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A15 Survey Review

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20 hours ago, Thr34t said:

You literally had a meltdown in your post, but think my comment was inappropriate? 

 

Even of you really twisted the logic for it to fit your agenda: 

 

What meltdown???...what agenda??? what are you talking about.

 

If you have 14 minutes. watch this:

 

 

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On 10/4/2019 at 6:39 PM, RB79BALL said:

Guys who love PR. Despair not, Athena mod is coming!

 

3 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

Dude!  I´m dying to see a PR mod. I support ATHENA all the way. I´m also dissappointed about the way SQUAD is taking...

+1

 

I'm also very sad to see current trend in Squad. Looks like they are pushing for arcade style of gameplay. I feel like big opportunity is slipping away and this game is going to be just another average fps... I hope at least we will have PR-like mod. But that fact makes me kinda disappointed... 

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7 minutes ago, Disco said:

 

+1

 

I'm also very sad to see current trend in Squad. Looks like they are pushing for arcade style of gameplay. I feel like big opportunity is slipping away and this game is going to be just another average fps... I hope at least we will have PR-like mod. But that fact makes me kinda disappointed... 

I would be more happy if thy put in a buying stuff like golden ak and kids stuff like that like in csgo so kids could waste their money that way so the developers would earn money that way better then earning money by making the game arcade like all the other games on here and getting new players.

We should not be happy for a mod we need to voice up and do something so this game of ours in what a lot of us invested time ,money ,suggestions and many many other things.

We could edit our feedbacks that we left on steam like many players did when it came to the new Metro 2035 game.  

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4 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

 

There´s no need for comments like this. All it does is créate tensión and rivalry between players. If you want players to see how good your idea of gameplay is and share it with them persuade them. RESPECT them and be friendly. If you attack the like this all you do is put against you (and PR/ATHEMA by association) people that would otherwise have joined the mod out of curiosity and probably stayed there for good.

 

And if they like more arcade games with instant action...so what? they are entitled to.

So they're entitled to an opinion but I'm not? I'm not saying they're bad people, I'm saying they don't like to communicate and aren't willing to invest the time and effort into a more drawn out, strategic and squad cohesive play style. If that comment upsets them they need a skin graft.

 

And the reason I used the term third rate is because I'd consider myself a second rate PR player ;-)

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6 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

I'm saying they don't like to communicate and aren't willing to invest the time and effort into a more drawn out, strategic and squad cohesive play style. If that comment upsets them they need a skin graft.

Well. Then say that. You called them "3rd rate PR players". Which in their minds (and so would it in yours) sounds like "3rd rate players". And they WILL feel ofended and I´m surprised you don´t know that.

 

If u wanted to say that "they may not be willing to invest their time in more Deep and tactical gameplay". Then say that. Which is ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!!!

 

You do have an opinión. And yours is the same as mine. But there are different ways of expressing it.

 

BTW im also a 3rd rate PR player...if not 4th...;)

 

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Interesting vid. title is spot-on. He uses the most effective and fundamental tactic available - simples!

 

BR's introduced because big maps: i don't swallow this either, even as a stop-gap. In the JO days we played on open maps that covered 10's of square km's without the aid of user-placed magic portals to help us when we made a mistake.

 

One thing i noticed, he was pushing the "kill the spawn" ideal, and it surprised me that he was inferring that the vast majority of players ignored this and instead played shoot-em-ups, which is fine in of itself of course.

The really interesting thing was this infers nobody even thinks about the spawns or that they should be killed.

 

I'll refer back to JO because in that game the primary aim, for the majority of players, was to get into the Cap to halt the spawn as players spawned in the zone, which stopped reinforcements, forcing them to hoof it from another Cap(spawn) - taking the zone, because you were there, was secondary.

The fundamental idea in Squad/JO/other-related-game-style: to deny the enemy (halt/kill spawning), to enable taking of the Cap <- THE singular thing required to win (funfact: we used to take Caps with just two players (sometimes only one player) by using the correct tactics, and this was the norm for us most of the time).

 

I noticed the Deep And Tactical Gameplay comment above: tbh from my pov Squad is open to tactics, just like virtually every other game ... ever, but i do not consider it to be "deeply" tactical, it may appear that way if you're from a BF/CoD background but it's just not. It certainly is a fantastic game, has some interesting and complex role playing aspects but it is not 'deeply tactical' - playing ArmA2/3 was way deeper than Squad will ever be but that's ArmA's thing, not Squads' (i just think it's funny when peeps think Squad is actually that beast).

 

Of course because i'm an old JO player and as such i find the idea of user-placed spawns(etc.) to be gamey, so there's that ;)

 

 

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5 hours ago, LaughingJack said:

Interesting vid. title is spot-on. He uses the most effective and fundamental tactic available - simples!

 

BR's introduced because big maps: i don't swallow this either, even as a stop-gap. In the JO days we played on open maps that covered 10's of square km's without the aid of user-placed magic portals to help us when we made a mistake.

 

One thing i noticed, he was pushing the "kill the spawn" ideal, and it surprised me that he was inferring that the vast majority of players ignored this and instead played shoot-em-ups, which is fine in of itself of course.

The really interesting thing was this infers nobody even thinks about the spawns or that they should be killed.

 

I'll refer back to JO because in that game the primary aim, for the majority of players, was to get into the Cap to halt the spawn as players spawned in the zone, which stopped reinforcements, forcing them to hoof it from another Cap(spawn) - taking the zone, because you were there, was secondary.

The fundamental idea in Squad/JO/other-related-game-style: to deny the enemy (halt/kill spawning), to enable taking of the Cap <- THE singular thing required to win (funfact: we used to take Caps with just two players (sometimes only one player) by using the correct tactics, and this was the norm for us most of the time).

 

I noticed the Deep And Tactical Gameplay comment above: tbh from my pov Squad is open to tactics, just like virtually every other game ... ever, but i do not consider it to be "deeply" tactical, it may appear that way if you're from a BF/CoD background but it's just not. It certainly is a fantastic game, has some interesting and complex role playing aspects but it is not 'deeply tactical' - playing ArmA2/3 was way deeper than Squad will ever be but that's ArmA's thing, not Squads' (i just think it's funny when peeps think Squad is actually that beast).

 

Of course because i'm an old JO player and as such i find the idea of user-placed spawns(etc.) to be gamey, so there's that ;)

 

 

A couple comparison/contrasts though with JO vs Squad is the Main Base always had some type of transport available whether it was a motorcycle, buggy, apc or chopper because they were constantly respawning literally a few minutes after being destroyed or abandoned. In addition, despite the map being nearly infinite in size the actual distance between flags in the stock AAS maps were always reasonably close. Certainly running between each flag took only 5 minutes at most. The major distance in all Delta Force games was always between Main and the first objective, sometimes several kilometers.

 

That said, in JO also the AAS flags themselves had an inner and outer zone as well. The outer ring only neutralized the flag if I recall correctly and then you had to occupy the inner ring to capture the flag and often times you had to actually be on the upper floors of a building to capture.

 

Needless to say, I wouldn't say Squad is any more or less tactical or arcade than JO in this respect. They both just accomplished the same result of keeping players engaged in the action but utilized a different approach.

 

As far as the original topic goes though, getting all carried away arguing about the semantics of some pie charts all seems a bit silly to me when you consider that supposedly there are over a million concurrent owners and only a little over 3000 of them actually knew about it and then actually voted. Such a poll is completely unscientific in this respect and certainly shouldn't be utilized as a basis for any decisions regarding changes to gameplay.

 

 

 

 

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When I asked in last squad devtalk in Twitch, the dev also not happy with weapons effectiveness on distance and suppression system. Also he stated that majority love it and not planning to touch to it for some time. They are swaying away from their actual project whether they like it or not to gain playerbase. Only thing that is players supported them through years want something else. We used to slow development in Project Reality because it is a free mod, we can not complain but they do whatever they and we want 90%. Now they are using surveys to say no to us which is really sad.

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17 minutes ago, DesertTigerTR said:

Now they are using surveys to say no to us which is really sad.

Sad indeed...

 

I still have hopes for buddy rally being removed (or drastically changed) for the vanilla game...

 

But my real hopes are for mods to make the game Deep again and to be what it was supossed to be from the beggining. Support ATHENA mod.

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8 hours ago, DesertTigerTR said:

They are swaying away from their actual project whether they like it or not to gain playerbase.

I come in dead last as a sycophant, fanboy or groupie for [OWI]. However, I'm a firm supporter of capitalism, a free market economy and the law of supply and demand. Within that paradigm I'll always be supportive of them making any game they choose to make because they need to make a living like everyone else.

 

They never once promised to clone PR only make a "spiritual successor" which has been mentioned ad nauseum. At the end of the day remember that its only just another fps video game in a long line of other similar games that have subsequently come and gone. Eventually like all the previous titles it will become obsolete and be replaced by the next greatest thing. You can't stop progress.

 

The survey itself only reflects players that have not only stuck around but also actually knew about it from the link in the game or social media.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I come in dead last as a sycophant, fanboy or groupie for [OWI]. However, I'm a firm supporter of capitalism, a free market economy and the law of supply and demand. Within that paradigm I'll always be supportive of them making any game they choose to make because they need to make a living like everyone else.

 

They never once promised to clone PR only make a "spiritual successor" which has been mentioned ad nauseum. At the end of the day remember that its only just another fps video game in a long line of other similar games that have subsequently come and gone. Eventually like all the previous titles it will become obsolete and be replaced by the next greatest thing. You can't stop progress.

 

The survey itself only reflects players that have not only stuck around but also actually knew about it from the link in the game or social media.

 

 

Your understanding of progress is somewhat different than me I guess. Progress of what? Quality improvement of some aspect or quantity of gain? You are just picking some words to prove me wrong like they never promised "PR clone". Yes they did not but they did not promised a game that becoming another casual BF game step by step.

 

This game is not ARMA like simulation neither casual like BF, COD. They have a unique game style which they need to improve to have a place in the industry. Clones of other games do not make money but if you are different you can have a share. You can support your own capitalistic ideas but here we are discussing something that impacts on us. Also in you opinion once we buy the game we are out of question in decision making because we are no longer have monetary value in the eyes of the devs, because we already gave the money and will not provide more to them in future(unless DLC).

 

Also we are not saying survey reflects the players. We are saying that they are showing us those survey results to show us they did right. We are talking about intention but you missed the point.

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Posted (edited)

I am almost sure that they are not making things up, because they dont have to. In the past two years the community changed 360 degrees. SLs only communicate through the main command channel on G, even when they are only talking to one of the SLs. Why should you use the Num keys, when you can interfere with two or more other SLs to clearly understand his squad members or you interfere with his ability to communicate because he cant here what he is saying, because he at the same time has to listen to information on the command chat that doesn't involve him at all. At the end of a game you always hear that your team lost because they don't communicate enough. Is this opinion based on facts ? Absolutely not, because you actually shouldn't even communicate there but coordinate. Those SLs are not using the information from the real time strategy map and this is what the US and any other military wants to move to. Why because the informations about your and enemy movements are transferred-communicated almost instantly, which makes you side 5-10 times more effective. And than there is the Logistical part: Ammo and the ability to spawn on a HAB. Still you hear SLs say you should spawn now, fast, immediately on a Rally even when there is a 60s delay after you set it up, before you can actually spawn.

 

There is nothing wrong with the game, and everything with the community, who doesn't understand the facts in Squad and are not using the features who are in the game.

Edited by ExpressDelivery

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4 hours ago, DesertTigerTR said:

Also in you opinion once we buy the game we are out of question in decision making because we are no longer have monetary value in the eyes of the devs, because we already gave the money and will not provide more to them in future(unless DLC).

Involving and engaging customers in an "early access" crowd funded video game development model will be looked back by future generations as one of the biggest mistakes ever made in the industry in my opinion.

 

First and foremost in such a flawed model the game development team becomes too familiar and intimate with its customers resulting in all kinds of inappropriate behavior unrelated to the actual important tasks.

 

(we've seen this occur repeatedly)

 

Secondly, because the game development process is so transparent often times factions form within the game community based on trivial features and attributes which more often than not results in a schism.

 

(again, we've seen this occur already with basically three factions, Arcade/Casual, Competitive and Project Reality fans)

 

So in conclusion why do you think people like John Carmack, John Romero, Gabe Newell and Tim Sweeney didn't already think of this model along time ago, with engaging future customers on a personal level and begging for money?

 

Obviously because its much more intelligent and professional to simply go get investors and/or loans and then go develop their games behind closed doors. Needless to say, I'm betting its a lot less stressful than dealing with a bunch of entitled weirdos that think you owe them a sniper role or buddy rally because they paid you $40.

 

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9 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Obviously because its much more intelligent and professional to simply go get investors and/or loans and then go develop their games behind closed doors. Needless to say, I'm betting its a lot less stressful than dealing with a bunch of entitled weirdos that think you owe them a sniper role or buddy rally because they paid you $40.

 

I partly agree with you.

 

The part in which I disagree is that they are not really stressed exaclty because of the opposite. They are NOT listening to the community that much.

 

In my opinion, the devs are creating the game they wanted to créate. 

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11 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Needless to say, I'm betting its a lot less stressful than dealing with a bunch of entitled weirdos that think you owe them a sniper role or buddy rally because they paid you $40.

 

 Well, they did more than just $40.

First, backers supported the project way before steam early access $40. The average backer put 97,53 CA$ on the table to found the project and helped to spread the word on other sites, media and between clans & friends.

Secondly while close pre-alpha they got a good chunk of feedback to improve. The Devs and their Community had the same goals in mind for Squad.

Third, after ~ 6 months the V3 got released to the mass via steam early access on the 15 Dec 2015 and a lot of backers helped newcomers to play and learn the game that they didn't get frightened and leave the game behind. Helping to grow a stable player base.

 

After investing time and money, it cant be to much if we ask for the common goals we once had together all based on communication, teamwork and coordinate as a team.

 

Source links:

https://joinsquad.com/2015/05/26/kickstarter-live/

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131654

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=402654862

https://joinsquad.com/2015/04/19/squad-is-now-greenlit/

 

 

Edited by Phoenixstorm

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All I know is that the game needs to be fixed from crashing, I always play hardcore, and top at least 30+ kills every third round, but there are too many casual players. Most servers are run by in-experienced, power hungry casual players that promote how their server can teach them how to become good at the game, but not enforce hardcore gameplay, which means they're not teaching you how to become good, just a casual bad player. Which breeds more bad players that eventually ruin what little there is left of a once great experience.

Humvee's RIP
Actual skill RIP
Teamwork RIP
Tactical approaches RIP
Buddyrally BrokeTheGame

Edited:
Its not a shock when devs ask for funding to a project, and fail miserably, we see it all the time, don't invest in a project they can't fund themselves, the difference here with no funding, and funding:

No funding:
They have to listen to the consumers, if they dont do that they leave, and demand chargebacks of their money, and then they spend all that money on a ruined game that doesn't bring profit. (This is the type of game you want to play)

Funding:
They make people believe in the best, and show previews specially made to lure in people, take their money and slap a agreement on that so you can't chargeback, you bought the game, but the game isnt finished, they don't have to listen to you, they got their funding to start the project, no losses for them.

So at OWI the customers are the bitches, atm.


 

Edited by Atlan

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