete game and have more maps etc. I'm sure the programming overhead for PR on that old engine is probably a lot less as the basic game mechanics and assets are already in game. This thing is still in active development, things will change. It's probably better to have polls which will help the developers tune the game to what the playerbase wants. Ie start a poll. "Who wants the return of the dead dead feature?" and 79% of people say yes, they will re-introduce it. Start polls, let the players vote. In fact their should be a whole " Feature Poll" section not just a suggestions section where people put their ideas and people vote on them.

Edited by tmpwhore

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I´m very critical with the current vanilla. NOT with all aspects of Squas since I still support this Project that´s Why i´m still around although I haven´t really played for 5 months. I´m right now looking forward to the next ONE LIFE event in SQUADOPS.

 

Now. The problem is I (like many) feel dissapointed. For some reasons.

 

5 hours ago, tmpwhore said:

 I don't think it's fair to compare a game with 15 years of development to one with 5. PR has over 3 times the development time so yeah it's going to be a more complete game and have more maps etc. I'm sure the programming overhead for PR on that old engine is probably a lot less as the basic game mechanics and assets are already in game. This thing is still in active development, things will change.

You will never read any criticism about graphics or sounds or even content. I´ve never written anything about this tank missing or this LAT not propperly implemented. For me those are minor things. All my complains are about gameplay. And I do think it´s fair to compare a game with 15 years and another one with 5... basically because the latter counts with all the experience the other one had. Furthermore, they share part of the development team. So in terms of gameplay that comparison is more than valid.

 

5 hours ago, tmpwhore said:

This thing is still in active development, things will change. It's probably better to have polls which will help the developers tune the game to what the playerbase wants. 

This is what scares me a lot.

 

Why? Before v13 everything was fine and I felt devs actually heard the community. After v13, it seems that the polls are interpreted in whatever way they see fit. 

 

Take buddy rally for example. 3 surveys and not once did it get a positive result. And it´s still there. They said they might do something about it after helis arrive. Well.... let´s wait and see. 

 

The problem is that The playerbase, if you expect it to grow and make money, will always want a game that is like COD/BF. The proff of that is the number of players in COD/BF gams. 

5 hours ago, tmpwhore said:

 "Who wants the return of the dead dead feature?" and 79% of people say yes, they will re-introduce it. 

Here´s a funny one. The player base is becoming one that doesn´t like punishing mechanics. One may ask then Why they want to be killed more quicly without chance of getting revived. Well, maybe because they don´t really care about dying, since there are spawn points all around and I cn be back to the middle of the action in 30 seconds. Not really that much. Much better to be running around than waiting for a revive.

 

This is actually a mechanic that doesn´t make the game more punishing on it´s own, rather less punishing if the player can be back in action in no time by just the huge availiability and proximity of spawn points.

 

 

Bottom line. I want the devs to make money. They have a decent product and they deserve it. But don´t forget the people that backed you from the beginning. Just support a more realistic mod, implement 2 different game modes, or include server settings for players to play the game the way they want. If they don´t do that, I will feel they´ve taken my money under false promises and didn´t deliver.

 

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If only @Fuzzhead was here since the beginning. You are our only PR Voice hope <3

 

That said, I personally feel Squad is getting closer to PR. The thing what made PR great mostly was the community and the dedicated people that played PR for so long. Squad will get there and is getting there eventually I truly believe. You will find the PR feel in servers like TG still.. Really

 

When PR became freeware it attracted so much casual audience which also made the game for its vets so much less fun. This is basically what Squad is going through constantly, probably until some time after release. We're getting a huge influx daily of casuals and or people trying it out and or not knowing much about it or its history. Simply said, if you get a server full of vets, you get PR.

 

I'm only begging for more map/flag variety and longer rounds. For me, it's mostly the smaller and old maps that just make Squad super duper arcadie. (Sumari, Chora, Logar) Just remove these maps please, for the love of PR. Skirmish versions of bigger maps only, for seeding or focused infantry servers. But there should be a minimal map size with minimum amount of flag varieties. Maps and the flow of it, is what made PR truly PR. The NEED for communication and teamwork on maps.

 

I'd also like to say that maybe a possible idea (Solution?) is to get in touch with PR vets (Kickstart supporters), see what exactly they want. And create some sort of Hardcore mode as a server setting. Seriously tho, maybe it's an idea?

Edited by MikeDude

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Not only is Squad basically in a different genre then PR, OWI has been using the QA team to twist the knife in PR vets for years now. At first I didn't think it was intentional/a conspiracy but after reading some very good insights on the subject I now believe that it is.

 

Even if a great PR mod comes out I might still leave Squad uninstalled out of spite. The devs loathe this subset of the community and have made it abundantly clear that they want us gone. It makes me wonder why we should stick around, even with modding. If only there were another game we could attach to.

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1 hour ago, wavefunction said:

Not only is Squad basically in a different genre then PR, OWI has been using the QA team to twist the knife in PR vets for years now. At first I didn't think it was intentional/a conspiracy but after reading some very good insights on the subject I now believe that it is.

 

Even if a great PR mod comes out I might still leave Squad uninstalled out of spite. The devs loathe this subset of the community and have made it abundantly clear that they want us gone. It makes me wonder why we should stick around, even with modding. If only there were another game we could attach to.

I'm no OWI sycophant for sure but in my opinion you're delusional. First off I've played both PR and Squad and aside a few subtle differences its basically the same game. Again, as I've reiterated many times I've scrutinized the Kickstarter page carefully and they never promised you a PR clone.

 

Nevertheless, regarding your "twist the knife", "intentional/ a conspiracy" etc. why don't you please cite your sources of these "insights" you've been reading? I think everyone would like to see that instead of some vague baseless assertions.

 

In either case I've got no dog in the fight for either Squad or PR but certainly truth, integrity and honesty should be of the utmost importance.

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I'm no OWI sycophant for sure but in my opinion you're delusional. First off I've played both PR and Squad and aside a few subtle differences its basically the same game. Again, as I've reiterated many times I've scrutinized the Kickstarter page carefully and they never promised you a PR clone.

 

Nevertheless, regarding your "twist the knife", "intentional/ a conspiracy" etc. why don't you please cite your sources of these "insights" you've been reading? I think everyone would like to see that instead of some vague baseless assertions.

 

In either case I've got no dog in the fight for either Squad or PR but certainly truth, integrity and honesty should be of the utmost importance.

People say that PR is a lot more like Squad now but during its heyday, the gap was pretty large. I mostly played it well before v1.0, I heard it became a bit of a shitshow when it stopped requiring BF2. By that time I shifted to playing Arma 3 more. 

 

If you played PR around 2010 which is when it was at its best, at least for me, I don't see how you could compare it to Squad now. It's completely different. The only similarities are superficial. The pacing and the way firefights played out made it a different game.

 

As for my sources, I came across this thread yesterday after someone sent it to me and I mostly agree with it. I don't think it's as intentional as the OP here makes it out to be but I think that the devs allowed QA to behave in this way because it worked for them. The proof is in the pudding (vanilla Squad): 

 

reddit.com/r/joinsquad/comments/d8vnhx/why_i_will_never_purchase_an_owi_game_again_long/

 

Edited by wavefunction

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2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I'm no OWI sycophant for sure but in my opinion you're delusional. First off I've played both PR and Squad and aside a few subtle differences its basically the same game. Again, as I've reiterated many times I've scrutinized the Kickstarter page carefully and they never promised you a PR clone.

Well... You know I respect you for trying to play PR. But how long did you play for? hours? 

 

And on the other hand. Semantics. "A spiritual successor" in my understanding of English is a bit more than copying some maps and game modes.

 

The SPIRIT of PR was unique. Teamwork was more important than reflexes. Immersion was more important than action. That is the spirit of PR. Further and further every time in VANILLA squad.

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