Jump to content
zelatur

Gameplay Chaos (FOB's)

Recommended Posts

Hi. Many times i see people placing FOBs in bad location or not placing them at all, even if we have 3 flags to capture first people already rush to the last one and place FOB in some cheeky position, sometimes it works but most of the time it doesnt... I dont know how many times ive seen scenario when winning team keep capturing the flag after flag going for victory when losing team keep respawning in some useless locations at the flag that is Locked because there is no other FOBs to use... yes some respawn in Main Base and will try to defend the first flag but most of the people will keep respawning in old FOBs and the gameplay becomes messy... I also see a lot of times Squads being in some useless positions at the end of the maps trying to outflank entire server, instead of actually playing objectives, defending or attacking flags... not sure where exactly is the problem but it would be nice if players would stick to the plan and also it would be nice to be able to respawn in some better localization... I think the game depends too much on players actions, leaving them full control over respawning locations, i think it would be good idea to make Spawns available on Fully Captured Flags until there isnt an enemy close to it, that could give players options to effectively go back to objectives and have better chance to defend it and overall get back in action, FOBs could still be an option. It also could be more clear what current objectives are, even Experienced players tend to not notice that the flag theyre attacking is locked because enemy already captured the next one, players should be aware more whats going on, the whole gameplay experience would be just better if players would stick to the objectives of the map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, zelatur said:

"TLDR"

 

Yes, this is indeed what you see in Squad, can't argue with that.

If a SL doesn't realize he's doing something useless or doesn't keep an eye on the people in the squad, you'll get things like you describe.

But enabling spawning on flags would just remove the need for FOB's completely. Rallies are already way better and flexible than FOB's.

 

31 minutes ago, zelatur said:

the whole gameplay experience would be just better if players would stick to the objectives of the map.

 

All going to depend on the squad leaders in the server. In Squad, if you make a mistake, you pay in cash.

Atleast it used to be like this, untill they added buddy rally...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, zelatur said:

...i think it would be good idea to make Spawns available on Fully Captured Flags until there isnt an enemy close to it, that could give players options to effectively go back to objectives and have better chance to defend it and overall get back in action, FOBs could still be an option.

That's a great idea in theory however it simply just reverts the AAS game mode back to Joint Operations PSP (progressive spawn points) which promotes stale repetitive gameplay not unlike Squad was before the HAB override feature was implemented.

 

Typically flags are lost because nobody is interested in defending which is why my idea of making defense flags go neutral unless a full 9 player squad stays in the capture zone until the next flag is captured would force compliance. So even if there isn't a single enemy in the defense flag you would start to lose the flag right away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Typically flags are lost because nobody is interested in defending which is why my idea of making defense flags go neutral unless a full 9 player squad stays in the capture zone until the next flag is captured would force compliance. So even if there isn't a single enemy in the defense flag you would start to lose the flag right away.

That's probably the best idea I've heard in a long while.

 

If you don't defend with at least 1 squad - bam, flag goes neutral, you can't capture the next one. Thank you for playing. You can't remain in control of a flag by staying on it for an arbitrary period of time and moving on afterwards, you need to actually hold the area. Brilliant, simple and immersive all at the same time.

 

I think you just solved about 30% of all problems with Squad right there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it should be 6 man in the cap, some times you need observers around the cap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

If you don't defend with at least 1 squad - bam, flag goes neutral, you can't capture the next one. Thank you for playing. You can't remain in control of a flag by staying on it for an arbitrary period of time and moving on afterwards, you need to actually hold the area. Brilliant, simple and immersive all at the same time.

 

I think you just solved about 30% of all problems with Squad right there.

 

Oh God! Please NO!....

 

If people aren´t Smart enough to just stay and defend the flag let them lose it!...

 

This would be the ultimate "dumb the game down" so people can play… 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Nightingale87 said:

 

Oh God! Please NO!....

 

If people aren´t Smart enough to just stay and defend the flag let them lose it!...

 

This would be the ultimate "dumb the game down" so people can play… 

I wouldn't consider it "dumbing it down" but instead "smartelligent programming"...

 

Think about it for a second. How is it that little kids can understand TF2 Control Point game modes and yet in the typical pubbie Squad match 99.9% of the time as soon as a flag is captured everyone bails quicker than a one night stand with Lindsay Lohan?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a game for adults, not kids who play TF2.  If everyone is bailing, you need to be the SL who holds their squad back.

 

Also:

 

1. Shooting 1 man of the defending squad would be enough to force it neutral, requiring at least two squads on a point that's actually contested.

 

2. The game becomes a series of tiny-map bloodbaths because boots-on-point is the only strategy that works. No reason to have large maps at all.

 

3. Progress on low population servers becomes impossible.

 

4. If the enemy has not dedicated any troops to attacking your point, then one squad simply doesn't get to participate in the game for an indefinite amount of time.

 

5. It's insulting to squad leaders who do put in the effort to maneuver and allocate troops effectively.  There's no reward to being clever if being dumb is prevented entirely.

 

6. AAS is lame anyway and everyone should play Territory Control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Skidborg said:

1. Shooting 1 man of the defending squad would be enough to force it neutral, requiring at least two squads on a point that's actually contested.

Well certainly there could be some flexibility in the number of sentries that would need to defend a flag. Perhaps 3 would make more sense so a full squad of 9 would defend.

 

 

5 hours ago, Skidborg said:

 

2. The game becomes a series of tiny-map bloodbaths because boots-on-point is the only strategy that works. No reason to have large maps at all.

But boots in the point is the only strategy that has ever worked and AAS has always been glorified TDM with most players scattered across the map anyway. And honestly on the bigger maps large portions of the maps aren't really used but that's a whole other point.

5 hours ago, Skidborg said:

 

3. Progress on low population servers becomes impossible.

Every server I've ever played fights over the central flag until it's 20v20 anyway so that's kind of a moot point.

 

5 hours ago, Skidborg said:

 

4. If the enemy has not dedicated any troops to attacking your point, then one squad simply doesn't get to participate in the game for an indefinite amount of time.

How is that any different than the way things are now? Currently the last players in the flag might stick around for 5 minutes or so but then they bail. Now it's compulsory to stay.

5 hours ago, Skidborg said:

 

5. It's insulting to squad leaders who do put in the effort to maneuver and allocate troops effectively.  There's no reward to being clever if being dumb is prevented entirely.

Not really if you think about it the other team has to do the same thing as well so it's balanced. All my idea does is get all these feral gents that scatter across the map every match back on point.

 

 

5 hours ago, Skidborg said:

 

6. AAS is lame anyway and everyone should play Territory Control.

 

AAS is the meat & potatoes of the game and probably accounts for around 95% of the entire daily gameplay so I think an overwhelming amount of the community would disagree. Not to diminish TC or any of the game modes but people simply prefer AAS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎07‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 7:36 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

I wouldn't consider it "dumbing it down" but instead "smartelligent programming"...

 

Think about it for a second. How is it that little kids can understand TF2 Control Point game modes and yet in the typical pubbie Squad match 99.9% of the time as soon as a flag is captured everyone bails quicker than a one night stand with Lindsay Lohan?

So currently the problem is that people don´t stay to defend the flag…. because they don´t want to stay and defend the flag...

 

how will that change?  If people don´t want to defend they will just leave and attack. Why would that change?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

So currently the problem is that people don´t stay to defend the flag…. because they don´t want to stay and defend the flag...

 

how will that change?  If people don´t want to defend they will just leave and attack. Why would that change?

Because without the sentries in the defense flag it will go neutral in 2 minutes and the attack flag icon will simply disappear from the map. Left without an attack flag the lemmings will return.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Because without the sentries in the defense flag it will go neutral in 2 minutes and the attack flag icon will simply disappear from the map. Left without an attack flag the lemmings will return.

People leave the flag because they don´t want to defend, not because they don´t know it´s a bad idea. 

 

So...

 

If people don´t want to defend, they just won´t defend, and you will have the meta of everyone rughing away from the flag on to the next one trying to be the first one to leave so only the last teammates are charged with the responsibility of doing it because "they are still there/ they were the last to leave"....

 

And even then, if those guys don´t want to defend, they will just leave. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If your defense point is sparsely populated it could be because the other point has the full populations of both teams in locked horns. In that situation it's not always as dangerous as it seems because if the enemy team breaks off to attack they'll become vulnerable to double neutral, which will be advantageous if you are able to take down a FOB in the process

 

There's no simple answer on how to play Squad's AAS. It's a weird game.

 

edit: Or even if you don't get double neutral it's still a good position. This is where people freak out at you for fighting over "useless points" but the truth is if you play for FOBs, the caps will come naturally

Edited by Good-Try Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you think about it the RAAS mode that OWI has hand crafted is completely unique within the FPS genre. That said, within that paradigm my point is that a vast portion of the player base is used to playing games with non-stop action so when it comes to standing guard over a defense flag people become restless.

 

Needless to say there needs to be some type of built in mechanic that keeps players engaged on the defense flag. So perhaps if the flag going neutral doesn't sound compelling enough then maybe  there could be a specific task such as building a premade structure of some type such as as crucial bridge, fortification or communications array. Or even better how about there are several damaged vehicles on the flag that need to be completely repaired before use instead of having new pristine vehicles in main?

 


Whilst it was more in the Sci-fi genre the game mode in ET:QW was basically very similar to Squad's Invasion mode except each objective required a specific role to complete and the rest of your team took on a variety of roles that then supported that goal. So for example on Valley first you had to build the bridge which required an Engineer. Of course the more Engineer's you had running up to the bridge with their pliers the better but you also had to have the other roles fighting off the Strogg that were trying to kill the Engineer's.

 

So once the bridge got built then the big armored MPC would drop and you had to drive it over the bridge and through the tunnel. Anyone could drive it but only an Engineer could repair it so you'd have to cover the Engineer's kind of like covering a crewman ib Squad repairing his vehicle. Once the MPC reached its destination then the other role called Covert Ops had to hack the shield generator and afterwards the last objective required the Soldier to plant a shape charge to blow up the "Stroggifier".

 

As boring and long winded as that description is my overall point is that in ET:QW it was an team based objective focused game similar to Squad where everyone understood what their specific role was and how to utilize them to with the match. On the other hand, in Squad a lot of players are clueless as to what they need to do and tend to lack a specific purpose not because its their fault really its simply a fact that the game gives players way too much freedom and very little specific tasking.

 

Stealing a paraphrased quote from a player named backpack "Squad is basically a TDM with side quests"...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Good-Try Greg said:

There's no simple answer on how to play Squad's AAS. It's a weird game.

Squad's AAS implimentation has been a broken toy from day one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×