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I've been playing PR for since 2010, always getting pulled back to the game..

After confusing everyone around me by stabbing an enemy FOB's radio repeatedly to no result I realised it might've been too long, so yeah I bought the game.

I would appreciate it if some of you (especially PR vets) could answer..

 

1. PR walked on a fine line between immersion (realism) and fun. How does it compare to squad on that scale?

 

2. Does squad intend to be anything more than a spiritual successor? What am I to expectfor the first time playing, differently than a round of PR?

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Posted (edited)

Squad is not comparable to PR. You will find that the game is extremely fast with barely any room to breathe or formulate a strategy, the mechanics are much more forgiving and in many aspects illogical, the gunplay is easier and simplified - every engagement is over in seconds. The fights are condensed into much smaller areas thanks to the spawning mechanics, so you will pretty much spawn right into combat most of the time. The sounds are good, however. You will feel like you are on a real battlefield, right until the moment when people around you start cheesing the many exploitable mechanics to get an advantage, then the immersion is gone again. 

 

What OWI intend with Squad is a subject of many debates, honestly nobody really knows and all you'll get from devs is vague. What you definitely should expect to find in your first round is a bunch of casual players whom are bound to play the game like it was Battlefield, with nary a tactical thought in their head, no notion of teamwork unless it benefits themselves. You'll spawn, you'll run, you'll gun, rinse and repeat. Don't expect much in terms of cooperation with other players, other than you will all run in the same direction before you get slaughtered.

 

As a PR vet talking to another PR vet I can wholeheartedly give Squad my personal Seal of Disapproval (trademark pending) 

Edited by MultiSquid

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55 minutes ago, MultiSquid said:

Squad is not comparable to PR. You will find that the game is extremely fast with barely any room to breathe or formulate a strategy, the mechanics are much more forgiving and in many aspects illogical, the gunplay is easier and simplified. The fights are condensed into much smaller areas thanks to the spawning mechanics, so you will pretty much spawn right into combat most of the time. The sounds are good, however. You will feel like you are on a real battlefield, right until the moment when people around you start cheesing the many exploitable mechanics to get an advantage. 

 

What OWI intend with Squad is a subject of many debates, honestly nobody really knows and all you'll get from devs is vague. What you definitely should expect to find in your first round is a bunch of casual players whom are bound to play the game like it was Battlefield, with nary a tactical thought in their head, no notion of teamwork unless it benefits themselves. You'll spawn, you'll run, you'll gun, rinse and repeat. Don't expect much in terms of cooperation with other players, other than you will all run in the same direction before you get slaughtered.

 

As a PR vet talking to another PR vet I can wholeheartedly give Squad my personal Seal of Disapproval (trademark pending) 

i totaly agree with you squid, there was allot of hope for the game. i just feel lied to by OWI. the only thing im waiting for now is a PR mod to be made.

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1 hour ago, zarenx said:

i totaly agree with you squid, there was allot of hope for the game. i just feel lied to by OWI. the only thing im waiting for now is a PR mod to be made.

Check out Athena.

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PR vet here, since 2006

forget Squad at its current state, it looks more like battlefield than anything else

the only thing that will save this game is a mod, or if they introduce a gamemode completely different from the ones we have now

 

I am almost uninstalling squad.... not much time to play plus dont enjoy it anymore, so why play it? I'd rather play something else

 

just waiting V16 drop, if nothing changes, I will uninstall it... but my expectations are low at this point

 

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Damn, thanks guys, I really appreciate the honesty. Now that I know what to expect I guess I'll see for myself

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46 minutes ago, Cedrus said:

Damn, thanks guys, I really appreciate the honesty. Now that I know what to expect I guess I'll see for myself

Ignore the hate from the people that are butt hurt over the direction the devs went.  Most of the changes are very nice. A few were questionable, but you can't fault them for wanting to test some tweaks out. The questionable ones have already been addressed by the devs. The ones that don't like the game will stand out because they'll constantly call people enjoying the game casuals. There is more of a noticeable skill spectrum in squad than pr, so my guess is these are the people that needed game mechanics in place to flatten out the spectrum (aka newbs).

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It shouldn't be lost on people that the a lot of teamwork comes from Squads with relatively new players, or players who haven't played in a long time, basically players who are more likely to appreciate a guiding hand. I've been playing the game too long to ever buy into the idea that Squad's playerbase simply hasn't "grown into" more tactical playstyles. SLing in Squad is definitely more "hands off" than PR, but really, one of the most stressful parts of SLing in Squad is having to cater to many different kinds of players with different needs.

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Posted (edited)

It also depends very much on the server and players. Join a server where no one communicates or just play run and gun, then yes, squad will feel like a COD clone but so will PR. Play on a great server with competent squad leaders, and the game will feel very different.

 I usually play on Tactical Gamer, and I rarely find above mentioned kind of play there.

Edited by Jevski

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I think it's pretty safe to say that PR could never play like Call of Duty. A dysfunctional Squad in PR would just be dead weight. On the other hand, a dysfunctional Squad in Squad, just spawning out of FOBs alone, might well be the highest killing Squad at the end of the match.

 

If Squad tactics was truly the most powerful thing in the game, then I think the playerbase would adopt it very quickly. PR is proof of that. Back in like the v9 days we used to have a lot more PR veterans attemping to SL in the classic tight, cohesive PR fashion. It never really fit. They either gave up on that style of SLing in exchange for something more effective or maybe gave up on the game entirely.

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I've only played a mere 6hours of PR (tried it out after getting squad, didn't know it existed till someone told me ingame).

It's true that there is less teamwork. You won't find people running logistics or transport squads as much as in PR, getting a ride to the next cap isn't always easy (In PR people just offered or SL radio'd a heli for a pickup sometimes). Some people don't talk in SL comms and refuse/don't know what the obj is or sit on an unactive one.

There isn't as much variation in maps/armies/vehicles and some maps are tilted heavily to one side. (Al Bashrah AAS(??) Militia vs Insurgent is a fine example).

 

But the playerbase of squad is just not as seasoned as the PR one. Most people will play infantry, take a logi and go.

Back in older versions where the 30mm reigned supreme, it was a valid tactic to just leave your strykers in main. Stuff like that doesn't really add to combined arms.

Even now, i see games where only the trucks are being used and a single mrap. People seem to often limit themselves to infantry. 

And if they don't, vehicles tend to operate seperated from the infantry.

 

But squad is a game under construction and they're building. Some things get fixed, others are not considered urgent by the devs and others problems are created due to new versions. (Shit hit reg during v13-v14 and still somewhat present today but alot less).

 

But the teamwork is there, albeit on a more basic level than PR. It's harder to get a point across because alot of people are new or are just reluctant to learn. But others are great to play with, it's a mixed bag atm.

 

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10 hours ago, oTec said:

You won't find people running logistics or transport squads as much as in PR, getting a ride to the next cap isn't always easy

I often see logi squad, and have Apc's provide transport and fire support

 

 

11 hours ago, oTec said:

Some people don't talk in SL comms and refuse/don't know what the obj is or sit on an unactive one.

Has little to do with the game, but with people. All the tools to communicate and how to play are there. You can hardly blame the game for human stupidity.

 

 

11 hours ago, oTec said:

Even now, i see games where only the trucks are being used and a single mrap. People seem to often limit themselves to infantry. 

And if they don't, vehicles tend to operate separated from the infantry.

Ive never seen that. Again it has nothing to do with the game, but how people play. You cant lead a soldier to a tank so to speak.

 

 

11 hours ago, oTec said:

But the teamwork is there, albeit on a more basic level than PR. It's harder to get a point across because alot of people are new or are just reluctant to learn. But others are great to play with, it's a mixed bag atm.

 

Again depends on the server. Squad has given players more tools to work with than PR had More markers, arrows, fireteams.

 

If players are ignorant of these or chose not to utilize them, how is that the games fault?

 

 

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Wether the game is enough like PR or not, at this moment it is one of my favourite games of all time. I backed the game when i played PR, and at this moment i've basically moved on from PR to Squad. Now, this game is not perfect, not by a long way, there is a lot that needs to be fixed, added, removed, tweaked etc..... But overall, i really love it. I didn't exactly have a good experience with the people in PR last time i played it either, they basically instantly disliked me because i do in fact like Squad... So yeah, a lot of elitism there, and i'm with the PRTA community lol.

 

Anyways @Cedrus just try the game out, your experience will wildly vary from time to time, it mostly depends on the servers you choose to play on.

Tactical Gamer and SquadOps are really good overall afaik, PRTA when seeded is always good to join, and there are some clan servers that often give you a good experience. But, you will have a bad experience from time to time, it's the nature of a game where teamwork wins.

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Jevski said:

If players are ignorant of these or chose not to utilize them, how is that the games fault?

Simplified and forgiving game mechanics is not incentivizing the use of any of it?

Edited by rincewind

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11 hours ago, Jevski said:

TL:DR

 

 

It's not the game's fault, never said that.

As i said, people are just not all vets with alot of hours in comparison with PR.

PR has just been around alot longer and has alot of people comitted to playing it.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/6/2019 at 10:36 AM, oTec said:

It's not the game's fault, never said that.

As i said, people are just not all vets with alot of hours in comparison with PR.

PR has just been around alot longer and has alot of people comitted to playing it.

Well then hop in to BF3 or BC2 for example. It has been around for long enough, and it's obsolete so there's only some "dedicated fans" left. Still plays the same. It's always the game's fault, people just play the most effective and easiest way.

Edited by rincewind

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, rincewind said:

Well then hop in to BF3 or BC2 for example. It has been around for long enough, and it's obsolete so there's only some "dedicated fans" left. Still plays the same. It's always the game's fault, people just play the most effective and easiest way.

 

Can't really compare BF to Squad though. The fact that people made a Project Reality mod already says enough.

 

If people are too lazy to communicate and work together, it has a great impact on your team in Squad.

Might be the easiest way to play but surely not the most effective.

 

Lose a flag in Battlefield conquest is a setback, lose a flag in Squad and it might spiral into a quick defeat if they're already on your next flag waiting.

Edited by oTec
i can't spell, mmkay

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, oTec said:

 

Can't really compare BF to Squad though. The fact that people made a Project Reality mod already says enough.

 

If people are too lazy to communicate and work together, it has a great impact on your team in Squad.

Might be the easiest way to play but surely not the most effective.

 

Lose a flag in Battlefield conquest is a setback, lose a flag in Squad and it might spiral into a quick defeat if they're already on your next flag waiting.

You're still saying the same thing tho. The game defines player behavior, not it's age.

**most effective AND easiest, like you still need to join squads for kits, etc

Edited by rincewind

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Just now, rincewind said:

You're still saying the same thing tho. The game defines player behavior, not it's age.

I've never talked about age...

 

Squad punishes you alot harder if you mess up vs battlefield, that's the point.

And if people are not playing the objective or giving away an advantage, be it due to incompetence or laziness, you'll lose quick.

 

Battlefield is not so directed on communication and teamplay in order to win a round.

 

 

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Just now, oTec said:

I've never talked about age...

>>PR has just been around alot longer and has alot of people comitted to playing it.

 

Squad punishes you alot harder if you mess up vs battlefield, that's the point.

And if people are not playing the objective or giving away an advantage, be it due to incompetence or laziness, you'll lose quick.

 

Battlefield is not so directed on communication and teamplay in order to win a round.

See highlight.

You're mixing up cause and effect. BF has a set of rules and everyone plays by that set like in any other game. So we're still on "it is game's fault" point.

Yes squad might punish a bit more but that doesn't really matter that much due to the fact that a regular grunt still might have fun having 40:0 K/D at the end, win or lose makes no difference. That is the consequence of weird "neither fish nor fowl" game design overall which tries to copy PR and fails at important details that are making the entire design viable. 

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20 minutes ago, rincewind said:

See highlight.

You're mixing up cause and effect. BF has a set of rules and everyone plays by that set like in any other game. So we're still on "it is game's fault" point.

Yes squad might punish a bit more but that doesn't really matter that much due to the fact that a regular grunt still might have fun having 40:0 K/D at the end, win or lose makes no difference. That is the consequence of weird "neither fish nor fowl" game design overall which tries to copy PR and fails at important details that are making the entire design viable. 

 

Set of rules? If the game highlights "defend this flag" and evryone runs away, it's the game's fault?

 

I'm not defending OWI here or whatever design choices, but can't possibly hold them responsible for people being idiots.

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3 minutes ago, oTec said:

 

Set of rules? If the game highlights "defend this flag" and evryone runs away, it's the game's fault?

Yep. Why would I defend a flag? Boring. I can just rush to the next one, get my share of shoot'em'up there and teleport back to continue.

It is not only about flags. You have all the tools given to you (instead of taken away) to just have constant action at any point of the game. 

Leaving the flag undefended still happens in PR frequently if you didn't notice. But then it's either "walk from main" due to not having any fobs and magical RP's or team effort to regroup and get things right.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, oTec said:

 

Set of rules? If the game highlights "defend this flag" and evryone runs away, it's the game's fault?

 

I'm not defending OWI here or whatever design choices, but can't possibly hold them responsible for people being idiots.

Developers design mechanics -> mechanics determine who plays the game

 

Plain and simple - if it's mostly idiots playing your game, it's because you designed your game for idiots, not because some large roaming band of them randomly decided to give your game a go.

 

And, well... I've tried playing some pubs over the last few days and it ain't looking good for Squad at all. Even servers which were usually strictly moderated seemed to be in disarray. Squad may have more players, but the quality of gameplay is probably the lowest I've seen yet. I've had better rounds when Hilltop on Fool's Road had only 2 bunkers and a bunch of logs, despite all the bells and whistles that have been added to the game since. I could hardly finish a full round before moving on to the next server, with hope that things might be slightly better elsewhere - they weren't.

Edited by MultiSquid

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, MultiSquid said:

Developers design mechanics -> mechanics determine who plays the game

 

Plain and simple - if it's mostly idiots playing your game, it's because you designed your game for idiots, not because some large roaming band of them randomly decided to give your game a go.

I have a story to tell about that :)

Back in 2009-2011 in our russian part of the internet we've had an argument with arma guys (the "real" mil-sim, with formations and stuff)

They didn't like how PR is all about limitations. You can't do this, can't do that, there's flags, etc, so PR was equal to battlefield for them.

But while they've had all the sandbox freedom and realism in their games, they had 1 life per game. And that detail only determined how the game is played in every aspect and who exactly plays it. IIRC only 3-4 communities in the world doing that sort of TvT games.

Idk why it's hard for people to understand the power of game design, maybe this will help. (also with understanding that squad is nowhere near the middle ground it claims to be)

Edited by rincewind

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