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Squad Classic

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The whole wow classic bandwagon got me thinking. What about Squad Classic? Would you play a completely separate game that went back before vehicles and all the complicated minutiae that Squad has evolved into? A simplistic version of Squad that captured the nostalgia of the first few version?  Cooker fobs, long walks, dying, more long walks? Perhaps even cherry pick all the new maps and factions but revert back to the old school game?

 

I gotta tell you I'd pay $40 right now for it or $100 for a founders edition of Squad Legacy...

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7 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

The whole wow classic bandwagon got me thinking. What about Squad Classic? Would you play a completely separate game that went back before vehicles and all the complicated minutiae that Squad has evolved into? A simplistic version of Squad that captured the nostalgia of the first few version?  Cooker fobs, long walks, dying, more long walks? Perhaps even cherry pick all the new maps and factions but revert back to the old school game?

 

I gotta tell you I'd pay $40 right now for it or $100 for a founders edition of Squad Legacy…

 

Weren´t you of the idea that things like this would segregate the community? Everybody had to play the vanilla version and devs shouldn´t waste any time doing anything other than the basic version of the game?

 

You were very vocal about that. That was one of your most fundamental arguments. 

 

Interesting...

 

Edited by Nightingale87

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6 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

 

Weren´t you of the idea that things like this would segregate the community? Everybody had to play the vanilla version and devs shouldn´t waste any time doing anything other than the basic version of the game?

 

You were very vocal about that. That was one of your most fundamental arguments. 

 

Interesting...

 

Well it would be more like PR and PR is a gift from god that I put on pedestal, it has no flaws what so ever and is perfect.

 

in all seriousness though that is kinda funny

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24 minutes ago, Thegreenzzz said:

Well it would be more like PR and PR is a gift from god that I put on pedestal, it has no flaws what so ever and is perfect.

 

in all seriousness though that is kinda funny

Early versions of Squad had much less in common with PR than the current one, but hey, at least you're helping convince everyone that opponents of PR are often ill-informed. You won't see me complain.

 

I don't see why anyone would want to go back to early versions of Squad with placeholder mechanics. What we have now certainly isn't great, but you'd be hard pressed to argue that earlier versions were any better.

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4 minutes ago, MultiSquid said:

Early versions of Squad had much less in common with PR than the current one, but hey, at least you're helping convince everyone that opponents of PR are often ill-informed. You won't see me complain.

 

I don't see why anyone would want to go back to early versions of Squad with placeholder mechanics. What we have now certainly isn't great, but you'd be hard pressed to argue that earlier versions were any better.

I’ve never played PR, but I feel like quite a few people act like this

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4 hours ago, Thegreenzzz said:

I’ve never played PR, but I feel like quite a few people act like this

I fail to see how PR has anything to do with this thread.

 

Btw. You should play it. I´m not saying you´re going to like it, but you Will be able to see the broad picture of things like development goals, first backers complaints, inspiration of mechanics, etc.

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I played 3 matches of PR long ago just to see where squad came from. People kept bringing it up so i wanted to take a look for myself.

If only i knew of PR before Squad, i wouldn't have been playing trash planetside 2 for thousand of hours but PR instead.

The last few days i've made the u-turn from squad and went back to PR. The game is held back by the engine limits of BF2 but it gives me more of a team feeling game than squad. Maybe it will wear off when i'm actually playing anything more than a rifleman but for now, i'll stick to it.

 

Squad has kept me busy for 1200+ hours but since v13 it's been going downhill for me.

Edited by oTec

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6 hours ago, oTec said:

I played 3 matches of PR long ago just to see where squad came from. People kept bringing it up so i wanted to take a look for myself.

If only i knew of PR before Squad, i wouldn't have been playing trash planetside 2 for thousand of hours but PR instead.

The last few days i've made the u-turn from squad and went back to PR. The game is held back by the engine limits of BF2 but it gives me more of a team feeling game than squad. Maybe it will wear off when i'm actually playing anything more than a rifleman but for now, i'll stick to it.

 

Squad has kept me busy for 1200+ hours but since v13 it's been going downhill for me :/.

 

If only more people opened their minds. If only more players took the time to do what you did...

 

My god we would have AN AMAZING GAME CALLED SQUAD. Because all the community would learn from 10 years of an experienced community and a game that received a lot of love and knowledge.

 

I think I´ve only played 3 hours in v13. Not special anymore. Still have hopes... mods, ONE LIFE, etc.

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17 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

 

If only more people opened their minds. If only more players took the time to do what you did...

 

My god we would have AN AMAZING GAME CALLED SQUAD. Because all the community would learn from 10 years of an experienced community and a game that received a lot of love and knowledge.

 

I think I´ve only played 3 hours in v13. Not special anymore. Still have hopes... mods, ONE LIFE, etc.

 

By all means, i'm not saying PR is perfect though. It's a certain niche game, squad is alot more beginner friendly (~) and meant for a broader audience.

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It sounds more and more like "beginner-friendly" in Squad is a synonym for "unpromoted and unrequired teamwork, arcade".

I heard this term for so long, but I don't think there's any clear explanation.
I've barely seen anyone having problem to play BF2:PR as a beginner compared to Squad, it's the same thing, you join squad, you ask questions, it's not rocket science, you can be effective from day-1 and nothing is secret.
How is Squad more "beginner-friendly" than BF2:PR exactly?

What's the reason to have teamwork? Mechanics, making you ineffective alone, unable to go rambo and required to communicate/cooperate/organize to have success. Squad is aiming to be more "frustration-free", meaning, whatever you do, you are not completely useless, i.e. even if you do it wrong, it's not punished, some called it rewarding failure.

You went rambo, died and have no one to revive you? Don't worry, respawn is in ~45 seconds in 100m from the fight.
You don't care about the squad and sticking together? Don't worry, most people you shoot at will give up anyway (respawning and keeping pressure is more important than reviving), and not having friends, making you successful even alone.
Your team can't build fobs, secure vehicles, keep the map control? Don't worry, buddy rally of 2-men squad and teleportation will bring you to any point of the map in a instant.
Your medic/squad doesn't know how to secure area before revive? Don't worry, there's no insta death, so you'll just act as a bullet sponge to spot the shooter and get revived again in 30 seconds.

In the same metric, modern COD/Battlefields are a lot more beginner friendly and meant for a broader audience. That's exactly the reason why people playing BF2:PR don't want to play them.

Edited by paragonid

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@paragonid Well, just an example.

 

  •  In Squad, if you need ammo, you get a nice wheel with options and same if you wanna switch kits (or you do it on respawn). In PR, it took me a while to find out that the button for sec. radio was also shared with the button to request a kit on a crate.   Same for the classes, some things you cannot spawn in as, need to requested on a crate..
  • The spawn map doesn't show movement of your squad, you need to open the squad map for it.
  • The stabilization mechanic on weapons.
  • ...

 

 

Edited by oTec

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1. "took awhile" - did you try asking? it will take 1 min to explain (you did in 1 sentence). I have to answer to people how to place radios, unload trucks, place ammo bags in squad all the time
2. Never been bothered by it, again, 1 minute to realize and never care about.
3. Weapon dispersing is indeed non-common mechanics, will take 1 min to explain though, in Squad for example I have to explain people all the time why they shouldn't switch kits on ammo crates, that they don't get ammo on the rally and how not to click switch kit 10 times in a row and remove 2k ammo from the fob all the time.

Now you are just describing game mechanics, it's obvious that "the less game mechanics there are, the more new player friendly the game is", so the most new player game friendly is tic tac toe.
BF2:PR and Squad have different mechanics in play, does BF2:PR have more of them? Wouldn't say that significantly. In any way, dumbing down mechanics to make game more accessible is exactly modern COD/BF way, and exactly why many are opposing to it

Edited by paragonid

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33 minutes ago, paragonid said:

1. "took awhile" - did you try asking? it will take 1 min to explain (you did in 1 sentence). I have to answer to people how to place radios, unload trucks, place ammo bags in squad all the time
2. Never been bothered by it, again, 1 minute to realize and never care about.
3. Weapon dispersing is indeed non-common mechanics, will take 1 min to explain though, in Squad for example I have to explain people all the time why they shouldn't switch kits on ammo crates, that they don't get ammo on the rally and how not to click switch kit 10 times in a row and remove 2k ammo from the fob all the time.

Now you are just describing game mechanics, it's obvious that "the less game mechanics there are, the more new player friendly the game is", so the most new player game friendly is tic tac toe.
BF2:PR and Squad have different mechanics in play, does BF2:PR have more of them? Wouldn't say that significantly. In any way, dumbing down mechanics to make game more accessible is exactly modern COD/BF way, and exactly why many are opposing to it

Go play PR then, squad isn’t a port

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@paragonid

 

Both have most of the same mechanics. In Squad they are merely a bit better integrated in the radial menu's and such.

Some things have been joined etc.

 

But once again, we're all fallen in the pit of comparing Squad to PR once more.

Edited by oTec

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9 hours ago, paragonid said:

It sounds more and more like "beginner-friendly" in Squad is a synonym for "unpromoted and unrequired teamwork, arcade".

I heard this term for so long, but I don't think there's any clear explanation.
I've barely seen anyone having problem to play BF2:PR as a beginner compared to Squad, it's the same thing, you join squad, you ask questions, it's not rocket science, you can be effective from day-1 and nothing is secret.
How is Squad more "beginner-friendly" than BF2:PR exactly?

What's the reason to have teamwork? Mechanics, making you ineffective alone, unable to go rambo and required to communicate/cooperate/organize to have success. Squad is aiming to be more "frustration-free", meaning, whatever you do, you are not completely useless, i.e. even if you do it wrong, it's not punished, some called it rewarding failure.

You went rambo, died and have no one to revive you? Don't worry, respawn is in ~45 seconds in 100m from the fight.
You don't care about the squad and sticking together? Don't worry, most people you shoot at will give up anyway (respawning and keeping pressure is more important than reviving), and not having friends, making you successful even alone.
Your team can't build fobs, secure vehicles, keep the map control? Don't worry, buddy rally of 2-men squad and teleportation will bring you to any point of the map in a instant.
Your medic/squad doesn't know how to secure area before revive? Don't worry, there's no insta death, so you'll just act as a bullet sponge to spot the shooter and get revived again in 30 seconds.

In the same metric, modern COD/Battlefields are a lot more beginner friendly and meant for a broader audience. That's exactly the reason why people playing BF2:PR don't want to play them.

So accurate. So well laid down.

 

5 hours ago, oTec said:

But once again, we're all fallen in the pit of comparing Squad to PR once more.

Someone borught it up for no apparent reason.

 I asked up there. But there was no explanation.

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19 hours ago, Thegreenzzz said:

Go play PR then, squad isn’t a port


Go write on the walls then, you have no ability to bring anything useful in the discussion

Comparison is pretty much only way I know to base an opinion about the subject. No one else has suggested any other method so far.

Squad is claimed successor of BF2:PR (comparison)
Classic is a something related to current  (comparison)
"New player friendliness" inevitable came into mentioning UI, and game mechanics (and comparison between games)

Edited by paragonid

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oh yeah...

so predictable...

 

 

...first the old canned "no, but we have a vibrant modding community" response.

 

Oh really? You mean the custom server browser that has only like 20 people in the entire world playing right now and they're actually just private scrimming regular vanilla maps? That vibrant modding community? The vibrant modding community that's made all kinds of content that's gathering dust on some shelf because nobody's interested in goofy Sci-fi asset swaps? Ok, sure.

 

...oh, and then what about the inevitable tired "but what about muh Project Reality" cow manure desperate plea for attention wedged into every single discussion like always? So predictable. Over here! Look at me! Remember me? I'm Project Reality Albatross still hanging from your neck! Exaltation please!

 

Face it, this game has essentially thrown the baby out with bathwater. It's been in development way too long and during that journey has managed to become a bloated vapid version of what made the original game unique and interesting before the inclusion of vehicles. Choppers won't fix it either.

 

Furthermore, now it's becoming just another lackluster fps game where the actual game development process has become too closely linked to social media Discord/Reddit drama queen festivals with the "community" which has effectively tainted the entire process. At this point deleting the official Discord channel and Reddit page would be an extremely beneficial step in completing the game as it seems to be a real distraction especially to us on the periphery who are merely observers of the grade school drama interactions.

 

My whole point was/is that Squad is rapidly losing all of the features and attributes that made the game I bought nearly four years ago on a whim unique. The original first versions of the game had an immersive quality that has been essentially bleached out of the game. Heck, let's just focus on one specific topic and that's the quality of the textures. Back then the game used to look great with 4k textures on everything. Now it looks like a cartoon world. The whole game has actually become a meme of itself.

 

So yeah, I'm serious. If there was a split in the development team that went off seperately and remade a completely different version of the original game, a serious back to basics, infantry only, large scale maps and cinematic textures I'd buy it and I think other folks would too.

 

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9 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

 

My whole point was/is that Squad is rapidly losing all of the features and attributes that made the game I bought nearly four years ago on a whim unique. The original first versions of the game had an immersive quality that has been essentially bleached out of the game. Heck, let's just focus on one specific topic and that's the quality of the textures. Back then the game used to look great with 4k textures on everything. Now it looks like a cartoon world. The whole game has actually become a meme of itself.

 

So yeah, I'm serious. If there was a split in the development team that went off seperately and remade a completely different version of the original game, a serious back to basics, infantry only, large scale maps and cinematic textures I'd buy it and I think other folks would too.

 

Oh!,,,so now Squad is not UNIQUE anymore?

 

Now you want something different tan the vanilla?

 

You dont like the direction the game took?

 

Oh,... ok. Well, I could copy paste all of your messages from the past 5 months here to respond with your own comments. 

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On 9/14/2019 at 2:30 PM, Nightingale87 said:

Oh!,,,so now Squad is not UNIQUE anymore?

 

Now you want something different tan the vanilla?

 

You dont like the direction the game took?

 

Oh,... ok. Well, I could copy paste all of your messages from the past 5 months here to respond with your own comments. 

Certainly you could go back and cherry pick individual statements and portions of statements I've made without all the surrounding contextual sentences and then twist it into some type of contradictory narrative. By all means have at it, the English language is great for such things.

 

Fact is, all along the timeline my constructive criticisms of the game have been pretty consistent over the years although I've evolved on a few issues here and there. However, interestingly enough many of my predictions and narratives have been spot on.

 

The unique elements that the game had from the beginning still exist however they are heavily masked by a game development process that is trying to satisfy three different demographics, casual, competitive and of course the core PR founders. Not only that the development team got way too close and "chummy" with the community which in my opinion spoiled the sequestered creative process.

 

As we've all consistently seen now these three sub-genres not only don't dovetail well they've actually created an oddball juxtaposition that is constantly at war with itself. The only thing that Squad has consistently done well is show negative growth and drive new people away kicking & screaming to other games for a whole plethora of reasons.

 

That said Nightingale, I would mostly agree that the majority of you and the rest of the PR founder's did kind of get the bait-and-switch treatment however I think every single one of you being reasonably intelligent adults had to of course realized that a tiny niche mod couldn't be cloned into a for profit game and not be something different.

 

But say for example you did get Project Reality 2 cloned in all its majestic magnificence? Do you actually think it would have been a sustainable business model without official servers for a consistent vanilla experience? I severely doubt it. The game has only survived thus far by ping ponging back and forth between patches that placate one community and infuriate another.

 

The funny thing is you're forgetting Boomer's like me have seen this same scenario repeat itself multiple times. All it will take is a better game to come along that somewhat fills the niche and you'll see an cascading exponential playership failure and eventually the master authentication server plug will get pulled. You can't stop progress buddy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Zylfrax791

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4 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

But say for example you did get Project Reality 2 cloned in all its majestic magnificence? Do you actually think it would have been a sustainable business model without official servers for a consistent vanilla experience? I severely doubt it. The game has only survived thus far by ping ponging back and forth between patches that placate one community and infuriate another.

Of course not! At least not to a large extent. But most people never claimed that. All people were/are asking for is one of these…:

 

1- Another GAME MODE.

2- Capability of Servers to change setting something like : Buddy rally ON/OFF, Insta death ON/OFF, respawn timer 30 sec, 45 sec, 1 minute, or CUMMULATIVE. And so on and on….many options.

3- Chance to mod the game.

 

All that was given is the chance to mod the game. I´ll settle for that. All I want to play now are one life events. The vanilla game is not for me at the momento (hasn´t been since v13 came out)

 

5 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

The funny thing is you're forgetting Boomer's like me have seen this same scenario repeat itself multiple times. All it will take is a better game to come along that somewhat fills the niche and you'll see an cascading exponential playership failure and eventually the master authentication server plug will get pulled. You can't stop progress buddy.

I completely agree. 

 

Im optimistic anyway, because in the mist of thousands of game, one happy day, I ran into PR. And I´ve never stopped loving it ever since. So there are enough of people who want to experience another kind of gameplay out there, and PR is the proof of it. Now with SQUAD as a base, that can happen again just with updated graphics. I also think that when proactive consumers don´t get what they are asking for, they, given the time, Will créate it themselves.

 

It´s a shame you´ve never played PR. You would understand a lot of out points of view much better.

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On 9/15/2019 at 1:21 PM, Nightingale87 said:

So there are enough of people who want to experience another kind of gameplay out there, and PR is the proof of it. Now with SQUAD as a base, that can happen again just with updated graphics. I also think that when proactive consumers don´t get what they are asking for, they, given the time, Will créate it themselves.

Certainly I would agree. The law of supply and demand always wins. That said, you guys would probably have better luck making a Project Reality clone mod in ARMA 3 because the entire combined arms framework is already in place with AAS and Domination game modes available. Plus the ARMA 3 community seems to be much more interested in serious tactical gameplay.

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4 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Certainly I would agree. The law of supply and demand always wins. That said, you guys would probably have better luck making a Project Reality clone mod in ARMA 3 because the entire combined arms framework is already in place with AAS and Domination game modes available. Plus the ARMA 3 community seems to be much more interested in serious tactical gameplay.

There was a huge attempt to mod ARMA 2 many years ago. And the modding with that engine was awful. It was discarded. BF´s engine was perfect for modding. SQUAD seems to be a good option.

 

Besides what the ARMA community is interested in is not what PR delivered.

Edited by Nightingale87

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23 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

There was a huge attempt to mod ARMA 2 many years ago. And the modding with that engine was awful. It was discarded. BF´s engine was perfect for modding. SQUAD seems to be a good option.

 

Besides what the ARMA community is interested in is not what PR delivered.

Politely you're incorrect. All kinds of people in the founders list have recent ARMA3 videos on YouTube including but not limited to bluedrake.

Edited by Zylfrax791

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