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A16 Helicopter First Impressions

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First impressions on helicopters.

Training mission only.

Piloting only.

 

Handling

  • Way too easy to accelerate from slow speeds
    • Accelerated -4 to 43 knots in two-three meters distance when I accidentally dropped the nose. That is too fast.
  • Inertia is off
    • It feels very arcade like and hollow. In low speeds it is too sensitive. Not the tail rotor how ever, it feels sluggish at all speeds.
    • These does not feel like heavy lifters, these big helicopters need to demand some respect from the user.
  • Yaw 
    • Yaw is sluggish and it is true at all speeds, not only high speeds where it should(!) be sluggish
  • Quick stops / Turns
    • Tried a quickstop maneuver that is easiest described as a sideways flare. Spent 2h on this maneuver alone. This  is conducted by turning either way aggressively having the fuselage tilted 90 degrees, applying rear rotor in the direction of the turn, pulling back hard on the stick and sliding along the flight path with the belly of the fuselage facing original direction of travel aligned with the horizon. 
    • Even though I have the full side tilt with the main rotor facing fully away from the direction of flight it does not produce the expected result. It went into a rather wide turn instead of slowing down at an accelerated pace.
    • I did however notice that if you let the rear rotor fall lower the nose and do not keep the airframe aligned with the horizon the the flare is more effective. The game seems to interpret that pitching up above the horizon as the main means of deaccelerating and not the lift from the main rotor. 
    • The airframe itself when sideways does not seem to generate lift, or have the inertia set up perfectly, so even if I hold the aggressive turn for too long it does not fall sideways towards the ground.
    • Spontaneously it feels that the game at the moment does not handle the lift from the rotors properly.

Failures

  • Autorotation
    • Would love if you added it
  • Tailrotor failure
    • Love the panicked spinning
    • It seems to maintain the spinning at the same altitude 
    • Needs to be correctable at perfect conditions with a good pilot
  • Crashes
    • Alarms - Great
    • Warning Lights - Great
    • Tumbeling, rolling and the dust that kicks up. Lovely.
    • Can already hear my panicked passengers on local speech crying out in despair and anger over my poor flight skills. Love it.

Controls

  • Could not invert the mouse for helicopter. This was a grand contributor to my crashes.
  • Did not try the joystick yet
  • Collective slider with keyboard is to inprecise. A single tap of the key and you go up 5%. 

Looks

  • Nice machines
  • Nice details

 

Final notes

You will always be compared with ARMA and I do think that you can match, or outperform, ARMA if given time. I am sorry that I as well make the comparison. 

 

ARMA helicopters pilots needs to put in allot of hours to excel under fire. And it rewards the player with the ability to fix situations and failures that newer pilots could not resolve. Other games choose to have a more arcade approach were failures are always fatal and not resolvable. I do believe that you have the intention to give us incentives and rewards for putting in the training hours.

 

If you haven't already tried please try to reach out to Dslyecxi at ShackTactical. He is a good instructor, judging from his video tutorials, and through these videos commands respect from the online flying community. His comments could prove to be of assistance to you in your endeavor.

 

I have been flying transport helicopter in every game that have allowed me to so I hope, and believe, you will do a great work with this aspect as you already have done with the others parts that are implemented into the game.

 

You have already created a great game!

Keep your spirits high and stay motivated!

 

//Primetarget83 [SMIL]

 

 

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23 hours ago, Primetarget said:

First impressions on helicopters.

Training mission only.

Piloting only.

 

Handling

  • Way too easy to accelerate from slow speeds
    • Accelerated -4 to 43 knots in two-three meters distance when I accidentally dropped the nose. That is too fast.
  • Inertia is off
    • It feels very arcade like and hollow. In low speeds it is too sensitive. Not the tail rotor how ever, it feels sluggish at all speeds.
    • These does not feel like heavy lifters, these big helicopters need to demand some respect from the user.
  • Yaw 
    • Yaw is sluggish and it is true at all speeds, not only high speeds where it should(!) be sluggish
  • Quick stops / Turns
    • Tried a quickstop maneuver that is easiest described as a sideways flare. Spent 2h on this maneuver alone. This  is conducted by turning either way aggressively having the fuselage tilted 90 degrees, applying rear rotor in the direction of the turn, pulling back hard on the stick and sliding along the flight path with the belly of the fuselage facing original direction of travel aligned with the horizon. 
    • Even though I have the full side tilt with the main rotor facing fully away from the direction of flight it does not produce the expected result. It went into a rather wide turn instead of slowing down at an accelerated pace.
    • I did however notice that if you let the rear rotor fall lower the nose and do not keep the airframe aligned with the horizon the the flare is more effective. The game seems to interpret that pitching up above the horizon as the main means of deaccelerating and not the lift from the main rotor. 
    • The airframe itself when sideways does not seem to generate lift, or have the inertia set up perfectly, so even if I hold the aggressive turn for too long it does not fall sideways towards the ground.
    • Spontaneously it feels that the game at the moment does not handle the lift from the rotors properly.

Failures

  • Autorotation
    • Would love if you added it
  • Tailrotor failure
    • Love the panicked spinning
    • It seems to maintain the spinning at the same altitude 
    • Needs to be correctable at perfect conditions with a good pilot
  • Crashes
    • Alarms - Great
    • Warning Lights - Great
    • Tumbeling, rolling and the dust that kicks up. Lovely.
    • Can already hear my panicked passengers on local speech crying out in despair and anger over my poor flight skills. Love it.

Controls

  • Could not invert the mouse for helicopter. This was a grand contributor to my crashes.
  • Did not try the joystick yet
  • Collective slider with keyboard is to inprecise. A single tap of the key and you go up 5%. 

Looks

  • Nice machines
  • Nice details

 

Final notes

You will always be compared with ARMA and I do think that you can match, or outperform, ARMA if given time. I am sorry that I as well make the comparison. 

 

ARMA helicopters pilots needs to put in allot of hours to excel under fire. And it rewards the player with the ability to fix situations and failures that newer pilots could not resolve. Other games choose to have a more arcade approach were failures are always fatal and not resolvable. I do believe that you have the intention to give us incentives and rewards for putting in the training hours.

 

If you haven't already tried please try to reach out to Dslyecxi at ShackTactical. He is a good instructor, judging from his video tutorials, and through these videos commands respect from the online flying community. His comments could prove to be of assistance to you in your endeavor.

 

I have been flying transport helicopter in every game that have allowed me to so I hope, and believe, you will do a great work with this aspect as you already have done with the others parts that are implemented into the game.

 

You have already created a great game!

Keep your spirits high and stay motivated!

 

//Primetarget83 [SMIL]

 

 

Are you a pilot IRL? 

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They need more inertia for sure, they accelerate and decelerate way too fast now. But in general the feeling is quite good considering its the first iteration. instruments are nice and the damageable rotors are so sweet.

They should also be vulnerable to HE rounds from heavier guns. The AA guns for example, a bit weird that the only dedicated AA gun in game do no damage at all against helos...

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What exactly do you mean with a skilled pilot can counter a failed tail rotor? That sounds extremely made up and unrealistic. You cant defy laws of physics no matter how good you are. The helicopter WILL spin out of control without the tail rotor and there is nothing you can do  about it.

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17 minutes ago, Tony32 said:

What exactly do you mean with a skilled pilot can counter a failed tail rotor? That sounds extremely made up and unrealistic. You cant defy laws of physics no matter how good you are. The helicopter WILL spin out of control without the tail rotor and there is nothing you can do  about it.

That is what I thought as well but I'm no pilot. 

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3 minutes ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

That is what I thought as well but I'm no pilot. 

I also watched youtube. It's possible to counter it slightly if its not completely failed. But it would be real hard to make it hard to counter in a game. Just hold the opposite direction (strafe like flying) which isnt hard in a game, but incredibly so IRL.

 

 

Edited by Tony32

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4 hours ago, Tony32 said:

What exactly do you mean with a skilled pilot can counter a failed tail rotor? That sounds extremely made up and unrealistic. You cant defy laws of physics no matter how good you are. The helicopter WILL spin out of control without the tail rotor and there is nothing you can do  about it.

Perhaps you should Google stuff before posting solely based on your hunches and feelings about what "sounds unrealistic" 

 

You'd find that the tail rotor failure is manageable by the pilot and the recovery procedure is also simulated and taught when you actually learn to fly. There are tons of readily available video evidence as well. 

Edited by MultiSquid

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I don't think it would be too bad. Our procedures are basically to stay above a minimum airspeed and do a run-on landing. In single-rotor helicopters, the vertical fin starts to relieve the tail rotor from having to provide all of the directional control the higher your airspeed. Landing is more tricky if you don't have the space to do a run-on landing because you'll start to spin if you're not controlling your power right.  I don't know anything about making flight models in-game though. It boils down to above say 60KTS= little spin, the more you go below 60KTS with power=more spin. I'm not sure on the numbers for blackhawks though.

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8 hours ago, Tony32 said:

What exactly do you mean with a skilled pilot can counter a failed tail rotor? That sounds extremely made up and unrealistic. You cant defy laws of physics no matter how good you are. The helicopter WILL spin out of control without the tail rotor and there is nothing you can do  about it.

I'm no pilot and even I heard of reducing collective to stop the spin.

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7 hours ago, EcchiRevenge said:

I'm no pilot and even I heard of reducing collective to stop the spin.

i'm not either but i do know a bit about the mechanics, so reducing the collective (which reduces torque, iirc) sounds about right.

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Ya it does.  Heres a pretty generic emergency procedure for loss of tail rotor effectiveness (not a complete loss), for counter-clockwise (almost all US helicopters)

1.Pedal - Full Left

2.Cyclic - Forward

3.As recovery is effected, adjust controls for normal flight

4. If spin cannot be stopped and a crash is imminent, autorotation may be the best course of action. Maintain full left pedal until the spin stops, then adjust to maintain heading.

 

Collective reduction will aid in arresting the yaw rate, however,  if a rate of descent has been established, collective reduction may increase the rate of descent to an excessive value.  The resultant large and rapid increase to prevent ground contact may further increase yaw rate, decrease rotor RPM, and cause an overtemp/overtorque. The decision to reduce collective based on altitude available.

 

Now that might be pretty hard to get in a game like a squad, but something simplified might be doable.

Edited by Guardian

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On 27.9.2019 at 11:08 PM, Primetarget said:

First impressions on helicopters.

Training mission only.

Piloting only.

 

Handling

  • Way too easy to accelerate from slow speeds
    • Accelerated -4 to 43 knots in two-three meters distance when I accidentally dropped the nose. That is too fast.
  • Inertia is off
    • It feels very arcade like and hollow. In low speeds it is too sensitive. Not the tail rotor how ever, it feels sluggish at all speeds.
    • These does not feel like heavy lifters, these big helicopters need to demand some respect from the user.
  • Yaw 
    • Yaw is sluggish and it is true at all speeds, not only high speeds where it should(!) be sluggish
  • Quick stops / Turns
    • Tried a quickstop maneuver that is easiest described as a sideways flare. Spent 2h on this maneuver alone. This  is conducted by turning either way aggressively having the fuselage tilted 90 degrees, applying rear rotor in the direction of the turn, pulling back hard on the stick and sliding along the flight path with the belly of the fuselage facing original direction of travel aligned with the horizon. 
    • Even though I have the full side tilt with the main rotor facing fully away from the direction of flight it does not produce the expected result. It went into a rather wide turn instead of slowing down at an accelerated pace.
    • I did however notice that if you let the rear rotor fall lower the nose and do not keep the airframe aligned with the horizon the the flare is more effective. The game seems to interpret that pitching up above the horizon as the main means of deaccelerating and not the lift from the main rotor. 
    • The airframe itself when sideways does not seem to generate lift, or have the inertia set up perfectly, so even if I hold the aggressive turn for too long it does not fall sideways towards the ground.
    • Spontaneously it feels that the game at the moment does not handle the lift from the rotors properly.

Failures

  • Autorotation
    • Would love if you added it
  • Tailrotor failure
    • Love the panicked spinning
    • It seems to maintain the spinning at the same altitude 
    • Needs to be correctable at perfect conditions with a good pilot
  • Crashes
    • Alarms - Great
    • Warning Lights - Great
    • Tumbeling, rolling and the dust that kicks up. Lovely.
    • Can already hear my panicked passengers on local speech crying out in despair and anger over my poor flight skills. Love it.

Controls

  • Could not invert the mouse for helicopter. This was a grand contributor to my crashes.
  • Did not try the joystick yet
  • Collective slider with keyboard is to inprecise. A single tap of the key and you go up 5%. 

Looks

  • Nice machines
  • Nice details

 

Final notes

You will always be compared with ARMA and I do think that you can match, or outperform, ARMA if given time. I am sorry that I as well make the comparison. 

 

ARMA helicopters pilots needs to put in allot of hours to excel under fire. And it rewards the player with the ability to fix situations and failures that newer pilots could not resolve. Other games choose to have a more arcade approach were failures are always fatal and not resolvable. I do believe that you have the intention to give us incentives and rewards for putting in the training hours.

 

If you haven't already tried please try to reach out to Dslyecxi at ShackTactical. He is a good instructor, judging from his video tutorials, and through these videos commands respect from the online flying community. His comments could prove to be of assistance to you in your endeavor.

 

I have been flying transport helicopter in every game that have allowed me to so I hope, and believe, you will do a great work with this aspect as you already have done with the others parts that are implemented into the game.

 

You have already created a great game!

Keep your spirits high and stay motivated!

 

//Primetarget83 [SMIL]

 

 

totaly agree with that...100%....thanks for saving my time to wirte down the same ;) . It feels like u play a bad arcade heli-sim. Dont get it wrong, i love that game and all of your Updates so far, but this "heli-thing", is why i bought this game. I cant even play/test the PU bcause im so disappointed. Plz make it more like a sim and throw that acarde feeling away. Thanks Devs!!!!

 

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honestly just copy paste PR heli control.

i dont like the correct control that you just put the "speed" or what ever it called to 100% and it maintain 100% till you press "S" to lower the speed.

i spend more time looking at HUD to get to that 45 angle sweet spot then "feeling the choper" 

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Posted (edited)

After some testing on the training grounds I have a few wishes already:

 

1. Fully keyboard controlled flight needs to be made possible, ie; roll left, roll right, pitch up, pitch down. I find flying with the mouse pretty unpleasant, though I will admit this is a personal issue. It is connected however with another feature I would like added which is...

 

2. Freelook at all times; flying without freelook, and having to block all other mouse input while looking around is quite annoying and unrealistic. I cannot stress enough how much I miss being able to look into a turn while setting up for a tight landing or flying in between objects.

 

3. Flight mechanics feel a little off in some regards as described by the thread creator though I do understand this is a work in progress. It's manageable but not ideal atm.

Edited by Slavinkje

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This "collective'' is quite annoying. Personally i prefer a simple up and down key, and some mouse controls like Arma 3. But there should ofcourse still be a challenge.

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