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Alpha 15.4 Released

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Still too forgiving imo, but at least it's better than no dead dead at all.

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Posted (edited)

30 secs for a headshot hit with a 50 cal? I thought you would listen to military advisors and not some normie streamer who gets upset when he dies by a headshot instantly. What is even the point of shooting someone in the head. If the buddy next to him can just pick him up in a few seconds.

 

I am fed up with the excuses this game is only a spiritual successor of PR or not final. You clearly have different intentions by now than during the kickstarter campaign where you basically relied on the hopes and dreams of a Project Reality 2. Finally, your backers were the milsim/PR community and now I only read excuses throughout the forums that you never made false hopes. Only to justify your max profiting as a growing game studio.

 

 

 

Edited by blacktea65

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, blacktea65 said:

30 secs for a headshot hit with a 50 cal? I thought you would listen to military advisors and not some normie streamer who gets upset when he dies by a headshot instantly. What is even the point of shooting someone in the head. If the buddy next to him can just pick him up in a few seconds.

 

I am fed up with the excuses this game is only a spiritual successor of PR or not final. You clearly have different intentions by now than during the kickstarter campaign where you basically relied on the hopes and dreams of a Project Reality 2. Finally, your backers were the milsim/PR community and now I only read excuses throughout the forums that you never made false hopes. Only to justify your max profiting as a growing game studio.

 

 

 

No. I'm a pre steam kickstarter backer and think the direction the game is going is great. You don't speak for all backers.

 

Also very tired of being profiled as a casual for liking the direction of the game. I consider the self proclaimed "hardcore" group to be the real casuals.... they are pushing for a game that punishes being aggressive while overly rewarding a boring campy style of gameplay. There is absolutely nothing hardcore about being given a massive advantage for literally camping 1 spot all game, wnich is what the case was before the changes. People that can't adapt to the changes are the people that literally can't aim in a shooter and require mechanics to be put in to level the battlefield and erase the skill spectrum.

Edited by Thr34t

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Leave abandoned vehicles as they are, abandoned. Once helos and commander are in, that will add another option on how to retrieve them. Risky, yes, flying a helo to drop off a crew or driver, but that's the price you pay for f'ing up. If a critical vehicle is lost in enemy territory, the commander can also call in an airstrike to destroy it, and then it'll respawn at main. A costly solution to the problem, but one that should cost the team for losing it. Auto destruction and respawn will just mean that every vic will become a disposable taxi to the players who don't care about tickets. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Thr34t said:

No. I'm a pre steam kickstarter backer and think the direction the game is going is great. You don't speak for all backers.

 

Also very tired of being profiled as a casual for liking the direction of the game. I consider the self proclaimed "hardcore" group to be the real casuals.... they are pushing for a game that punishes being aggressive while overly rewarding a boring campy style of gameplay. There is absolutely nothing hardcore about being given a massive advantage for literally camping 1 spot all game, wnich is what the case was before the changes. People that can't adapt to the changes are the people that literally can't aim in a shooter and require mechanics to be put in to level the battlefield and erase the skill spectrum.

Eh we have to literally camp any kill, even a headshot, in order to confirm it. It is not really rewarding to kill someone anymore, even with a headshot. Nor is it close to unforgiving to get revived after being pierced by a 50 cal.

 

You are correct, I cannot speak for all backers. However, I may speak for a clan which ordered 25+ copies, part of a PR community with several clans which I know preordered too and also have similiar expectations. As I mentioned most of the backers are obviously former PR players which longed for a sequel of Project Reality. I don't know about you but the general consesus was a niche game between Arma and Battlefield.

 

Now Squad is about to lose its unique charcteristiscs and I am tired of the mentality around here to be content with every single change while the game's vision is clearly off the tracks. You know it is called integrity to deliver a product which was promised. The project started off with a dev team consisting of former PR players and military advisors. It was also advertised as such. Noone expected measures like these years later just to please some triggerhappy playerbase which is not interested into tactical, moreover, realistic gameplay and cannot stand walking for 5 minutes without a single bullet being fired. I can already foresee how special and non-casual the gameplay on regular servers is going to be: battlefield like lone wolfs running around with fancy gear getting buddy spawned. The very definition of skill in tactical shooters.

Edited by blacktea65

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19 hours ago, John Wick's Dog said:

Great changes! Buddy rally in a limited capacity to either commander/insurgents/both would be a great change too. One possible way to deal with abandoned vehicles: abandoned vehicles outside of FOB radius blow up after a certain time period. Discourages people from abandoning vehicles and stops the gamey mechanic of holding enemy logis hostage.

 

The last annoying thing to fix is vehicle physics. This is one part of the game where the community is in 100% unison that more traction is needed. I don't care if a 30,000 lb truck may have a hard time making it up a hill IRL, in a game it's annoying AF.

Hmm - I don't know about blowing vehicles. I mean - I thinks it is ok that vehicles can be captured if your team go reckless and lost them.

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Won't be able to test this 15.4 for days, but the new revive mechanic looks very good to me, much better than ever imo. Good balance between instadeath / too forgiving mechanism.

I'd tweak the "standard" headshots to 20-30 secs and heavy caliber/tanks/sniper rifles hits to something like 5-10 sec (in fact I'd like instadeath for those kind of wounds but well... -_-)

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20 hours ago, Nightstalker21 said:

Won't be able to test this 15.4 for days, but the new revive mechanic looks very good to me, much better than ever imo. Good balance between instadeath / too forgiving mechanism.

I'd tweak the "standard" headshots to 20-30 secs and heavy caliber/tanks/sniper rifles hits to something like 5-10 sec (in fact I'd like instadeath for those kind of wounds but well... -_-)

it is... i don't think u can finish bandaging animation, even as medic... it's just that they want to convey info to player that he's been shot by heavy caliber weapon. I mean, in insta-death as before, you couldn't hear audio (or just a start of it if i recall correctly)... you would immediately go to black screen and away from place where u died. Now u can hear chaos few seconds after u die... and hopefully learn to stay away from it next time... kinda cool thing to have it this way

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18 minutes ago, Disco said:

it is... i don't think u can finish bandaging animation, even as medic... it's just that they want to convey info to player that he's been shot by heavy caliber weapon. I mean, in insta-death as before, you couldn't hear audio (or just a start of it if i recall correctly)... you would immediately go to black screen and away from place where u died. Now u can hear chaos few seconds after u die... and hopefully learn to stay away from it next time... kinda cool thing to have it this way

Yeah I had a lot of good matches over the weekend. I'd still like to see instagib parameters dialed up a little harsher but whatever. That said, I'd still like to see the ticket bleed removed permanently from AAS as it has a very detrimental unbalanced feel to it.

 

Prior to ticket bleed many many times I've been in matches where my team was pushed back to our last flag with less than 100 tickets left and we showed initiative and proceeded to steamroll the enemy but you never see this intelligent satisfying gameplay anymore. Just a bunch of despondent incels lamenting the loss already farting around doing parkour at Main.

 

Same with the "Rush Meta", bring it back especially in RAAS man that would be super interesting if you could guess right what was the enemies second flag and then completely ratpack them again like in v9. Good times.

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49 minutes ago, Disco said:

it is... i don't think u can finish bandaging animation, even as medic... it's just that they want to convey info to player that he's been shot by heavy caliber weapon. I mean, in insta-death as before, you couldn't hear audio (or just a start of it if i recall correctly)... you would immediately go to black screen and away from place where u died. Now u can hear chaos few seconds after u die... and hopefully learn to stay away from it next time... kinda cool thing to have it this way

I know (80% playtime as medic) but countdown would then stop at the moment a medic begins to heal you

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26 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Yeah I had a lot of good matches over the weekend. I'd still like to see instagib parameters dialed up a little harsher but whatever. That said, I'd still like to see the ticket bleed removed permanently from AAS as it has a very detrimental unbalanced feel to it.

 

Prior to ticket bleed many many times I've been in matches where my team was pushed back to our last flag with less than 100 tickets left and we showed initiative and proceeded to steamroll the enemy but you never see this intelligent satisfying gameplay anymore. Just a bunch of despondent incels lamenting the loss already farting around doing parkour at Main.

 

Same with the "Rush Meta", bring it back especially in RAAS man that would be super interesting if you could guess right what was the enemies second flag and then completely ratpack them again like in v9. Good times.

Without ticket bleed there are no real consequences for losing all the points and just super FOBing an easy to hold last objective.  You'll almost always burn more tickets on offense rather than defense,  which is why it is balanced this way.

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57 minutes ago, Thr34t said:

Without ticket bleed there are no real consequences for losing all the points and just super FOBing an easy to hold last objective.  You'll almost always burn more tickets on offense rather than defense,  which is why it is balanced this way.

I would certainly agree with you wholeheartedly before the "Buddy Rally" but in my opinion they don't play well with each other. Especially when you consider a vanguard consisting of an SL and one other squad member in a transport truck can effectively spearhead the entire team into the next flag with their magic Star Trek teleportation device. This is ridiculous considering hypothetically 38 players could potentially waterfall into a flag. All the super fob pillow forts in the world won't stop that blitzkrieg.

 

One or the other has to go, get rid of the ticket bleed or buddy rally.

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4 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I would certainly agree with you wholeheartedly before the "Buddy Rally" but in my opinion they don't play well with each other. Especially when you consider a vanguard consisting of an SL and one other squad member in a transport truck can effectively spearhead the entire team into the next flag with their magic Star Trek teleportation device. This is ridiculous considering hypothetically 38 players could potentially waterfall into a flag. All the super fob pillow forts in the world won't stop that blitzkrieg.

 

One or the other has to go, get rid of the ticket bleed or buddy rally.

What would you use to replace ticket bleed?  There needs to be consequences for losing objectives,  otherwise it would be pointless and a waste of tickets to attack any fortified position and we'd get matches where no one wants to attack since it is easier to save tickets by defending. 

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17 minutes ago, Thr34t said:

What would you use to replace ticket bleed?  There needs to be consequences for losing objectives,  otherwise it would be pointless and a waste of tickets to attack any fortified position and we'd get matches where no one wants to attack since it is easier to save tickets by defending. 

"Fortified Position"? Is there even such a thing in Squad? Sandbags and barbed wire get vaporized with a couple grenades, a single person can stomp a bunch of rallies simply by surrounding a compound, a HAB is disabled by a couple of enemies last time I checked and defenders quickly run out of ammunition anyway.

 

So yeah, over the course of the last almost four years I've played the game the ticket win/loss values for AAS flags have changed many times so maybe there's could be some balncing done there.

 

Honestly what fun is it when your entire team throws in the towel at 100 tickets and people start screwing off and others simply disconnect compounding the problem even more?

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

"Fortified Position"? Is there even such a thing in Squad? Sandbags and barbed wire get vaporized with a couple grenades, a single person can stomp a bunch of rallies simply by surrounding a compound, a HAB is disabled by a couple of enemies last time I checked and defenders quickly run out of ammunition anyway.

 

So yeah, over the course of the last almost four years I've played the game the ticket win/loss values for AAS flags have changed many times so maybe there's could be some balncing done there.

 

Honestly what fun is it when your entire team throws in the towel at 100 tickets and people start screwing off and others simply disconnect compounding the problem even more?

So there should be no punishment for a team losing all their objectives and the game should simply be a camp fest where whoever is willing to play like the bigger pussy wins? This takes the skill out of the game because there would be no incentive to attack at all since the strat to win would be to simply give up any objective that is about to be taken and instead just hide and look for cheap kills.

 

Why does the PR crowd want a game with absolutely no skill involved? I swear you guys would be so happy if movespeed was down to turtle speed so aiming skills no longer mattered and whichever team did the least won. I try really hard to understand your point of view, but every time it comes down to "lets not reward people for being good at the game, lets balance it so skill isn't required,  it is fun ro walk for 30 mintues and sing jodies and LARP military" instead of allowing there to be a skill spectrum where smart plays and aggression is rewarded while punishing the players that can't aim worth a shit and need to camp. 

 

Lets just remove tickets and after 2 hours we get a pop up that says "EVERYONE IS A WINNER" and then we'll have a 10 minute participation trophy event where we all sing jodies and pat each other on the back. Because every time I see people wanting to change the direction of the game this is basically what I'm imagining.  We'll also have it say "YOU ARE HARDCORE" since that is a term the casual gaming crowd seems to love.

 

I see you guys saying you want a more punishing system where it is easier to get kills, but overall you seem to want an easier time when playing poorly.

 

There  needs to be an incentive for winning and punishment for giving up objectives.  Period. End rant.

Edited by Thr34t

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SOOOO proud of you guys for making this change.  Regardless of how well this change works out, what matters most is that you have listened to the community and are actually attempting some form of change.  THANK YOU!

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2 hours ago, Nightstalker21 said:

I know (80% playtime as medic) but countdown would then stop at the moment a medic begins to heal you

oh wait... i think u are right! That's kinda lame... i fear that once new players see icon going low, they will rush to downed player... who is already dead and his position is probably not secured. We will see how it will play out after couple of weeks.

 

2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Just a bunch of despondent incels lamenting the loss already farting around doing parkour at Main.

yeah... hate when that happens...

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Just now, Thr34t said:

So there should be no punishment for a team losing all their objectives and the game should simply be a camp fest where whoever is willing to play like the bigger pussy wins? This takes the skill out of the game because there would be no incentive to attack at all since the strat to win would be to simply give up any objective that is about to be taken and instead just hide and look for cheap kills.

 

Why does the PR crowd want a game with absolutely no skill involved? I swear you guys would be so happy if movespeed was down to turtle speed so aiming skills no longer mattered and whichever team did the least won. I try really hard to understand your point of view, but every time it comes down to "lets not reward people for being good at the game, lets balance it so skill isn't required,  it is fun ro walk for 30 mintues and sing jodies and LARP military" instead of allowing there to be a skill spectrum where smart plays and aggression is rewarded while punishing players that can't aim worth a shit and need to camp. 

I must apologize, I've got absolutely nothing to do with PR. Sorry I gave you that perception. Furthermore, my concept of what constitutes realism would be way far past anything that mod ever had.

 

However, I do completely understand that the overall military FPS demographic would never be interested in a truly realistic game of that sort anyway. That said, the current version is a blast to play it just needs a little fine tuning is all.

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33 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I must apologize, I've got absolutely nothing to do with PR. Sorry I gave you that perception. Furthermore, my concept of what constitutes realism would be way far past anything that mod ever had.

 

However, I do completely understand that the overall military FPS demographic would never be interested in a truly realistic game of that sort anyway. That said, the current version is a blast to play it just needs a little fine tuning is all.

Sorry for lumping you into that group.  Recently any post about the game direction has came from them.  I still don't understand your point if view though.  If ticket bleed is removed then there would be no incentive to ever attack an objective since it would make more sense to just camp or defend since it is less risky, thus easier to hold onto tickets. 

 

The only thing I can see is maybe remove ticket bleed for all but last cap AND  give tickets for taking an objective,  otherwise whoever plays safer (hides and camps the most) will always win by default.  It would be frustrating to stomp a team all the way to their main and then lose because they are now at a huge advantage as far as using vehicles and regrouping go. Objectives would be meaningless and people would ignore them and just build super FOBs on the easiest to hold parts of the map.

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1 minute ago, Thr34t said:

Sorry for lumping you into that group.  Recently any post about the game direction has came from them.  I still don't understand your point if view though.  If ticket bleed is removed then there would be no incentive to ever attack an objective since it would make more sense to just camp or defend since it is less risky, thus easier to hold onto tickets. 

 

The only thing I can see is maybe remove ticket bleed for all but last cap AND  give tickets for taking an objective,  otherwise whoever plays safer (hides and camps the most) will always win by default.  It would be frustrating to stomp a team all the way to their main and then lose because they are now at a huge advantage as far as using vehicles and regrouping go. Objectives would be meaningless and people would ignore them and just build super FOBs on the easiest to hold parts of the map.

But wouldn't you agree that 2 players, a transport truck and an Uber Rally waterfalling up to 38 other players onto the point is a bit shall we say "over the top", especially when there's ticket bleed in play?

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Posted (edited)

Ticket bleed was gone for v11 and AAS still basically played the same. Losing a flag costs too many tickets, you can't really lose that many flags and expect to win just by defending.

 

The current bleed system (the center point doesn't count for the purposes of bleed) is an okay compromise because the bigger turtling issue was when one team rushed the center point and then sat on it all game. The underlying rushing issues still remain, but that's a different issue.

 

5 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

But wouldn't you agree that 2 players, a transport truck and an Uber Rally waterfalling up to 38 other players onto the point is a bit shall we say "over the top", especially when there's ticket bleed in play?

If both teams do this, don't they kind of cancel each other out? Chain capping all the flags is a lot easier if there's no enemies there

Edited by Good-Try Greg

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Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, Thr34t said:

Why does the PR crowd want a game with absolutely no skill involved?

I hope i will not start an endless flame rant to each other...

 

There is skill involved in PR but not down to twitch reflexes... There is also that but also something more... in a way, you need to outhink your opponent. Let me give you example:

 

In Squad: you are rushing to to flag. You spotted enemy down the road, some 100m out. You would go into ADS and start shooting. Why wouldn't you, unless your stamina is very low since as soon as you go ADS, you will get shots that will go where you aim your barrel. You can also go for cover but then, you are at risk that he will start to shoot first. So, you are better off to start shooting on sight. There is no point to just send some bullets his way... as single rifleman, i don't think suppression kicks in. So you you need to be precise and quick. What can other guy hope for? If he runs for cover, he is just moving target. His best bet, especially if he's on road (open ground) is to start shooting back. It's down to who will aim pixels better with his mouse... ok.

 

In PR: same situation. You spotted enemy down the road, some 100m out. Now, what you quickly learn in PR is about deviation system. If you don't, you will not hit anything :) You need some 2-5 seconds to stay still before bullets go where you aim (HAT, AT, higher caliber needs more time). And when you think about this, it makes sense. What that system is simulating is lack of solder readiness as in, he needs to ready a gun, get into fire position, take a breath/focus/aim before he press the trigger. Since there is no fear of loosing your life in game, all of this is pretty hard to simulate but it's cleverly done so in PR. All of this is missing in squad currently. And this system is ingenious as in it doesn't take any new key presses or anything else (as in ARMA for example). You just need to wait a bit before you start to shoot. This little thing have a big impact on how firefights are resolved in PR. Let's get back to our two guys on the road. If he starts to shoot immediately as he would in Squad, he can be sure that he will not hit that guy on the other end of barrel. What is best for him is to rush for cover and report target/contact. If squad he's in is any good, they will respond to threat... start base of fire/bounding overwatch/rush enemy/flank/whatever but do together. If he start to shoot down the road, he will do so to suppress enemy and buy some time for teammates to get ready. In PR, suppression is very effective (another great system).

 

Point here is that in PR you need to be more 'tacticool' :) because of all the systems they put in. In Squad currently, you can role play it but essentially just for fun cause twitch aim is just more effective. PR also require to aim properly but also have another layer to gunplay that makes things more fun.

Edited by Disco

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9 hours ago, Disco said:

 

I hope i will not start an endless flame rant to each other...

 

There is skill involved in PR but not down to twitch reflexes... There is also that but also something more... in a way, you need to outhink your opponent. Let me give you example:

 

In Squad: you are rushing to to flag. You spotted enemy down the road, some 100m out. You would go into ADS and start shooting. Why wouldn't you, unless your stamina is very low since as soon as you go ADS, you will get shots that will go where you aim your barrel. You can also go for cover but then, you are at risk that he will start to shoot first. So, you are better off to start shooting on sight. There is no point to just send some bullets his way... as single rifleman, i don't think suppression kicks in. So you you need to be precise and quick. What can other guy hope for? If he runs for cover, he is just moving target. His best bet, especially if he's on road (open ground) is to start shooting back. It's down to who will aim pixels better with his mouse... ok.

 

In PR: same situation. You spotted enemy down the road, some 100m out. Now, what you quickly learn in PR is about deviation system. If you don't, you will not hit anything :) You need some 2-5 seconds to stay still before bullets go where you aim (HAT, AT, higher caliber needs more time). And when you think about this, it makes sense. What that system is simulating is lack of solder readiness as in, he needs to ready a gun, get into fire position, take a breath/focus/aim before he press the trigger. Since there is no fear of loosing your life in game, all of this is pretty hard to simulate but it's cleverly done so in PR. All of this is missing in squad currently. And this system is ingenious as in it doesn't take any new key presses or anything else (as in ARMA for example). You just need to wait a bit before you start to shoot. This little thing have a big impact on how firefights are resolved in PR. Let's get back to our two guys on the road. If he starts to shoot immediately as he would in Squad, he can be sure that he will not hit that guy on the other end of barrel. What is best for him is to rush for cover and report target/contact. If squad he's in is any good, they will respond to threat... start base of fire/bounding overwatch/rush enemy/flank/whatever but do together. If he start to shoot down the road, he will do so to suppress enemy and buy some time for teammates to get ready. In PR, suppression is very effective (another great system).

 

Point here is that in PR you need to be more 'tacticool' :) because of all the systems they put in. In Squad currently, you can role play it but essentially just for fun cause twitch aim is just more effective. PR also require to aim properly but also have another layer to gunplay that makes things more fun.

Thank you for putting my thoughts into words on this topic :3

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