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Zylfrax791

Camping Main

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This is getting so old. Now we've got admins and moderators determining "intent" when a player was over a full kilometer from a Main Base past the first flag shooting enemy vehicles on an MSR as "Main Camping" and yet on another server the admins themselves and their cronies are plopping down the yellow friendly FOB marker on the enemies main and then lining up armor on the very edge of the line and shooting fish in a barrel and somehow this isn't intent... wut?

 

As everyone knows the game has always had a built-in denial system protecting the main bases and a few patches ago it was even further enhanced with an increased radius and lethality. That said, you'd think after all that programming the issue would be completely resolved and the built-in game mechanic would fully protect the Main Bases.

 

Needless to say, that's not the case though. If anything Main Base camping has steadily gotten worse and worse. And also it doesn't help that every single server seems to have a different set of subjective and arbitrary rules that they seemingly invent as they go such as half the distance from the first flag, 300 meters from Main or camping only allowed on Sundays with a full moon.

 

This is an ongoing issue that needs another look and a programming change that gives the game consistency across the board for both players and admin.

 

I mean what's going to happen once choppers hit the game? These silly superfluous rules about half the distance from the first flag or 300 meters from the Main Base aren't going to mean diddley squat with a chopper having an elevated position and extreme maneuverability now are they?

 

Please fix this problem once and for all and make it part of the licensing agreement like squad leaders can kick for any reason so it brings a certain measure of consistency to the game.

 

 

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"Main camping" should never be an offence, period, if you or your team can't secure the perimeter of your deployment you should be punished accordingly.

 

This is a non-problem, or the actual "problem" is servers that have rules against main camping.

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2 hours ago, Marco said:

"Main camping" should never be an offence, period, if you or your team can't secure the perimeter of your deployment you should be punished accordingly.

 

This is a non-problem, or the actual "problem" is servers that have rules against main camping.

My point exactly. I personally don't have an opinion about whether or not it's a legitimate strategy or tactic or not. My only position is that the game mechanic itself should make the final determination regarding gameplay not some half baked nebulous rules.

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3 hours ago, Marco said:

"Main camping" should never be an offence, period, if you or your team can't secure the perimeter of your deployment you should be punished accordingly.

 

This is a non-problem, or the actual "problem" is servers that have rules against main camping.

 

People laying mines in front of opponent main base should be punished accordingly because that's "Main camping" as well.

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1 hour ago, Phoenixstorm said:

People laying mines in front of opponent main base should be punished accordingly because that's "Main camping" as well.

There are three areas in any map; two protected main bases and then the playable area. Anything the game allows should be permitted to occur within the playable area regardless of whether you or I like it or not or even consider it a valid strategy or tactic.

 

 

 

 

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It's still a game and some ppl play tournaments on a competition level, balance and fair play should be the foundation.

Other said it's kind of a sim and war isn't fair, now it's the question which way we want to play.

 

We could play dirty by camping the main with mines/at so no supply's can be delivered, or alternatively, just make sure they can't cap their first flag.

Both ways are very effective and the mine one is pretty much a passive form of fire and forget (low-risk high reward) but do we really want that kind of playstyle as meta?

 

 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Phoenixstorm said:

It's still a game and some ppl play tournaments on a competition level, balance and fair play should be the foundation.

Other said it's kind of a sim and war isn't fair, now it's the question which way we want to play.

 

We could play dirty by camping the main with mines/at so no supply's can be delivered, or alternatively, just make sure they can't cap their first flag.

Both ways are very effective and the mine one is pretty much a passive form of fire and forget (low-risk high reward) but do we really want that kind of playstyle as meta?

 

 

 

 

How you or I feel the game should be played is irrelevant though. The Main Bases already have protection and there shouldn't be a need for additional rules above and beyond that otherwise you're basically questioning the intent and competence of the development team wouldn't you agree?

 

I mean consider it from that perspective. If you're a private server and you feel the need to create an entire new set of supplemental rules aren't you essentially saying that the game is inadequately programmed and you with your superior knowledge and intelligence above and beyond the development team need to "fix" it for them?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Anything the game allows should be permitted to occur within the playable area regardless of whether you or I like it or not or even consider it a valid strategy or tactic.

 

10 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I mean consider it from that perspective. If you're a private server and you feel the need to create an entire new set of supplemental rules aren't you essentially saying that the game is inadequately programmed and you with your superior knowledge and intelligence above and beyond the development team need to "fix" it for them?

So by those statements, If I get glitched(ie the games allows it) into the ground or a building and is able to kill the enemy from within then servers should not put up rules against it since the game isnt adequately programmed and and its the devs need to fix it, not the server rules?

 

Same thing could be said of cheat software. If the game does not detect it, then its fine...Your logic isnt.

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Posted (edited)

I do agree that main base protection against mines and stuff should be developed a bit more. But right now it isn't so these server rules are simply nessecary imo. Had a match on Fool's Road one time, and they mined both bridges out of our main base, and camped waiting to shoot anyone trying to dig them up. This simply caused half our team to leave, and created one of the least fun matches i've ever played in any game. Afterwards i don't remember ever joining that server again, since they simply allowed it.

I get it on maps like Talil, where you can just go anywhere from main base, the road is not a nessecity to take, but on maps like Fool's Road, it's a completely different story.

 

In the end Squad is meant to be fun, and server rules should make up for what the game lacks. This is fine for me, since everybody has different ideas of what rules are good and bad, so they can simply join the server where they think the game is played correctly.

Edited by Guan_Yu007

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1 hour ago, Jevski said:

 

So by those statements, If I get glitched(ie the games allows it) into the ground or a building and is able to kill the enemy from within then servers should not put up rules against it since the game isnt adequately programmed and and its the devs need to fix it, not the server rules?

 

Same thing could be said of cheat software. If the game does not detect it, then its fine...Your logic isnt.

As adults I think everyone understands that I'm referring to the intended playable attributes of the game and not exploits, glitching, cheating or 3rd party hacks. Making the condescending inference that I was referring to those issues simply trivializes your point as everyone understands the distinction between the intentions of the game programming and those completely separate issues.

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Posted (edited)

to be fair, there are server that have rules against camping the main and others dont. i myself have several times been blown up outside the safezone and im fine with that. its my own fault for not securing or checking if its safe or not to leave. just avoid the roads or make sure you have the area secure before wandering further into the map. its a tactical shooter. so expect the unexpected.

Edited by zarenx

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what @zarenx said ^

 

(my reference here is JointOps): base camping was never more than a temporary annoyance. we never had protection zones but we did, mostly, have various options for exiting (multiple road, water, air options; map-dependant ofc).

we would have peeps camping inside the zone, stealing vehicles, hiding expolsives - generally causing mischief. this was never "commonplace" as the vast majority of the community never did such things but some peanuts couldn't help themselves. instances were usually stomped on hard, mostly but not always, by the next peep to spawn, who would hunt down and clear that miscreant and any surprises that left - we wouldn't whinge about the camping, we'd deal with it.

 

my advice would be that if Main is being compromised in any way, that players make the effort to clear it and any enemies - if someone gets dead 5 times in a row because they get spotted trying to mine in front of Main, they will eventually give up, i would suggest.

 

 

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I think there should be no hard stop (magical barrier) just increasing visibility of enemy as they get closer to main up to a point where simulated systems start shooting at intruders. Could simulate infrequent UAV, simulated guard posts, guard dogs. All this should be removed or reduced when the final flag is down for a full base assault.

 

Camping supply routes is part of the game.

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15 minutes ago, suds said:

I think there should be no hard stop (magical barrier) just increasing visibility of enemy as they get closer to main up to a point where simulated systems start shooting at intruders. Could simulate infrequent UAV, simulated guard posts, guard dogs. All this should be removed or reduced when the final flag is down for a full base assault.

 

Camping supply routes is part of the game.

Yeah, this an idea I had before but everyone shot it down because they somehow classified it as A.I. strangely enough.

 

I've mentioned this before but the G.D.F. faction and the overall AAS gameplay of Enemy Territory: Quake Wars shared a lot of similarities to Squad in that it was a team oriented objective based game and the G.D.F. roles were almost identical. That said, it had a very efficient and effective Main Base protection system that utilized an automated turret that would cut you to ribbons. In addition, all the maps in ET:QW were 1 kilometer square and each faction had a single aerial asset; Anansi for the G.D.F. and the Tormentor for the Strogg and the system worked completely fine without any need for oversight.

 

In fact, the entire game was completely stand alone and required zero administration so Squad could eventually be programmed this way as well.

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To me this issue stems from the style of game modes currently available in Squad. Action is focused on middle objectives with little incentive to harass or protect supply lines (including MSR from Main). Rallies and HABs allow the majority of action on the map to continue without consideration for supply lines, aside from the initial logi.

 

I've been toying with the idea of an RTS-style game mode where the objective is to cap/destroy the enemy Main: No protection zone, limited resources at Main (supply, ammo) with regeneration. Capping zones on the map gives more resource regeneration at Main. Supply and ammo can be spent on vehicles at Main. No ticket limit; victory is achieved by taking the map and finally steamrolling the enemy off their stronghold. Removing rallies and limiting HABs with ammo requirements to spawn is likely also in order. Spawns and resource movement from Main would create a more even spread of players and assets over the map, with higher concentrations at Main for the losing side as they are pushed back. This would make Main camping more difficult, but also more rewarding as more assets are dedicated to Main and MSR protection.

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