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Gadaffi

Squad and PR (Project Reality)

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Hello all

 

I would like to hear your feeling or opinion about how to compare Squad to Project Reality.  For older guys like me who we are playing PR for more than 10 years,

Squad is something like the successor of this game. However it would be nice to hear how you compare these two games in terms of feeling and gameplay.  I like squad but to be honest it still have not achieved the feeling and the atmosphere of PR. Maybe because it is a bit more arcade or because it is only in Alpha stage while PR is a complete and more mature game since it is out many years.  What do you think ?

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1 hour ago, Gadaffi said:

Hello all

 

I would like to hear your feeling or opinion about how to compare Squad to Project Reality.  For older guys like me who we are playing PR for more than 10 years,

Squad is something like the successor of this game. However it would be nice to hear how you compare these two games in terms of feeling and gameplay.  I like squad but to be honest it still have not achieved the feeling and the atmosphere of PR. Maybe because it is a bit more arcade or because it is only in Alpha stage while PR is a complete and more mature game since it is out many years.  What do you think ?

Squad is not PR´s successor….it was advertized like that but you have already realized it isn´t.

 

Squad is BF2 successor… its way more arcade and less punishing than PR. 

 

Support the modding community if you want to play something similar to PR. Right now there´s a mod called ATHENA. Look for it around the forums.

It´s not about being more mature. If the devs had wanted to use all of PR´s "wisdom" they would have. Instead they went for a more arcade approach to...well...you know...

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it is not because of the alpha

thats the road they are going to, and there is no turning back... they want a wider audience (more money ofc), and for us, that sucks

 

Squad is indeed the BF2 sucessor, I even made a thread about it, so if we want to make this game less stupid, we are going to have to mod it ourselves

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I agree with you guys. You are right :( . Unfortunately there is no PR successor. I hoped Squad would be but it isn't. I still strongly believe that if there was one it would be beneficial for all.  And for profit as well. PR (Project Reality) was born in 2005 !!! before 15 years. And still have players and a loyal community. There is no other game in this sector of tactical realistic shooter that have succeed such a strength durability over the time. 

 

Unfortunately,   after playing Squad hundreds of hours I realize that it becomes boring after some hour because of this chaotic mesh (arcade style game) of endless shooting. PR still gives a very different feeling of cooperation, strategy, tactical gaming. It is  much more mature as a tactical game and to be honest I like it more  :) .

 

I will have a look at ATHENA mod  Nightingale87 for sure.

Edited by Gadaffi

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PR was actually born in 2004 (before the release of BF2 in 2005), when footage/demo of BF2 was shown in that year :x

 

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For me there are three main reason.

 

 1.) PR supression was effective. In Squad it is not because in PR you cant see the enemy anymore but can guess your sourrounding well enought to get to cover. In Squad you can still see your enemy but get some extra sway. So you better shouldnt try it. But supression by reasoning is not working in a game. In reality if there is a 1% chance you may die everybody would get to cover, in a game if there is only a 1% chance you could survive everybody would take the risk. This doesnt stop anybody to at least try to get a lucky shot (on medium to short distances, so 90% of all firefights, its not even a lucky shot.)

 

2.) Spawntime is very short and there is always a FOB or Rally to spawn near action (because smaler overrun radius). Together with fast movement , running and sprinting most of the time its a good idea to instantly give up and respawn.

Losing a ticket isnt that bad, if you can revenge your death because the enemy is still there (and now you know here he is). Or if you manage to take out an enemy FOB, or to conquer an objektive... thats basicly 60 tickets... its worth to die ...a lot.

With spawnwaves on rallys everybody just gives up if somebody sceams "Rally in 10" because you dont want to miss the next wave. And sometimes if you are to slow, you miss it anyway and now you are 1 minute behind your Squad, because no one will ever wait.

 

3.) And lastly something i was originaly realy hoping for: proper balistic instead of PRs random deviation.

Since there are technical limitations like resolution and FOV  firefights usualy occour on a much smaler distance (in reality most of the times you can see further than you can reliably hit, in Squad as long as you can see it you can hit it). Now with a (semi)realistic Gun behavior it becomes way to deadly because hiting someone is not that difficult on this shorter distances. Realistic mechanics does not always mean realistic gameplay.

 

in conclusion playing as SL (imho) is no fun anymore.

To 1.) Tactics like supressing and flanking arent working (supressing element is long dead bevor Flanking is in position). Only tactic is Zergrush

to 2.) If you try to keep your squad together and one or two goes down and you manage to fight the enemy of he will be back bevor you can patch up your wounded and move on. So let them respawn and carry on to keep the momentum.

and to 3.)  If i see an enemy first i kill him on my own, no need for teamwork and support of my squad.

 

Nowadays a good SL is one who places the best glitched HAB and uses the Buddyrally intensive. Only order is "Run faster" and "Rush there".

 

 

 

 

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Too arcady to be PR's spiritual successor.

Developers got the money from PR kickstarter backers already so they're moving onto getting more cod/bf kids into squad.

Current v16 test has momentum added back in and it's slightly better, but the unrealistic ballistics and obvious lack of balance(anyone with a brain would agree that US/UK is in general better than Russians) hurts the game greatly.  The excuse to not fix it, at least when said by fanboys, is that it's not a priority.  Every day you learn something new about lack of balance - like SVD having 3.5x zoom instead of 4x, and US/UK medics/scope lats get grenades while Russian counterpart has no grenade because blufor just needs to be that much better.
The obvious blufor-bias is actually...surprisingly PR-like.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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5 hours ago, EcchiRevenge said:

but the unrealistic ballistics

what exactly did they do to the ballistics to make it unrealistic? I was under the impression that they were quite good (realistic) - certainly streets ahead of most other games (except ArmA, i guess) i've played.

 

11 hours ago, Titan84 said:

Now with a (semi)realistic Gun behavior it becomes way to deadly because hiting someone is not that difficult on this shorter distances.

And the problem with this is? ....

11 hours ago, Titan84 said:

Realistic mechanics does not always mean realistic gameplay.

?!

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Well I (mostly) agree with you Titan84.

 

I will continue to put effort into making Squad more enjoyable for players like you that feel things are not quite right.

 

I had put in some things to help with suppression, overall pace, and gunplay (A10-A11)

 

Alot of it was met with fierce opposition from the established playerbase that prefer fast paced games focusing more on player reflex and speed, rather than communication and real in depth tactics and strategy, which was the heart and soul of PR imo

 

Many things have improved along the way, but for myself - the faster pace game flow and over reliance on player reflex, still kills alot of the gameplay from being that enjoyable, especially long term. It does NOT encourage players to work together more with each other, but often times feels like it encourages players to become more secluded - not a good thing.

 

I'm glad more players speak up about it, there is many ways we can change this around, many things we can trial in tests. I encourage you all to stay hopeful and not hateful - at least for myself I have been fighting to bring the gameplay that we know is possible, the game has a super solid foundation and just needs tweaking to get into that glorious gameplay.

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On 28/9/2019 at 9:52 AM, Nightingale87 said:

Squad is not PR´s successor….it was advertized like that but you have already realized it isn´t.

 

Squad is BF2 successor… its way more arcade and less punishing than PR. 

 

Support the modding community if you want to play something similar to PR. Right now there´s a mod called ATHENA. Look for it around the forums.

It´s not about being more mature. If the devs had wanted to use all of PR´s "wisdom" they would have. Instead they went for a more arcade approach to...well...you know...

Totally agree.

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Posted (edited)
On 9/29/2019 at 6:09 PM, LaughingJack said:

what exactly did they do to the ballistics to make it unrealistic? I was under the impression that they were quite good (realistic) - certainly streets ahead of most other games (except ArmA, i guess) i've played.

 

 Higher gravity modifier(generally over twice the amount of gravity modifier compared to grenades), compensated by a bit of hitscan at the very close range.

So bullets drop way too much in closer ranges (between 100m and 400m, resulting in awkwardly unusable battle-zeroes, also why optics like 1p78 are zeroed at 100m rather than realistic 400m).
Try shooting AKM in Rising Storm 2 and compare that with Squad's and you will get what I mean.  I think both systems are off at different ranges and developers chose to focus on different engagement ranges(RS2 being more realistic in close range and Squad being somewhat more realistic at long range).
For example, zeroing AKM/SKS in Squad at 200m results in bullet impacting way higher than realistic(irl it should be no more than 10cm, which is less than the size of a head) and result in bullet flying clearly over enemy when aiming for head at around 100-150m.
Realism might ironically make the game play more arcady in this case, but it would help with balance(flatter trajectory lets ironsight, usually non-blufor, weapons work better out to longer distances while the likes of 1p78 finally gets proper chevrons for long range).

Basically, 7.62x39 AK/SKS should be mostly point-and-shoot(against stationary target) out to 200m at least when zeroed properly, but it's not.

Current implementation is no better than Insurgency Sandstorm.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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Posted (edited)

@fuzzhead One thing that would fix most issues is including different server settings. A "hardcore" gamemode to be more like PR would probably satisfy the people that are unhappy now, while keeping the more casual playerbase happy aswell.

Basically, server options would solve a lot of the issues.

Edited by Guan_Yu007

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3 minutes ago, Guan_Yu007 said:

@fuzzhead One thing that would fix most issues is including different server settings. A "hardcore" gamemode to be more like PR would probably satisfy the people that are unhappy now, while keeping the more casual playerbase happy aswell.

Well, maybe but i highly doubt that. The casual playerbase is strong even in Squad. Back in 2011 to BF3 release both casual and hardcore server had a decent playerbase but after ~1-2 years the hardcore playerbase was gone and never/rarely got a full server.  I hope I am wrong about that.

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On 29.9.2019 at 1:49 PM, Titan84 said:

 1.) PR supression was effective. In Squad it is not because in PR you cant see the enemy anymore but can guess your sourrounding well enought to get to cover. In Squad you can still see your enemy but get some extra sway. So you better shouldnt try it. But supression by reasoning is not working in a game. In reality if there is a 1% chance you may die everybody would get to cover, in a game if there is only a 1% chance you could survive everybody would take the risk. This doesnt stop anybody to at least try to get a lucky shot (on medium to short distances, so 90% of all firefights, its not even a lucky shot.)

That's so true and can be observed in every game. When someone got hit and didn't know where only a rough direction. Most players will poke the same corner again and risk to be killed just for a small hope to get revenge.

 

 

On 29.9.2019 at 1:49 PM, Titan84 said:

2.) Spawntime is very short and there is always a FOB or Rally to spawn near action (because smaler overrun radius). Together with fast movement , running and sprinting most of the time its a good idea to instantly give up and respawn.

Losing a ticket isnt that bad, if you can revenge your death because the enemy is still there (and now you know here he is). Or if you manage to take out an enemy FOB, or to conquer an objektive... thats basicly 60 tickets... its worth to die ...a lot.

With spawnwaves on rallys everybody just gives up if somebody sceams "Rally in 10" because you dont want to miss the next wave. And sometimes if you are to slow, you miss it anyway and now you are 1 minute behind your Squad, because no one will ever wait.

I notice the same behaviour, the rally (regroup tool) just separate the Squad because of the first 60 sec and are often used as a permanent spawn.

(i really miss the dynamic temporary/permanent [in exceptional circumstances] rally from PR)

The cherry on the cake is sometimes the rally respawn timer is even shorter than the FOB timer

and in best case only 15-20 sec after death + instant give up that's why some players just give up

even if you told them "Do not give up" they didn't respond at all and just give up cause of the short respawn timer.

 

 

On 29.9.2019 at 1:49 PM, Titan84 said:

3.) And lastly something i was originaly realy hoping for: proper balistic instead of PRs random deviation.

Since there are technical limitations like resolution and FOV  firefights usualy occour on a much smaler distance (in reality most of the times you can see further than you can reliably hit, in Squad as long as you can see it you can hit it). Now with a (semi)realistic Gun behavior it becomes way to deadly because hiting someone is not that difficult on this shorter distances. Realistic mechanics does not always mean realistic gameplay.

At the beginning of my PR days, I really hated the random deviation but in the end, I got used to it and learned that communication is > solo shooting/getting kills and working as a unit is more successful.

 

On 29.9.2019 at 1:49 PM, Titan84 said:

in conclusion playing as SL (imho) is no fun anymore.

To 1.) Tactics like supressing and flanking arent working (supressing element is long dead bevor Flanking is in position). Only tactic is Zergrush

to 2.) If you try to keep your squad together and one or two goes down and you manage to fight the enemy of he will be back bevor you can patch up your wounded and move on. So let them respawn and carry on to keep the momentum.

and to 3.)  If i see an enemy first i kill him on my own, no need for teamwork and support of my squad.

 

Nowadays a good SL is one who places the best glitched HAB and uses the Buddyrally intensive. Only order is "Run faster" and "Rush there".

Well the thing with flanking is you have no time in Squad, the avarage duration of a match is half or even a third of the avarage PR round duration.

that's why rush every singly objective is meta and every player have a high "action per minute" and for SL that's means no downtime at all for rething tactics, fireteams or comunicate with other SL's because most of them will ignore you if they are in combat which is the meta.

 

Most noticeable in tournament matches, the usual tactic is to have more skilled reflex players combined with buddyrally aka zerg rush.

9 Squads with each 2 man are more effective than 2 squads with 9 man just because of the buddy rally plus with that amount of buddy rally the FOB becomes Obsolete. tbh. that's just poor gameplay design.

 

4 hours ago, fuzzhead said:

Well I (mostly) agree with you Titan84.

 

I will continue to put effort into making Squad more enjoyable for players like you that feel things are not quite right.

 

I had put in some things to help with suppression, overall pace, and gunplay (A10-A11)

 

Alot of it was met with fierce opposition from the established playerbase that prefer fast paced games focusing more on player reflex and speed, rather than communication and real in depth tactics and strategy, which was the heart and soul of PR imo

 

Many things have improved along the way, but for myself - the faster pace game flow and over reliance on player reflex, still kills alot of the gameplay from being that enjoyable, especially long term. It does NOT encourage players to work together more with each other, but often times feels like it encourages players to become more secluded - not a good thing.

 

I'm glad more players speak up about it, there is many ways we can change this around, many things we can trial in tests. I encourage you all to stay hopeful and not hateful - at least for myself I have been fighting to bring the gameplay that we know is possible, the game has a super solid foundation and just needs tweaking to get into that glorious gameplay.

Nailed, consistent reflex are 50% of the game and more importend than proper tactics and communication which totally sucks tbh.

It's very hard to stay hopfull and not be hatefull if every patch something changed to be less teamwork-oriented and preferred a more rushing playstyle.

 

 

Well. Hope is the last to die, but it will die.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Phoenixstorm said:

.. the usual tactic is to have more skilled reflex players combined with buddyrally aka zerg rush.

9 Squads with each 2 man are more effective than 2 squads with 9 man just because of the buddy rally …

 

...consistent reflex are 50% of the game and more importend than proper tactics and communication which totally sucks tbh.

It's very hard to stay hopfull and not be hatefull if every patch something changed to be less teamwork-oriented and preferred a more rushing playstyle.

+1

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Posted (edited)
On 9/27/2019 at 11:42 PM, Gadaffi said:

Hello all

 

I would like to hear your feeling or opinion about how to compare Squad to Project Reality.  For older guys like me who we are playing PR for more than 10 years,

Squad is something like the successor of this game. However it would be nice to hear how you compare these two games in terms of feeling and gameplay.  I like squad but to be honest it still have not achieved the feeling and the atmosphere of PR. Maybe because it is a bit more arcade or because it is only in Alpha stage while PR is a complete and more mature game since it is out many years.  What do you think ?

My question is why does there actually need to be a replacement for Project Reality when its still a game that's not only regularly updated but is also completely free to play?

 

On Friday I downloaded and installed it for the first time ever and I found it to be a fully functional game with no errors or problems. Not only that, I was able to have all the video settings fully maxed out and the game looked decent and played with a stable frame rate. Furthermore in couple of the maps that crossed over to Squad such as Al Basrah and Fools Road I actually thought the assets from BF2 actually were more convincing and realistic, especially downtown Al Basrah.

 

So again, am I missing something here? What exactly is the downside to playing PR? Looking at the prspy there are plenty of servers worldwide ready for you to play on so in direct terms please explain why exactly is it that if you like PR so much why don't you actually just go play it?

 

Interestingly enough, if there is something you don't like about it then explain why it is you don't try to help out and mod the game some more?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Zylfrax791

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56 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

My question is why does there actually need to be a replacement for Project Reality when its still a game that's not only regularly updated but is also completely free to play?

 

On Friday I downloaded and installed it for the first time ever and I found it to be a fully functional game with no errors or problems. Not only that, I was able to have all the video settings fully maxed out and the game looked decent and played with a stable frame rate. Not only that in couple of the maps that crossed over to Squad such as Al Basrah and Fools Road I actually thought the assets from BF2 actually were more convincing and realistic, especially downtown Al Basrah.

 

So again, am I missing something here? What exactly is the downside to playing PR? Looking at the prspy there are plenty of servers worldwide ready for you to play on so in direct terms please explain why exactly is it that if you like PR so much why don't you actually just go play it?

 

Interestingly enough, if there is something you don't like about it then explain why it is you don't try to help out and mod the game some more?

 

 

 

 

The shooting mechanics are trash and that’s a fact.Other than that is pretty good.

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9 minutes ago, maze2 said:

The shooting mechanics are trash and that’s a fact.Other than that is pretty good.

Isn't that something that could be fixed though?

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52 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Isn't that something that could be fixed though?

No, you see, PR devs do not have access to the source code of the game, so they did what they could...besides, PR engine is 18 years old  I believe

 

despite this, I am almost reinstalling PR after 4 years... Squad is such a disappointment

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

My question is why does there actually need to be a replacement for Project Reality when its still a game that's not only regularly updated but is also completely free to play?

 

[...]

 

So again, am I missing something here? What exactly is the downside to playing PR? Looking at the prspy there are plenty of servers worldwide ready for you to play on so in direct terms please explain why exactly is it that if you like PR so much why don't you actually just go play it?

 

[...]

1.4 was released November 2016, 1.5 February 2018, the last patch (1.5.5.5) was released 14 months ago, August 2018.

 

At the moment there are 146 players online playing Project Reality, 98 of them are playing on PRTA which is full. If I wanted to play PR I'd have to either auto-deploy to PRTA or join SSG, currently hosting 23 players. Both of these servers are in Germany, so someone on the Pacific West or in Oceania wouldn't really have the ability to play without a ping of 200-300. HOG might get populated for the guy in the US, but the Australians don't have a local server anymore.

 

If you think PR is updated regularly you're dead wrong. If you think there are plenty of servers worldwide to choose from you're also dead wrong.

Project Reality is not regularly updated, which is one of the downsides of playing PR. The other is the lack of servers worldwide ready for you to play on.

Edited by saXoni

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1 minute ago, saXoni said:

1.4 was released November 2016, 1.5 February 2018, the last patch (1.5.5.5) was released 14 months ago, August 2018.

 

At the moment there are 146 players online playing Project Reality, 98 of them are playing on PRTA which is full. If I wanted to play PR I'd have to either auto-deploy to PRTA or join SSG, currently hosting 23 players. Both of these servers are in Germany, so someone on the Pacific West or in Oceania wouldn't really have the ability to play without a ping of 200-300. HOG might get populated for the guy in the US, but the Australians don't have a local server anymore.

 

If you think PR is updated regularly you're dead wrong. If you think there are plenty of servers worldwide to choose from you're also dead wrong.

Project Reality is not regularly updated, which is one of the downsides of playing PR. The others is the lack of servers worldwide ready for you to play on.

Honestly all these excuses listed thus far sound like things that could be easily mitigated with funding and enthusiastic people neither of which seem to be in abundance. Why is that?

 

I'm confused by the fact that if there's so much a huge demand by passionate PR players wouldn't they be able to organize into groups and fund their own servers?

 

Ironically enough, before people here took the opportunity to ridicule and belittle me as someone that "didn't understand" or "didn't get it" simply because I wasn't part if the "old boys network" and yet after playing the game for and entire weekend I see a fully functional game that looks and plays just fine but is abandoned by the very community that puts it on a pedestal.

 

I find that a bit odd and hypocritical.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Some of the other PR players in the thread might give you something on the funding/being enthusiastic part - I'm not here for that. If you thought so because of my last two sentences it was rather meant as a funny way to turn around your sentences to prove a point. I feel no need to fight for PR's surivial. You claim the game has plenty of servers and players, and that it is updated regularly. It is neither of the two. You can't base and continue your discussions on arguments that are false; find some new ones.

 

Stating facts is neither odd nor hypocritical.

 

EDIT: You know what, just look at this post as an automated one from a bot, simply showing up because it detected something wrong and wanted to correct it.

 


 

Edited by saXoni

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Honestly all these excuses listed thus far sound like things that could be easily mitigated with funding and enthusiastic people neither of which seem to be in abundance. Why is that?

 

I'm confused by the fact that if there's so much a huge demand by passionate PR players wouldn't they be able to organize into groups and fund their own servers?

 

Ironically enough, before people here took the opportunity to ridicule and belittle me as someone that "didn't understand" or "didn't get it" simply because I wasn't part if the "old boys network" and yet after playing the game for and entire weekend I see a fully functional game that looks and plays just fine but is abandoned by the very community that puts it on a pedestal.

 

I find that a bit odd and hypocritical.

 

 

The game is from 2005!!! Original modders who were 25 years old are now 40 (and making money with Squad...lol)

 

In my case (and many PR players I know) I moved to Squad because I saw it was slowly moving towards being PR successor. I bought the game. I invested time. I convinced many PR players to buy and join Squad. They did. There was a slow but gradual transition from PR over to Squad for many players.

 

Then. V13 came out. 

 

Some of the people I convinced to buy the game still tell me that I owe them some money (as a joke! but hey...they say it).

Only a few of all those people are still playing regularly but none of them is very happy about it. And now they don´t go back because it´s just easier to play Squad. Going back to those graphics is hard for many people.

2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I'm confused by the fact that if there's so much a huge demand by passionate PR players wouldn't they be able to organize into groups and fund their own servers?

Well. About that. We might rise from the ashes and créate a new mod for Squad.... ATHENA mod is brewing.

 

After all, general discontent (from former PR players) is VERY recent. 5 months or so. So, give it some time.

Edited by Nightingale87

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1 hour ago, saXoni said:

Some of the other PR players in the thread might give you something on the funding/being enthusiastic part - I'm not here for that. If you thought so because of my last two sentences it was rather meant as a funny way to turn around your sentences to prove a point. I feel no need to fight for PR's surivial. You claim the game has plenty of servers and players, and that it is updated regularly. It is neither of the two. You can't base and continue your discussions on arguments that are false; find some new ones.

 

Stating facts is neither odd nor hypocritical.

 

EDIT: You know what, just look at this post as an automated one from a bot, simply showing up because it detected something wrong and wanted to correct it.

 


 

You don't have to resort to deflection as an excuse for not wanting to play PR which is a fully functional game. If you click the Dev Blog you'll see their team is currently working on several things for a new update plus if you look at their PRSPY page and click "show empty servers" you'll see there are plenty of empty servers all over the world. It says 39 servers currently. Stop making excuses and play the game you want Squad to be.

 

https://www.realitymod.com/prspy/

 

 

 

 

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On 28/09/2019 at 4:52 AM, Nightingale87 said:

Squad is not PR´s successor….it was advertized like that but you have already realized it isn´t.

 

Squad is BF2 successor… its way more arcade and less punishing than PR. 

 

Support the modding community if you want to play something similar to PR. Right now there´s a mod called ATHENA. Look for it around the forums.

It´s not about being more mature. If the devs had wanted to use all of PR´s "wisdom" they would have. Instead they went for a more arcade approach to...well...you know...

I hate squad and i I am very excited for the release of mod athena. It will bring everything the squad doesn't have!

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