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paragonid

Don't use squad number as a callsign on radio

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- Using number as a callsign has been popular since BF2:PR. One of the reasons was UI restrictions to easily read SLs nickname. Squad has somewhat improved on it, Caps Lock squads screen has all SL nicknames listed alongside squad numbers (unless SQ name is long).

 

1. Read SL number from map
2. Read SL nickname from list
3. Use SL nickname instead of the SL number in the communication

SL number as callsign works, but when used especially during broadcasting, it will require receiver to acknowledge additional bit of info as number, while there's already quite a lot of other numbered information in game, it brings less attention of intended receiver and more of everyone else. Every SL has to match his number to the number in the message, which is harder than just being called by the nickname.

 

Additionally there's barely any useful messages you could compose using squad number rather than SL nickname.

- Use your SL nickname instead of boss-naming (squadlead, lead, leader, etc)
- Use soldiers' nicknames instead of their roles (medic, at, etc).

You could extend this list to almost everything unspecific in the game to improve your communication. E.g. vehicles

Edited by paragonid

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I use whatever is the fastest at that time. If I look at the map, and have some quick intel for squad 1, I won't take the time to figure out what the squad 1 SL's name is. I just say Squad 1. 

Same with my own squad, if I don't remember/can't see what the medic or at is called, I will call them out with role instead. 

 

This all depends on how intense things are. If it's early game or things are calm, I can take my time. If not, effectiveness wins, always. 

 

All SLs should know which number their squad are. It's not that hard to remember.

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On 9/14/2019 at 10:53 AM, paragonid said:

it brings less attention of intended receiver and more of everyone else. Every SL has to match his number to the number in the message, which is harder than just being called by the nickname.

Or instead of being lazy, and spamming every SL with useless information in the game you could use proper radio discipline and talk to the specific squad using the keypad.

 Also given that many players have strangely written names, written in Leet speak, or just hard to pronounce for a non-native speaker can also add difficulties with using names rather than numbers.

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On 19/9/2019 at 9:06 PM, Jevski said:

Or instead of being lazy, and spamming every SL with useless information in the game you could use proper radio discipline and talk to the specific squad using the keypad.

 Also given that many players have strangely written names, written in Leet speak, or just hard to pronounce for a non-native speaker can also add difficulties with using names rather than numbers.

+1

 

SL 4 this is SL 1, I have  a guy on a logi RTB he can bring you supplies to build a fob at your posisiton if you want.

 

SL 1 this is SL 4, Roger that, We will secure the area and wait for him.

 

So simple.

So effective.

So elegant.

 

 

Edited by Nightingale87

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While Keypad is obviously a superior way when personal message intended, I couldn't find a reasonable way in standard controls setup to use it without losing control over movement keys/mouse. It means it's unusable in a combat situation unless you are ready to give up on movement/shooting.

Moving control keys so you have spare keys on the left of the standard movement or having Numpad keyboard there, would partially solve the problem (using pinky would still have to reorient to use bottom-left buttons around CTRL), but I'd estimate amount of people preparing such setup to be less than 5% anyway.

Still there's a lot of messages, while intended to give immediate information to 1 SL, would be useful for many in the area. "X, hab is disabled, but we haven't found the radio yet" while having 1 squad attacking it and others in the area will be useful for all of them. 

 

"Proper radio discipline" is a relative term, unless it's written down precisely and everyone agrees on it, it's useless to mention it.

I don't know how bad is it in your server/community, but where I typically play while there's no server rule on clear nicknames (I saw such in several places), still >90% of SLs have easily pronounceable nicknames, and 100% of decent ones xD



"

SL 4 this is SL 1, I have  a guy on a logi RTB he can bring you supplies to build a fob at your posisiton if you want.

 

SL 1 this is SL 4, Roger that, We will secure the area and wait for him.
"

Long ass bullshit, I'd mute SL1 on the second time he is using that for broadcasting.
SL 4 is pretty dumb, his answer should be either "Yes" or "No" only pronouncing his intention, he can't know if he will have secure anything at the moment logy arrives, so he'd have to update on the matter closer to the moment anyway.

Long (repetitive, has useless info, containing believes rather than facts) == ineffective, unreliable, useless for everyone else in team.

Edited by paragonid

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7 hours ago, paragonid said:

 

SL 4 this is SL 1, I have  a guy on a logi RTB he can bring you supplies to build a fob at your posisiton if you want.

 

SL 1 this is SL 4, Roger that, We will secure the area and wait for him.
"

Long ass bullshit, I'd mute SL1 on the second time he is using that for broadcasting.
SL 4 is pretty dumb, his answer should be either "Yes" or "No" only pronouncing his intention, he can't know if he will have secure anything at the moment logy arrives, so he'd have to update on the matter closer to the moment anyway.

Long (repetitive, has useless info, containing believes rather than facts) == ineffective, unreliable, useless for everyone else in team.

So you´ve never played PR then.

 

All the "radio discipline" you know comes from SQUAD... 

 

OK then...;)

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18 hours ago, paragonid said:

Long ass bullshit, I'd mute SL1 on the second time he is using that for broadcasting.
SL 4 is pretty dumb, his answer should be either "Yes" or "No" only pronouncing his intention, he can't know if he will have secure anything at the moment logy arrives, so he'd have to update on the matter closer to the moment anyway.

So you rather mute the SL that talks directly to another squad directly, than mute the guy who spams every SL because he cant figure out to bind keys correctly

Gotcha!

 

18 hours ago, paragonid said:

"Proper radio discipline" is a relative term, unless it's written down precisely and everyone agrees on it, it's useless to mention it.

Yeah its kinda like talking on the phone. You dont conference call everyone on your phone if you just have to order a pizza. Its amazing that ppl do that without having it written down and everyone agrees to it.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Proper+radio+discipline

 

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First link is clearly written down protocol of communication with examples for aircrafts.

And empty passive aggressive assumptions without arguments, gotcha.

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This got out of hand quickly when OP bashed a guy who gave a very good response and for some inexplicable reason doesn't seem to understand that "Rogger" means "Yes". Entertaining but also wtf?
105357471-beautiful-young-woman-eating-p

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8 hours ago, The Goth Cat said:

This got out of hand quickly when OP bashed a guy who gave a very good response and for some inexplicable reason doesn't seem to understand that "Rogger" means "Yes". Entertaining but also wtf?
105357471-beautiful-young-woman-eating-p

I think it´s perfectly on topic.

 

The OP suggests some changes to make communication better. But he has been explained that the current controls are perfectly fine if you use them in a way he hasn´t tried. 

 

But then he thinks that is "too long" and blablablá....

 

So we turned to radio discipline and how easily it can be mantained in SQUAD with current controls. As long as SLs are experienced enough. The thing is that 99% of SLs have picked up (what I consider is...) a bad habit of communicating every single thing to every single SL, instead of addressing the specific SL that has interest in a certain piece of information.

 

The OP thinks nicks, tags and "callsings" should adapt to the current method of communication, instead of just changing the habit of using the whole numpad to communicate propperly. 

 

So yes, it´s on topic.

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1 hour ago, Nightingale87 said:

I think it´s perfectly on topic.

 

The OP suggests some changes to make communication better. But he has been explained that the current controls are perfectly fine if you use them in a way he hasn´t tried. 

 

But then he thinks that is "too long" and blablablá....

 

So we turned to radio discipline and how easily it can be mantained in SQUAD with current controls. As long as SLs are experienced enough. The thing is that 99% of SLs have picked up (what I consider is...) a bad habit of communicating every single thing to every single SL, instead of addressing the specific SL that has interest in a certain piece of information.

 

The OP thinks nicks, tags and "callsings" should adapt to the current method of communication, instead of just changing the habit of using the whole numpad to communicate propperly. 

 

So yes, it´s on topic.

Never said it was off topic, just thought it was a romp when people stated flinging shit and some hit the fan, it was funny to me he thinks that S1 was an ass for asking a concise question and S4 responded with "Rogger" and he seemed to just ignore that when he said "He should say yes or no"... ("Rogger" means "yes" OP, just so you know...)

Also, I completely agree with the gentlemen expressing how to properly communicate using the numpad, I too often use general chat as I had forgotten that was even a feature, considering I left my SL kit at spawn for a Combat Engi the second they added it to the game, I think it was just a gap in knowledge while I was learning to play but never really picked up on because I left that section of the game before it could be mastered.


 

Edited by The Goth Cat

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Ahh why not? I've used it in the army, why can't I use it now? We used to use all kinds of crazy shit for call signs. If I know that squad 2 is Davis, then I know generally where he is and what he is doing. I don't want to take the time to call out. "Davis this is Sinclair, move  your squad 100 m south and we can squeeze the objective from 2 sides". Why not say "1 this is 2 move 100 m south blah blah blah". Don't worry you'll get the hang of it eventually.

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Broadcasting or direct doesn't matter, initial point still stands. Jevski's classic way of discussion is taking the conversation away from the intentional message. I never discussed if broadcasting is supposed to be used over direct in the first place.

You've been in military and still don't know why you are not supposed to use name of the officer on the comms? Should not have slept on the lessons then. It's not a military. It's a video game, and video game rules applied. I haven't seen any military winning gaming tournaments yet. Don't worry, you will get it if some proper education is applied.

Edited by paragonid

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10 hours ago, paragonid said:

Broadcasting or direct doesn't matter, initial point still stands. Jevski's classic way of discussion is taking the conversation away from the intentional message. I never discussed if broadcasting is supposed to be used over direct in the first place.

Your suggested approach is just adding extra steps to the communication process with little to no benefit. That's it.

 

SLs will call each other by name in competitive clan matches when they know each other and have already planned beforehand whom will lead which squad. Ain't nobody got time for that in public matches where the composition of squads changes by the minute. Better get used to pubbies calling your squad by its number, because it's not going away anytime soon.

Edited by MultiSquid

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11 hours ago, paragonid said:

Broadcasting or direct doesn't matter, initial point still stands. Jevski's classic way of discussion is taking the conversation away from the intentional message. I never discussed if broadcasting is supposed to be used over direct in the first place.

You've been in military and still don't know why you are not supposed to use name of the officer on the comms? Should not have slept on the lessons then. It's not a military. It's a video game, and video game rules applied. I haven't seen any military winning gaming tournaments yet. Don't worry, you will get it if some proper education is applied.

Your question has already been answered. If you are not familiar with other SLs´ names, then the easiest and quickest way is to reffer to them as "SL #".

 

On top of that, the most effective way is addressing specific SL for specific information and general for general interest. ALWAYS saying who´s speaking.

 

If you don´t like the answer you can keep asking or suggesting other things but don´t attack people for giving u an answer you don´t like.

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@Nightingale87 I've not been asking any questions. If you don't like my opinion, you don't need keep repeating yours, based only on your feelings and not backed up by evidence or theory making my argument invalid. So don't attack me for giving you opinion you don't like.

 

The most effective way to get high squad efficiency is to ignore all command chat in public matches anyway, as anyone decent with map will get better information from it, than listening to sls, while avoiding the noise of the useless discussions. If you are one of those, just enjoying yourself talking about stuff in military sim over VoIP with radio filter, don't join the thread to keep repeating that you are lazy and can't be arsed to read a nickname. I can write audio messages, which will take me 5 minutes less to create, but everyone else will need 10 times more to listen than read... So they will just ignore it. Same for squad leader comms. Easiest and fastest way to do it, is to ignore people who can't be arsed to read a nickname. If you want to be better communicator with less negative effect on other sl performance, you have to use nickname, if not, then no surprise, improving isn't for everyone.

 

There's huge amount of useful messages for squad comms which doesn't need to state who is speaking, because you don't need an answer.

"Tank is following you"

"Ambush on the road"

"You are losing flag"

"Enemies on your hab"

 

The only proper use for ALWAYS is a this message. Rest might have exceptions

 

@MultiSquid

There's quite some amount of decent squad leaders who are doing it in public matches, so ignoring it you are just justifying your lack of will to improve. Competitive isn't the place to practice and learn, if you can't do it in public, you will do it in comp too, but at least you understand that it's a superior way, which is first step (:

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1 hour ago, paragonid said:

@Nightingale87 I've not been asking any questions. If you don't like my opinion, you don't need keep repeating yours, based only on your feelings and not backed up by evidence or theory making my argument invalid. So don't attack me for giving you opinion you don't like.

I´m sorry butI think you´re a bit confused here.

 

Nobody attacked you. Instead, if you read the thread again, you will realice that you mentioned "jevski´s usual way of conducting an argument" as if he was diverting from the topic. Not only ignoring what he was saying, but addressing "the usual way he does things".

So if anything, you were attacking jevski. Read my msg again, I only said that your post HAD ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED AND IF YOU DON´T LIKE IT YOU CAN SUGGEST OTHER THINGS BUT DON´T ATTACK PEOPLE (LIKE YOU DID WITH JEVSKI)

 

1 hour ago, paragonid said:

@Nightingale87

 If you are one of those, just enjoying yourself talking about stuff in military sim over VoIP with radio filter, don't join the thread to keep repeating that you are lazy and can't be arsed to read a nickname. 

2 huge assumptions out of the blue right there. 

 

Appearently you thingk that I like to rolpe play with radio comms..¿?¿? well....ehmm…. simply… NO. It´s EASIER THAT WAY.

 

And it´s not about being lazy. I´ll explain it to u once and then just avoid the rest of this thread.

 

If there´s an SL called "PinkyFox", I can learn his name, no problem. But first issue I find...THERE ARE MANY MORE SLS. And in the map I see their numbers NOT THEIR NAMES.

Number 2 Even if I did learn the name and call "PinkyFox" using his name, whenever I broadcas or I talk to any other SL about PinkyFox, I HAVE TO ASSUME ALL THE OTHER SLS KNOW PINKYFOX, AND WHAT SQUAD HE IS IN.

 

AND this issue gets multilied by the number of Squads.

 

What you suggest is more complicated than this and is way less effective. Why? because you asume a lot of things in many given scenarios.

With your method, all Sls are required to do something, and you asume they do it. And you actually dont get anything from it. With my method, I dont demand anything form sls, and I dont asume they will do it. PERIOD.

 

Now....Out of curiosity...do you feel attacked???

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8 hours ago, paragonid said:

Stopped reading after quote, please stop attacking me

So shorter this time... 

10 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

 

 

If there´s an SL called "PinkyFox", I can learn his name, no problem. But first issue I find...THERE ARE MANY MORE SLS. And in the map I see their numbers NOT THEIR NAMES.

Number 2 Even if I did learn the name and call "PinkyFox" using his name, whenever I broadcas or I talk to any other SL about PinkyFox, I HAVE TO ASSUME ALL THE OTHER SLS KNOW PINKYFOX, AND WHAT SQUAD HE IS IN.

 

AND this issue gets multilied by the number of Squads.

 

What you suggest is more complicated than this and is way less effective. Why? because you asume a lot of things in many given scenarios.

With your method, all Sls are required to do something, and you asume they do it. And you actually dont get anything from it. With my method, I dont demand anything form sls, and I dont asume they will do it. PERIOD.

 

Now....Out of curiosity...do you feel attacked???

 

2 hours ago, Jevski said:

@Nightingale87
I dont think he wants to know how to improve. Only to know his way is the right way

 

Of course he read it. HE just had nothing to argue. 

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