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pappachuck

Helicopters are too blulletproof

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They simply can take a large amount of hits from BTR-82, AA gun, Bradleys, .50 cal , and even PKM or m240.

It is not balanced. We need faster maneuverable helis instead of these flying tanks that can get shot down by a TOW or tank easily.

 

For real, helis are an element of surprise, they must be fast for that.

So far they are used as HAB spammers.

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Just because you are not skilled enough with a gun or as a pilot doesn't mean it needs to be changed, I think the health is balenced enough for what it is and mind you this is a troop transport heli, not an attack chopper. Heavy armor, radio construction and transport of up to 12 people (including the driver) is a hell of a monster but the challenge is to learn how to actually pilot the thing, people often take to flying low and expecting to bob and weave the incoming tank shells and BTR rounds when most of the time they either A: Hit a tree and die or B: get stuck too low and slow to get away. As a gunner of a IFV your job is to sustain fire on the target and deter the attackers, you may not always blow them up but you sure as shit can send them limping home. As a pilot your job is to get there safe and fast, flying high may seem like a death trap but with there being no lock on AA there is no reason to be close enough to the ground to be tracked by a turret or be within aiming height of something that can kill you, fly high, swoop in and drop, soar again and go home, that's your job; If you came to get in dog fights, you are using the TRANSPORT wrong.

Learn to fly first, then suggest changes.
0B287D0D752C0A334A7D9F69A6B2DE0EFB295258

Edited by The Goth Cat

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I think you did not Read anything.

I said LESS ARMOR/hull health  ----- MORE SPEED 200 to 250 knots

I survive the entire match without dying a single time on the heli. It does not make sense a 30mm or AA hit me multiple times and I can easily get away.

At least on the mod a few shots from 30mm or AA and you were ****ed. These helis are too strong for my taste.

 

Speed also makes for the element of surprise, 100 knots is not fast.

 

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1 hour ago, The Goth Cat said:

Just because you are not skilled enough with a gun or as a pilot doesn't mean it needs to be changed, I think the health is balenced enough for what it is and mind you this is a troop transport heli, not an attack chopper. Heavy armor, radio construction and transport of up to 12 people (including the driver) is a hell of a monster but the challenge is to learn how to actually pilot the thing, people often take to flying low and expecting to bob and weave the incoming tank shells and BTR rounds when most of the time they either A: Hit a tree and die or B: get stuck too low and slow to get away. As a gunner of a IFV your job is to sustain fire on the target and deter the attackers, you may not always blow them up but you sure as shit can send them limping home. As a pilot your job is to get there safe and fast, flying high may seem like a death trap but with there being no lock on AA there is no reason to be close enough to the ground to be tracked by a turret or be within aiming height of something that can kill you, fly high, swoop in and drop, soar again and go home, that's your job; If you came to get in dog fights, you are using the TRANSPORT wrong.

Learn to fly first, then suggest changes.
0B287D0D752C0A334A7D9F69A6B2DE0EFB295258

This goober didn't read anything and went straight to how good of a pilot he is and how OP needs to get good at flying.

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16 minutes ago, Rybec said:

This goober didn't read anything and went straight to how good of a pilot he is and how OP needs to get good at flying.

Goober didn't read what I said and assumed I was just saying he was a bad pilot.

It's a transport, doesn't need to go fast, armor is okay because it is it's only means to survive and has no means of real defence besides putting away.

Edited by The Goth Cat

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3 hours ago, The Goth Cat said:

within aiming height

there's a height? or should i say, there's a distance limit for balistics? other than simply leaving the game boundry?

otherwise every helo that is more than about 50m in the air will be a relativley easy target for pretty much anything with a decently big gun on it.

i agree that 'trans' helos are not the high speed attack machines as the OP appears to wish for - maybe we'll get higher speed helos if littlebirds or similar is added. They are also not covered in armour, i presume.

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3 minutes ago, LaughingJack said:

there's a height? or should i say, there's a distance limit for balistics? other than simply leaving the game boundry?

otherwise every helo that is more than about 50m in the air will be a relativley easy target for pretty much anything with a decently big gun on it.

 

There is a radius that the guns can aim and if you are above say, a tank, it can't point it's gun straight up at you, also the more distance you have from the target, the harder it is to hit.

Also, you can lift to 250m so good luck landing BTR rounds on something that far away moving 90 knots.

Edited by The Goth Cat

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Your inferred assumption about me is quite wrong. I'm not simpleton-talking about basic ballistics and barrel elevation constraints here, i'm discussing this " there is no reason to be close enough to the ground to be tracked by a turret or be within aiming height of something that can kill you " - except of course every time you ascend/descend (lift/land), which is the slowest movement times for the helo's and can offer plenty of opportunity for someone to plug you with anything they have at hand.

2 hours ago, The Goth Cat said:

Also, you can lift to 250m so good luck landing BTR rounds on something that far away moving 90 knots.

yes i'd need some luck until i got my eye in, assuming the example you give, but by no means is it impossible, or your example typical. However if the helo is doing 90kn going not-directly-across my POV, i'll put money on hitting it more than not. Once you learn to track your fire along those distances and attitudes it won't be terribly hard - we got quite good at it in JO.

I have already seen a vid showing a helo taken down while moving, by a single tank shell, from about 200-300m.

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5 hours ago, LaughingJack said:

Your inferred assumption about me is quite wrong. I'm not simpleton-talking about basic ballistics and barrel elevation constraints here, i'm discussing this " there is no reason to be close enough to the ground to be tracked by a turret or be within aiming height of something that can kill you " - except of course every time you ascend/descend (lift/land), which is the slowest movement times for the helo's and can offer plenty of opportunity for someone to plug you with anything they have at hand.

yes i'd need some luck until i got my eye in, assuming the example you give, but by no means is it impossible, or your example typical. However if the helo is doing 90kn going not-directly-across my POV, i'll put money on hitting it more than not. Once you learn to track your fire along those distances and attitudes it won't be terribly hard - we got quite good at it in JO.

I have already seen a vid showing a helo taken down while moving, by a single tank shell, from about 200-300m.

We are not arguing possibilities here, we are talking liklies. I never claimed you are invincible when you fly high, I was simply saying it makes you a harder nut to crack at such range and with the armor that is on it, not to mention I've not seen the video you are talking about so I have no bearing on how skilled the pilot or gunner are, my only argument is that if you fly high, though you are prone to be shot AT, you are less likely to be HIT. Not to mention that you say descending is slow, not at all, unless you have no idea how to land or you are going for the most vertical landing zone in the game, there is no reason to slow down on approach. Most of the time I just go into a death dive and pull out to a stop about 25-40m from the ground and land (as soft as I can) and leave, the longest part of my landings is getting people to leave.

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UH-60 can go up to 220 Knots

Mi-8 up to 150 knots

 

My points summarized

This is the real thing, I do not see why not 220 knots

These helis are pretty much invulnerable and unstoppable.

Low speed like 90 or below allow a TOW shot, I have done those shots and other people did. It is a medium difficult TOW shot.

The flight mechanics are crap, from experience i know they coded the easiest way possible just to get it done.

 

Speed and maneuverability >>>(way better than)>>>>> invulnerability 

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4 hours ago, pappachuck said:

I do not see why not 220 knots

Aerodynamic and structural instability. You really don't want to fly an aircraft past its never-exceed speed, unless you want to risk watching the thing disintegrate right under you.

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On 9/24/2019 at 1:44 PM, pappachuck said:

I think you did not Read anything.

I said LESS ARMOR/hull health  ----- MORE SPEED 200 to 250 knots

I survive the entire match without dying a single time on the heli. It does not make sense a 30mm or AA hit me multiple times and I can easily get away.

At least on the mod a few shots from 30mm or AA and you were ****ed. These helis are too strong for my taste.

 

Speed also makes for the element of surprise, 100 knots is not fast.

 

 

Well considering Vne is BELOW 195kts on a real UH-60, I don't think you'll ever see 200-250 knots.

 

160-180 kts is a more respectable speed. (Ref Army TM 1-1520-237-10 CH 5-14 [Unclassified])

 

Vne chart

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3 hours ago, goststriker said:

 

Well considering Vne is BELOW 195kts on a real UH-60, I don't think you'll ever see 200-250 knots.

 

160-180 kts is a more respectable speed. (Ref Army TM 1-1520-237-10 CH 5-14 [Unclassified])

 

Vne chart

Well, it is faster than what it is right now.

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On 9/24/2019 at 3:12 PM, The Goth Cat said:

Just because you are not skilled enough with a gun or as a pilot doesn't mean it needs to be changed, I think the health is balenced enough for what it is and mind you this is a troop transport heli, not an attack chopper. Heavy armor, radio construction and transport of up to 12 people (including the driver) is a hell of a monster but the challenge is to learn how to actually pilot the thing, people often take to flying low and expecting to bob and weave the incoming tank shells and BTR rounds when most of the time they either A: Hit a tree and die or B: get stuck too low and slow to get away. As a gunner of a IFV your job is to sustain fire on the target and deter the attackers, you may not always blow them up but you sure as shit can send them limping home. As a pilot your job is to get there safe and fast, flying high may seem like a death trap but with there being no lock on AA there is no reason to be close enough to the ground to be tracked by a turret or be within aiming height of something that can kill you, fly high, swoop in and drop, soar again and go home, that's your job; If you came to get in dog fights, you are using the TRANSPORT wrong.

Learn to fly first, then suggest changes.
0B287D0D752C0A334A7D9F69A6B2DE0EFB295258

As usual the shills always try to attack someone's skill instead of considering the idea that anything could be wrong with the game itself.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c0-vNcXd1qBAyN6Z3ldGXS_w8IwsftP8dEkYGVt997E/edit#gid=0
 

PROJECTILE BASED    
Damage Lost Over Distance
   
NSV/KORD .50 Cal KINETIC 162 until 800m 70 at 1.8km
KPVT 14.5mm KINETIC 170 until 1km 35 at 2km


As can be seen from data taken from SDK: KPVT drops to abysmal damage(same as infantry rifle minimums) at 2KM(the kind of range where us skillful gunners still hit enemy choppers)  12.7mm starts beating 14.5mm in damage at around 1600m or so...this is unacceptable

Also, somehow HE rounds in this game have abysmal penetration(which is unrealistic as IRL high caliber HE-frag can simply demolish thinner vehicles) to the point where iirc HE rounds do nothing to choppers even if they land.


-----------------------
Transport choppers cost almost nothing ticket-wise currently.  Add the ability to make FOB means you can have a minimum crew of 3(1 pilot, 1 SL, 1 digger) and just make FOB behind enemy lines to spawn in half the team if not more.  The worst case is chopper being blown up in the sky(which doesn't really happen that often) and you still lose barely any tickets compare to trucks.

Low risk - high reward, which is generally a bad thing in this kind of game.

The least developers can do is make trans choppers much more vulnerable to fire; so that it pays to have some people take out-of-the-way AA positions on maps with effective vehicles...etc.

Back in Project Reality, Choppers need to make two runs(with the exception of Chinooks which are fat) to have enough crates(only carry one at a time, two are needed) to build a FOB so it's not so bad(as first run should be at least heard and defending team will be ready to shoot it down at the second run).

Currently, the lowest capacity for a chopper is 1000; that's more than enough for HAB + ammobox + enough ammo for a squad.

Edited by EcchiRevenge

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